generaLee83 Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 With the expected extreme difficulty in retaining Nate Clements, London Fletcher-Baker and Chris Kelsay and the strong possiblity that Takeo Spikes will be released how does this team even expect to maintain the mediocre defense it had last year? Losing 4 starters? I'm an optimist and I see this team struggling to win 6 games this year. A great draft and a most certain below average free agency hunt is not going to counter the loss of these 4 players.
DeLuca1967 Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 With the expected extreme difficulty in retaining Nate Clements, London Fletcher-Baker and Chris Kelsay and the strong possiblity that Takeo Spikes will be released how does this team even expect to maintain the mediocre defense it had last year? Losing 4 starters? I'm an optimist and I see this team struggling to win 6 games this year. A great draft and a most certain below average free agency hunt is not going to counter the loss of these 4 players. The Bill's only hope is that paying larger sums upfront is attractive to some free agents. The down side is that you are likely to only attract those older players looking to punch out one more big check before they hang them up.
stuckincincy Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 With the expected extreme difficulty in retaining Nate Clements, London Fletcher-Baker and Chris Kelsay and the strong possiblity that Takeo Spikes will be released how does this team even expect to maintain the mediocre defense it had last year? Losing 4 starters? I'm an optimist and I see this team struggling to win 6 games this year. A great draft and a most certain below average free agency hunt is not going to counter the loss of these 4 players. Other teams are in the same boat year after year, but muddle through. Life with free agency...
Steven in MD Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 It is called addition by substraction. If we replace these players will players of similar or better skills for the Bills system, then we are set. I am not saying we will be able to replace them, but I am not too concerned about Kelsay and Spikes as the team played well with out Spikes and has depth at DE. Fletcher is a good MLB, but not a great one, so I think that finding solid MLB is not the issue. Clements will sign his big contract somewhere else, and play like Winfield in Minnesota, so no concern there.
nucci Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 With the expected extreme difficulty in retaining Nate Clements, London Fletcher-Baker and Chris Kelsay and the strong possiblity that Takeo Spikes will be released how does this team even expect to maintain the mediocre defense it had last year? Losing 4 starters? I'm an optimist and I see this team struggling to win 6 games this year. A great draft and a most certain below average free agency hunt is not going to counter the loss of these 4 players. Losing Clements will suck but I did not know this defense was so great that we need to keep everyone from last year.
Ramius Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 I'm confused. According to this roller coaster, spikes sucked all year and was worthless and everyone wanted him cut. Now that there has been mention that he may get cut, we cant go on without him and we're doomed? Also, most people here couldnt see the bills winning more than 3 games last season, and we won 7.
IndyJay1234 Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 We lost 4 starters from last years defense. Milloy Vincent Posey Adams. Seemed we were ok last year.
Orton's Arm Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 We lost 4 starters from last years defense.Milloy Vincent Posey Adams. Seemed we were ok last year. Those guys were too old/dead weight. You could maybe argue the same is true for Fletcher and even Spikes, but it's definitely not the case for Clements or even Kelsay.
2003Contenders Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 We lost 4 starters from last years defense.Milloy Vincent Posey Adams. Seemed we were ok last year. Excellent point about the replacements for those players. Although we are unlikely to find an immediate replacement for Nate, we can live with a bit of a downgrade there (someone like Philly's Hood), provided that we upgrade other areas of the defense, most importantly the DL. Without coming out and saying it, I think the coaches were not as high on Fletcher-Baker as many of us were. It will be interesting to see how they plan on filling his inevitable vacancy. I'm also not convinced that Kelsay is a goner. However, even if he does bolt, I don't see Hargrove as a downgrade. So, maybe I'm just drinking red, white and blue cool aide -- but I am not too worried about losing these players. In the best of all possible worlds, I'd like to keep Nate. However, if ownership is serious about not shelling out large signing bonuses -- and keeping him means that we lose out on upgrading 3-4 other positions, I think we have to wave goodbye. Remember that we are not talking about trying to keep together a world championship defense here. This defense has ranked toward the bottom of the league in each of the last 2 seasons. Thus, no player on that side of the ball should be viewed as a sacred cow.
firstngoal Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 We lost 4 starters from last years defense.Milloy Vincent Posey Adams. Seemed we were ok last year. Milloy and Vincent were well past their prime anyway and Posey was a big bust. Adams wasn't a fit here. They won't be 'OK" this year due to the well documented off-season FA approach and the fact they will be facing a much tougher schedule in 07. IF the Bills go 6-10 next season, consider it a good year!
IndyJay1234 Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 Milloy and Vincent were well past their prime anyway and Posey was a big bust.Adams wasn't a fit here. They won't be 'OK" this year due to the well documented off-season FA approach and the fact they will be facing a much tougher schedule in 07. IF the Bills go 6-10 next season, consider it a good year! Funny.. Colts lose James Thornton Tripplett Simon And somehow won a Superbowl.....
Fan in San Diego Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 It is called addition by substraction. If we replace these players will players of similar or better skills for the Bills system, then we are set. I am not saying we will be able to replace them, but I am not too concerned about Kelsay and Spikes as the team played well with out Spikes and has depth at DE. Fletcher is a good MLB, but not a great one, so I think that finding solid MLB is not the issue. Clements will sign his big contract somewhere else, and play like Winfield in Minnesota, so no concern there. Lets review the four we are losing. 1) London. Marv called him out for not being an attacking MLB. Sounds like Marv has a plan to replace London. I expect to be better at this position. 2) TKO. Marv kind of called out TKO as well. Saying we will review if he can coume back to his former self. Saying that he was sub-par last year and probably wont be back. Sounds like he has a plan here as well. I expect an improvment. 3) Kelsay. He was getting pushed around alot last year. I don't remeber him being an impact player. He should be replaceable. 4) Clements - Was lights out last year. But it was a contract year and Nate magically found another gear. Once he gets his check, he will be back to his old tricks of just enough to get by. Nothing spectacular. Give me a hungry rookie and we will have similar production. Summary, Marv has it under control. We will be better next year.
daquixers_is_back Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 With the expected extreme difficulty in retaining Nate Clements, London Fletcher-Baker and Chris Kelsay and the strong possiblity that Takeo Spikes will be released how does this team even expect to maintain the mediocre defense it had last year? Losing 4 starters? I'm an optimist and I see this team struggling to win 6 games this year. A great draft and a most certain below average free agency hunt is not going to counter the loss of these 4 players. ... and to throw salt in a wound, I could see Clements, Fletcher, and Spikes all having terrific years with their new teams next year. Thats the way it usually works with the Bills luck.
IndyJay1234 Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 ... and to throw salt in a wound, I could see Clements, Fletcher, and Spikes all having terrific years with their new teams next year. Thats the way it usually works with the Bills luck. I dont remember Posey, Milloy, Vincent or Adams making the ProBowl for their new teams either? Let me say something... Fletcher, Spikes, Clements and Kelsay all had 4 years together and guess what.. ZERO PLAYOFF appearences. I am done crying over 4 guys that DID NOT get it done.
IndyJay1234 Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 Listen... At the end of the day the Bills are going to make a huge push for Cato June. This guy is unreal and 27. He is a younger version of London. Kelsay was replaced with Hargrove already. At CB the Bills will use their 1st round pick and it could be a bit of a downgrade. They also have Youboty coming in and he may or may not do something. The Bills also have McCargo coming back and who know what he provides. Last I checked Spikes has not been released so lets not go and jump off the bridge yet with him. I bet he is on this team Opening Day and if he stays healthy great if not he will be a Vincent like victim.... What thay leaves is money for 1 offensive lineman and an upgrade at the 2nd WR spot. It is year two of this coaching staff and year 3 of the JP Losman experiment.... How are we worse off again??
Pyrite Gal Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 With the expected extreme difficulty in retaining Nate Clements, London Fletcher-Baker and Chris Kelsay and the strong possiblity that Takeo Spikes will be released how does this team even expect to maintain the mediocre defense it had last year? Losing 4 starters? I'm an optimist and I see this team struggling to win 6 games this year. A great draft and a most certain below average free agency hunt is not going to counter the loss of these 4 players. For each of these players whom we must replace I think the preference would be that we have at least one candidate to adequately replace them on the roster and also we acquire someone. If we have two candidates on the roster we are in good shape and if we have no candidate on the roster we are in bad shape and need to acquire at least one (though this is dicey as you must count on this player) and probably two candidates to give you the oft needed back-up. My sense of where we are with each of them is: Kelsay: Probably the least worry of these four as we have co-starter Denney in place already and folks seem high on Hargrove as a swing player who can fill the LDE depth chart if necessary. Of our FAs and with our significant cap room, Kelsay is probably the most cheaply resigned of these four. This is probably the loss we could most easily upgrade in replacing him. Fletch: I think this is actually going to be the most difficult replacement issue we have. This is true not because F-B is so great, but because the FA choices at MLB seem fairly limited (KCs Mitchell seems to be about the best available MLB) and this draft appears to be pretty weak at the LB position with no choice being a top 10 pick and potentially going above 15 before the first LB is taken and after struggling pass coverage at the Senior Bowl Denny has even slipped to the second round according to some pundits. Given some talk I've seen which have him getting an $8-10 million bonus for a longer term deal, the smart cash to cap move may be to franchise him as apparently the top 5 average salary is about $7 million and to acquire someone to be trained to take over for him next year as #2 on our depth chart. Clements: Particularly with our decision to adopt a cash to cap accounting method, signing NC makes little sense in terms of making the Bills better. With Samuel getting tagged, the market will likely give NC at least a $16 million bonus and having one player take significantly over half the funds we have for FA is not a good football move. The good news for us is that while the Cover 2 works better with a very good corner like NC, the way we play it does not require a great CB to make it work. NC easily being our best CB was seen last year when opposing OCs chose to pick on McGee to the extent that he ended up getting benched because as best as I could tell he was not reading the miscues of our rookie safeties well enough and would cut off coverage at 15 yards as a CB generally does in a Cover 2, but a good enough CB recognizes when his safeties are out of position and particularly if there is no one coming into his short zone he should recognize this and continue on with the WR running the fly pattern (actually NC seemed to make this error on one TD but McGee made it several times and got benched). The good news again though is that the benching did seem to adjust McGee's attitude and improve his play and by the final 8 games OCs seem to respond by also going after Clements a bit as well. The key for the Bills is that we have three CB slots (LCB, RCB and the nickel) and actually there are 3 possibilities on the roster (though I do not think these players are actually good enough to fill all these roles: McGee- new #1 CB- he played well enough to fill this role in the last 8 games, but his failure in the first 8 makes this a dicey proposition for us. Youbouty- I am comfortable that he is good enough to play the nickel but it will be a stretch for him to be our #2 CB. Greer- Can play the nickel but little chance he is good enough to start. I think if we pick up a second tier FA like Harper, Macklin or RFA Babineaux and one of our folks steps up (Youbouty or if we are able to resign Thomas) I think our talent does not come near to equaling what we had with Clements but should be adequate enough to play CB in a Cover 2. TKO- Some seem to have drawn the conclusion from Marv expressing caution about TKO that he is done and about to be cut. He did not produce last year at the great levels we were used to and I think Marv is right in that he was such a maniac about recovering from the achilles injury that it likely led to other injuries like the hammy pull. However, I think its premature to write him off. Still I think the prudent thing to do would be to acquire another LB who after we tag F-B is in a position to back him up and be trained to take over at MLB. The presence of another eventual starter with the back-ups we have in Ellison and Coy Wire and rehabbing Crowell and TKO would give us 6 LBs with folks like Stamer, Haggan and Manning still on the roster so i do not feel bad about LB at all. The loss of these 4 (3 more likely IMHO) would be a problem but one which is solvable with the roster and resources we have.
firstngoal Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 Funny.. Colts lose James Thornton Tripplett Simon And somehow won a Superbowl..... Uhhhh...Last time I checked they have much more talent than the Bills including a Qb by the name of Peyton Manning. The Bills can't afford to lose 4 starters let alone one. Wow!
daquixers_is_back Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 I dont remember Posey, Milloy, Vincent or Adams making the ProBowl for their new teams either? Let me say something... Fletcher, Spikes, Clements and Kelsay all had 4 years together and guess what.. ZERO PLAYOFF appearences. I am done crying over 4 guys that DID NOT get it done. Pro Bowl = Popularity Yet I was thinking more about Pat Williams, Sam Cowart, Antoine Winfield ... etc ... I know atleast Williams and Winfield are doing well for their new teams. Let me guess ... you were done with Kelly after he lost 2 Super Bowls. If you were a Colts fan, Manning would have been gone after four seasons? Give me a break. You will be taking and throwing out four guys who did not get it done, and replacing them with four guys who are WORSE. What don't you get?
daquixers_is_back Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 Funny.. Colts lose James Thornton Tripplett Simon And somehow won a Superbowl..... This is ridiculous but firstngoal already got to it before I did. The Colts have an amazing offensive line so they can simply plug in a new RB. They have two all-star wide receivers. They have a top 3 all-time QB. They also traded mid-year for McFarland to help their run defense.
firstngoal Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 Listen... At the end of the day the Bills are going to make a huge push for Cato June. This guy is unreal and 27. He is a younger version of London. #1 - Cato June was a huge dissapointment for the Colts in 06 after having a great year in 05. #2 - Cato June is a smallish weak-side backer, not a candidate for London 's MLB job.
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