It's all about oil:

[pdh1]

That's what makes them bomb us, right?

 

Then what say about stories like this?

 

Friendship Express Bombed

 

The pair of explosions happened in two passenger coaches as the Samjhauta Express passed through Panipat, about 80 kilometers (50 miles) north of New Delhi, said Northern Rail spokesman Rakesh Saxena.

 

The Samjhauta Express -- which translates as "Friendship Express" -- runs between India and Pakistan and was established several years ago as officials from the two countries worked to improve relations.

 

Dugal blamed the high death toll on the early hour of the blasts, saying many people were asleep on the train. Most of the people who died were burnt to death.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/02/1...rain/index.html

[yall]

That's what makes them bomb us, right?

 

Then what say about stories like this?

 

Friendship Express Bombed

 

The pair of explosions happened in two passenger coaches as the Samjhauta Express passed through Panipat, about 80 kilometers (50 miles) north of New Delhi, said Northern Rail spokesman Rakesh Saxena.

 

The Samjhauta Express -- which translates as "Friendship Express" -- runs between India and Pakistan and was established several years ago as officials from the two countries worked to improve relations.

 

Dugal blamed the high death toll on the early hour of the blasts, saying many people were asleep on the train. Most of the people who died were burnt to death.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/02/1...rain/index.html

 

We all know that girls schools are shelled with mortars and people are beheaded because of our imperialism and greed for the sticky black stuff.

[RkFast]

If we were only "nicer" to them, this stuff wouldnt happen!

[molson_golden2002]

If we were only "nicer" to them, this stuff wouldnt happen!

Two points:

 

 

1) This thread itself shows the inanity of the "Global War on Terror" idea. It ignores that local conditions drive violence much more than any global situation. FYI, Pakistan and India have been at daggers drawn for many years, and in open conflict on several occasions, since Great Britain carved up the countries on the map--sound familure? In other words, this has nothing to do with the United States

 

2) RK, what do you think we are doing in Baghdad today? It's pretty nice of us putting our soldiers in harms way to try and make these people live together and play nice, isn't it?

[Alaska Darin]

Terrorism has always existed. Doesn't matter what the religion is. The fervor it causes to "do something about it" guarantees it'll go on long into the future.

 

BTW, it is about oil. If there wasn't oil over there, we'd give not a flying crap about Iraq.

[pdh1]

It ignores that local conditions drive violence much more than any global situation.

 

More like bigotry and hatred, I'd say.

Do you think Islamic terrorist types might try some other form of political action other than blowing people up?

 

Blowing up a train full of people that is meant to improve relationship between to countries?

How sweet!!

 

 

If all the volience is the result of US and British foreigh policy, how do you explain the volience in Darfur, Somalia, Indonesia, the Philippines and on going threats against Spain?

If don't see a common thread to all this, just listen to their own speeches and printed propaganda.

 

The main part that oil plays with all this is that it gives thugs in the regions a means to raise money and fund their little bombing mission and train and support their terrorists around the globe.

Without oil money, what would places like Iran and Libya do to support their economies? Not like much innovation in bio-tech or computing has come out the region recently.

[yall]

Terrorism has always existed. Doesn't matter what the religion is. The fervor it causes to "do something about it" guarantees it'll go on long into the future.

 

BTW, it is about oil. If there wasn't oil over there, we'd give not a flying crap about Iraq.

 

Except of course the article is about a train bombing in India. But hey, feel free to make it about Iraq if it makes you happy.

 

And should we or anyone not "do something about it"? We should accept it as a part of modern life, put on the blinders, and say "sh*t happens"? I can't accept that as a reasonable response to a problem that will, in all likelyhood, get worse.

[Alaska Darin]

Except of course the article is about a train bombing in India. But hey, feel free to make it about Iraq if it makes you happy.

I didn't make it about Iraq. You made a statement about oil. Iraq is absolutely, unequivocally about oil. As I said, terrorism has always existed and it likely always will as long as the response is about killing more people.

And should we or anyone not "do something about it"? We should accept it as a part of modern life, put on the blinders, and say "sh*t happens"? I can't accept that as a reasonable response to a problem that will, in all likelyhood, get worse.

I fail to see how killing a bunch of people is going to make a bunch of other people not want to kill you. That doesn't mean ignore and the problem will go away. At the end of the day, US foriegn policy over the last 40 years has led to increased terrorism against us and our interests, not less of it. Continuing those same policies will not likely lead to a different conclusion.

[TPS]

That's what makes them bomb us, right?

 

Then what say about stories like this?

 

Friendship Express Bombed

 

Apparently most of those killed and injured are Pakistani, who are mainly Muslims, and it was probably done by Indians (although it doesn't say), who are mainly Hindu. Who is the "us" you are referring to?

 

Are Muslims "us" now? Are Hindus our enemy now?

 

I'm confused...

[pdh1]

I didn't make it about Iraq. You made a statement about oil. Iraq is absolutely, unequivocally about oil. As I said, terrorism has always existed and it likely always will as long as the response is about killing people.

 

I fail to see how killing a bunch of people is going to make a bunch of other people not want to kill you. That doesn't mean ignore and the problem will go away. At the end of the day, US foriegn policy over the last 40 years has led to increased terrorism against us and our interests, not less of it. Continuing those same policies will not likely lead to a different conclusion.

 

 

 

Again I ask, it the terrorist are only committing these acts as result of US foreign policy, why are there similar attacks and plots in areas were the US has little or no presence?

Please explain

 

France:

Twenty five people were convicted by a French court yesterday of plotting Islamist terrorist attacks in France in 2001-02, including possibly a gas attack on the Eiffel Tower.

 

The leaders of a so-called "Chechen" network among Algerian radicals were given jail sentences of nine and ten years. Others were given much lighter sentences than the prosecution had requested. Two people were acquitted.

 

A seven-week trial which ended on 12 May uncovered many holes in the prosecution case and failed to establish exactly what kind of terrorist attack was planned.

 

There were accusations that some form of gas attack, possibly using ricin, was contemplated and that targets included the Eiffel Tower, the commercial centre at Les Halles in central Paris and the Russian embassy in Paris.

 

Again I ask, it the terrorist are only committing these acts as result of US foreign policy, why are there similar attacks and plots in areas were the US has little or no presence?

 

Please explain:

 

Indonesia

JAKARTA (Reuters) - An Indonesian Muslim man was accused in court on Wednesday of being the mastermind behind the beheading of three Christian girls last year in Central Sulawesi, a charge that could lead to death by firing squad if proven.

 

The attack took place in the Poso region of Central Sulawesi province, an area where deadly Muslim-Christian clashes broke out from 1998 to 2001, and where simmering violence continues. The trial was moved to Jakarta on security fears.

 

Eygpt

DAHAB, Egypt, April 25 -- On Tuesday, professional divers pulled a pair of indistinct human limbs and a severed head from the offshore rainbow-colored reefs where tourists customarily linger to gaze down at shimmering fish in the Red Sea.

 

The divers' discovery was part of the sad cleanup here a day after three bombs killed at least 18 people, 12 of them Egyptian. The blasts wounded 85 people on a busy holiday that is traditionally marked in Egypt by picnics and strolls outside. In a place where tourism is a major source of livelihood, police were quick to announce they had arrested at least 10 suspects and detained 70 other people for questioning. Three of the suspects were Egyptians apprehended while leaving town shortly after the blasts, police said

[yall]

I didn't make it about Iraq. You made a statement about oil. Iraq is absolutely, unequivocally about oil. As I said, terrorism has always existed and it likely always will as long as the response is about killing more people.

 

I fail to see how killing a bunch of people is going to make a bunch of other people not want to kill you. That doesn't mean ignore and the problem will go away. At the end of the day, US foriegn policy over the last 40 years has led to increased terrorism against us and our interests, not less of it. Continuing those same policies will not likely lead to a different conclusion.

 

I didn't so much make a statement about oil as I was agreeing that this latest attack by Islamic fundies in INDIA had nothing to do with oil. Try going back and reading again....

[Alaska Darin]

Again I ask, it the terrorist are only committing these acts as result of US foreign policy, why are there similar attacks and plots in areas were the US has little or no presence?

Please explain

 

France:

Twenty five people were convicted by a French court yesterday of plotting Islamist terrorist attacks in France in 2001-02, including possibly a gas attack on the Eiffel Tower.

 

The leaders of a so-called "Chechen" network among Algerian radicals were given jail sentences of nine and ten years. Others were given much lighter sentences than the prosecution had requested. Two people were acquitted.

 

A seven-week trial which ended on 12 May uncovered many holes in the prosecution case and failed to establish exactly what kind of terrorist attack was planned.

 

There were accusations that some form of gas attack, possibly using ricin, was contemplated and that targets included the Eiffel Tower, the commercial centre at Les Halles in central Paris and the Russian embassy in Paris.

 

Again I ask, it the terrorist are only committing these acts as result of US foreign policy, why are there similar attacks and plots in areas were the US has little or no presence?

 

Please explain:

 

Indonesia

JAKARTA (Reuters) - An Indonesian Muslim man was accused in court on Wednesday of being the mastermind behind the beheading of three Christian girls last year in Central Sulawesi, a charge that could lead to death by firing squad if proven.

 

The attack took place in the Poso region of Central Sulawesi province, an area where deadly Muslim-Christian clashes broke out from 1998 to 2001, and where simmering violence continues. The trial was moved to Jakarta on security fears.

 

Eygpt

DAHAB, Egypt, April 25 -- On Tuesday, professional divers pulled a pair of indistinct human limbs and a severed head from the offshore rainbow-colored reefs where tourists customarily linger to gaze down at shimmering fish in the Red Sea.

 

The divers' discovery was part of the sad cleanup here a day after three bombs killed at least 18 people, 12 of them Egyptian. The blasts wounded 85 people on a busy holiday that is traditionally marked in Egypt by picnics and strolls outside. In a place where tourism is a major source of livelihood, police were quick to announce they had arrested at least 10 suspects and detained 70 other people for questioning. Three of the suspects were Egyptians apprehended while leaving town shortly after the blasts, police said

Gee, I wonder why intelligent discussion is dead? What part of terrorism is everywhere/always has been were you having a problem with? Should I now link to a bunch of non-Muslim terrorist acts over the past 5 years to show that not all acts of terrorism are in the name of that religion?

 

We live in the United States. Our foriegn policy at times pisses off some people who are more than willing to enlist people to commit terrorist acts. Are you actually debating this point? Do you think that pointing out terrorist acts against other countries by radical religious extremists (which we are in no short supply of here, either) somehow validates continuing to do these things?

 

Does that mean every terrorist act is a direct result of US Foriegn policy? Uh, no. I'm not sure why you've brought that up, as I've never inferred it in the least. Do you Republican apologists EVER think anything through? Have you ever been to any part of Asia or Africa?

[Alaska Darin]

I didn't so much make a statement about oil as I was agreeing that this latest attack by Islamic fundies in INDIA had nothing to do with oil. Try going back and reading again....

So? That doesn't change the fact that Iraq is all about oil, as anyone with half a friggin' clue should know. The left is being stupid when they say "no blood for oil", just as the right is being stupid by saying "it's not about oil." You're both ridiculously full of crap.

[OCinBuffalo]

Two points:

1) This thread itself shows the inanity of the "Global War on Terror" idea. It ignores that local conditions drive violence much more than any global situation. FYI, Pakistan and India have been at daggers drawn for many years, and in open conflict on several occasions, since Great Britain carved up the countries on the map--sound familure? In other words, this has nothing to do with the United States

 

2) RK, what do you think we are doing in Baghdad today? It's pretty nice of us putting our soldiers in harms way to try and make these people live together and play nice, isn't it?

Thanks genius. I love it when we are spoken down to by the phony "intellectuals" on this board. WE KNOW it's about oil. What you never hear is WHY it's about oil. It's not the oil itself - we only get about 15-20% of our oil from the Middle East. I don't have time to get you the supporting data, but trust me, that's all we get from them. It's about the OIL MARKET. Yes that's right I said MARKET. This market is a leading economic indicator that drives just about every country in the world's economic forecasts.

 

If you have to ask why that is important, well never mind - I'll make it easy for you: banks set their loan rates on multiple indicators. Each is given various weights. The OIL MARKET is one of these indicators and it receives a heavy weight - this means it matters a lot. If the OIL MARKET is projected to raise prices, that means that companies in general will have to spend more money on doing business. This means that some may fail/be less able to pay back loans. This means more RISK for the bank. SO, what does the bank do? IT RAISES ITS RATES. It's just like hedging a bet. The more potential bad bets you make the more likely you are to hedge them.

 

Have you ever tried to work with an investment banker when rates go up? Well I have. It's not a pretty picture and it therefore stops/impedes me from doing what I want to do. This slows my company's progress down. This means I wouldn't hire people as fast as I want. On a grand scale this would happen to lots of guys/girls just like me - which means the country slows down and it also means that the so-called "little guy" or "working family"(as if I don't work my ass off every day) doesn't get a raise, a job, extra benefits, etc. Again, on a grand scale, unemployment goes up, inflation rises - basically we have the 1970's under Carter all over again. Telling a farmer in Iowa that he has to sell his family's land because the bank rates are too high for him to cover his mortgage is ALSO ABOUT OIL.

Now, if you are attempting to take the moral high ground here by saying "It's all about the oil, man, and Bush is an oil guy", etc., please know that while you take it you are doing so to the detriment of the lowest level workers in this country. "The Rich" can pay $3-4 dollars a gallon for gas. Can the guy who works at Wal-Mart? Telling a nurse aid in New Jersey who drives a 1/2 to work every day that she now has to pay $4 a gallon is ALSO ABOUT OIL.

Maybe you should sign up to tell the farmer and the nurse aid the good news: that their lives are gonna drastically change for the worse but it's OK since you get to claim the, now meaningless, moral high ground.

 

And in reply to "This is not a GLOBAL problem": you shouldn't talk about things you don't understand. Some banks are now global. All banks, domestic and global must compete in the same markets. Global situations affect global banks, but since they are in the same market, they affect domestic/local banks as well due to competition. Q.E.D. The OIL MARKET affects us all, every day, all the time - IT HAS EVERY THING TO DO WITH THE UNITED STATES. Molson2002 = Jackass.

 

Bottom Line: This "all about oil argument" is an emotional boondoggle that is designed to fool:

 

1. those with the intellectual capacity of a six year old

2. those who are willing to be fooled because it serves their purposes

3. those who cannot see beyond some simplistic ideological constructs because doing so would call those constructs into question(i.e. the brainwashed)

4. Scientologists - hey this kind of bait and switch is right up their alley!

[pdh1]

Gee, I wonder why intelligent discussion is dead? What part of terrorism is everywhere/always has been were you having a problem with? Should I now link to a bunch of non-Muslim terrorist acts over the past 5 years to show that not all acts of terrorism are in the name of that religion?

 

Does that mean every terrorist act is a direct result of US Foriegn policy? Uh, no. I'm not sure why you've brought that up, as I've never inferred it in the least. Do you Republican apologists EVER think anything through? Have you ever been to any part of Asia or Africa?

 

Based on your response, you may have a point about intelligent discussion being dead. Thanks for supplying the example.

 

There is a big difference between terrorist acts that local events and not spread to the world in general, and global network determined to impose its will on the rest of the globe.

 

Take for example the IRA in Ireland or the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka. Both have done some awful things, but aren't much of threat to the rest of the world.

Their goals and ambitions are localized.

 

 

Not so with

Al Qaeda .

 

Their second in command often talks about Democracy itself as the enemy of Islam, not just the United States government.

 

The president of Iran said his goal was spread Islam.

 

The radical cleric in London have stated their goal is to rule by Islamic Law over England.

 

etc, etc, etc....

 

So am afraid when you say "At the end of the day, US foriegn policy over the last 40 years has led to increased terrorism against us and our interests, not less of it. Continuing those same policies will not likely lead to a different conclusion" you are either blind or ignorant.

 

These yahoos will find any reason to kill and terrorize, be it a law against wearing a head scarf, a cartoon, or quote from the 14 century taken out of context.

[yall]

So? That doesn't change the fact that Iraq is all about oil, as anyone with half a friggin' clue should know. The left is being stupid when they say "no blood for oil", just as the right is being stupid by saying "it's not about oil." You're both ridiculously full of crap.

 

So what if Iraq is "all about the oil". This thread isn't about Iraq. In fact the word wasn't used in this thread until you popped in...

 

The OP was making a point about the simplistic notion of terrorism by islamic fundies being related to oil. Then you came in ranting about Iraq and calling people stupid.

 

Yeah, intelligent discourse my a$$...

[X. Benedict]

Based on your response, you may have a point about intelligent discussion being dead. Thanks for supplying the example.

 

There is a big difference between terrorist acts that local events and not spread to the world in general, and global network determined to impose its will on the rest of the globe.

 

Not much.

 

Terrorism is a tactic - not a strategy, and it is used for discrete goals.

 

Even if you are part of a global network, terrorism is of limited utility for any organization

and is always a weapon of weakness.

 

Tactically - if you use terrorism, by definition you have a weak hand.

 

Even if an organization is globally networked, it makes little difference, if it needs to use terrorism

its global ambitions or its ideology are really of little concern beyond the discrete events of terror.

[PastaJoe]

BTW, it is about oil. If there wasn't oil over there, we'd give not a flying crap about Iraq.

 

That is the truth, without oil the Middle East would be treated like Africa.

[Alaska Darin]

Based on your response, you may have a point about intelligent discussion being dead. Thanks for supplying the example.

 

There is a big difference between terrorist acts that local events and not spread to the world in general, and global network determined to impose its will on the rest of the globe.

 

Take for example the IRA in Ireland or the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka. Both have done some awful things, but aren't much of threat to the rest of the world.

Their goals and ambitions are localized.

Not so with

Al Qaeda .

 

Their second in command often talks about Democracy itself as the enemy of Islam, not just the United States government.

 

The president of Iran said his goal was spread Islam.

 

The radical cleric in London have stated their goal is to rule by Islamic Law over England.

 

etc, etc, etc....

 

So am afraid when you say "At the end of the day, US foriegn policy over the last 40 years has led to increased terrorism against us and our interests, not less of it. Continuing those same policies will not likely lead to a different conclusion" you are either blind or ignorant.

 

These yahoos will find any reason to kill and terrorize, be it a law against wearing a head scarf, a cartoon, or quote from the 14 century taken out of context.

Oooh. The righty fear mongering machine is at full RPM. It's probably time to declare martial law and start the internment camps. THEY'RE COMING! What website did we get these gems from?

 

I'm sure we're gonna be speaking Arabic too. No way we're stopping the fundamentalist Islamic war machine. Time to get the Rosetta Stone cranked up. Their leaders are gonna need interpreters. Our very way of life (you know, the one we're currently voluntarily giving up to Homeland Security) is at stake!

 

I wish Al Qaeda wouldn't set such high goals. It just makes them seem way more competent. IF YOU GUYS DON'T CONVERT, WE'RE GONNA BLOW UP SOME MORE OF YOUR CRAP!

 

I'm just shaking.

[pdh1]

What website did we get these gems from?

 

 

They come from the people themselves, so I guess we shouldn't believe they mean what they say?

 

TIMES ONLINE: IRAN’S ultra-conservative President, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, threw down a challenge to the West yesterday by declaring that his election victory marked the dawn of a new Islamic revolution that would spread around the world.

 

“Thanks to the blood of the martyrs, a new Islamic revolution has arisen and the Islamic revolution of 1384 [the current Iranian year] will, if God wills, cut off the roots of injustice in the world,” he said. “The wave of the Islamic revolution will soon reach the entire world.”...