why we are going to re sign nate clements..

[Dibs]

In addressing the previous bunch of posts......

 

The $4mil that was bandied around means the potential difference between a star LB & a run-of-the-mill LB. Consider that $4mil went to London last season.....& now is happy cap space. I would not be surprised at all if we target one of the better LBs in FA.

 

The actual cap numbers may not be so much the issue......consider signing NC. Even though we could structure his contract to count say....$4mil under this years cap, we may well be up for a $12mil-$18mil signing bonus. We need to replace London(or even if re-signing) who will have a decent signing bonus.....I'm personally expecting a top FA OG who will also command a goodly sized bonus. There will be an immense amount of cash to find & if faced with the option of giving a big up front bonus to NC or to an OG, I feel the OG will win.

 

....also.....one of the reasons we have such a large amount of cap space is that we don't actually have many star player & those with potential are still in their rookie contracts. JPL, LE, WM(assuming we keep him) are all cheap. Peters looks probable to improve well beyond his contract level within a couple of years.....as does Schobel. If there is a disproportionate amount of money secured in the secondary(Whitner has a decent sized contract & McGee is well recompensed), we may well have to lose a future STAR who is more important to the team than a top cover corner is.

 

In the end, this is the FA era. Top player leave teams every single year.....teams that have lots of cap room which then use the money for different FAs. It is simply how things work now. When a player becomes a FA.....he often moves on due to some team who has been without a top CB/LB/QB/RBetc/etc/etc overvaluing the importance of the player for their team....or subsequently.....the existing team undervaluing it due to having not had to do without.

 

Finally, CBs are one of the BIG team changing positions for some reason. Every year there is one or two elite CBs hitting the market & getting massive contracts. I cannot see NC not being offered a ludicrous amount for his services.

 

Not too much longer to wait now to find out what actually will happen.

[Bill from NYC]

This is a great post. To both of your points...was Nate all that good in 05? And, do we need him to be who he is, WHILE EATING UP ALL OUR CAP ROOM, in a Tampa 2? I say, absolutely not. Safeties are the key in the Tampa 2...not corners....

 

It was good, but not great. Teams are not allowed to speak to UFAs nor their agents until the signing period begins.

[Bill from NYC]

I personally won't be unhappy if we keep NC.....he's a top player......I just see that there is more logical reasons to let him walk.

 

We will see. Remember, the Bills have a ton of cap space, and Nate is a very good player.

 

If you think that corners in a Cover-2 are less important thans they are in conventional formations, how will you feel if Marv drafts one in the first round? Will you view this as a mistake, or a smart move because Marv did it?

 

I think that any serious Bills Fan can plainly see what is wrong with our football team. We need to improve in the basics, which consist of running the football, and preventing the opposing team from running the football. It really is that simple, and you saw this play itself out yet again in the Superbowl.

 

If we lose Nate and go after another first day corner (or 2), we will officially be a franchise that is a dog chasing it's tail. If we keep Nate (admittedly a longshot) and Marv can resist using our best picks on defensive backs once again, I will go out on a limb and state that I think that the Bills stand a chance of winning the division.

 

Again, we will see.

[DrDawkinstein]

In addressing the previous bunch of posts......

 

The $4mil that was bandied around means the potential difference between a star LB & a run-of-the-mill LB. Consider that $4mil went to London last season.....& now is happy cap space. I would not be surprised at all if we target one of the better LBs in FA.

 

The actual cap numbers may not be so much the issue......consider signing NC. Even though we could structure his contract to count say....$4mil under this years cap, we may well be up for a $12mil-$18mil signing bonus. We need to replace London(or even if re-signing) who will have a decent signing bonus.....I'm personally expecting a top FA OG who will also command a goodly sized bonus. There will be an immense amount of cash to find & if faced with the option of giving a big up front bonus to NC or to an OG, I feel the OG will win.

 

....also.....one of the reasons we have such a large amount of cap space is that we don't actually have many star player & those with potential are still in their rookie contracts. JPL, LE, WM(assuming we keep him) are all cheap. Peters looks probable to improve well beyond his contract level within a couple of years.....as does Schobel. If there is a disproportionate amount of money secured in the secondary(Whitner has a decent sized contract & McGee is well recompensed), we may well have to lose a future STAR who is more important to the team than a top cover corner is.

 

In the end, this is the FA era. Top player leave teams every single year.....teams that have lots of cap room which then use the money for different FAs. It is simply how things work now. When a player becomes a FA.....he often moves on due to some team who has been without a top CB/LB/QB/RBetc/etc/etc overvaluing the importance of the player for their team....or subsequently.....the existing team undervaluing it due to having not had to do without.

 

Finally, CBs are one of the BIG team changing positions for some reason. Every year there is one or two elite CBs hitting the market & getting massive contracts. I cannot see NC not being offered a ludicrous amount for his services.

 

Not too much longer to wait now to find out what actually will happen.

 

 

i hear what youre saying, and there isnt much to disagree with, BUT since its the offseason ill play a little devil to your reasoning:

 

considering what you are saying about all of our young talent still under cheap contracts, wouldnt NOW be the time then to try to ink our young guys AND our top-talent veterans to big contracts? considering we have all the cap room now?

 

that way we have a solid core of a team all of which will be in the cheaper stages of their contracts for the next 3(or so) years. THEN thru smart drafting we can pick guys to replace people who will end up being cap-casualties and still hold on to certain players. the Bills would be a winning team, and the front office would be back in the drivers seat to pick and choose who has performed and deserves to play out their contracts and who will get ct and/or traded.

 

i feel so strongly about this NC issue because i feel the Bills are truly on the verge of being able to take the division, get some winning experience under our belts and make a strong run for the next few years.

 

Denver is a prime example of what im talking about. they have the highest paid CB, big name LBs, big name DLs, big name OLs, Plummer AND a young QB that theyre going to have to pay, a bunch of RBs... and while they havent made it to the big one yet, im pretty sure any Bills fan wouldve happily traded our past few seasons for the opportunity to be knocked out of the playoffs early.

 

SOMEONE is going to sign NC. if its a team that is already playoff bound, then i ask HOW can they have all these top-quality players and be able to sign him and we cant? and if its a team that is considered one of the lesser teams in the league then i ask why are they willing to sign him with all their other holes and we arent?

[truth on hold]

ok 1 thing we all know is that we have the money to use.. clements said he wants to be one of the top paid cb's in the league.. well were gonna give him that.. i know what u guyz are thinking ... with our past moves in the last couple of years it wouldnt make sense for mr wilson to want to resign but we havent had a lot of money like this in a while .. wilson isnt going to let it just sit there.. he is going to make moves and smart.. he has the sense that this team i up and coming and going to get alot better.. this it wats going to happen were going to resign clements , get cato june and leanord davis from free agency.. and draft amobi okoya levy and wilson are old but still very intelligent and should know how to handle this situation.. he didnt argue have the small market team not getting and cap space for no reason.. he will make the right decisions and we are going to improve tremendoulsy next year.. LETS GO BILLS!..

certainly be good to keep him but if dan snyder or jerry jones etc want to blow a bunch of money on the guy and overpay, you shouldnt stop them and you cant blame clements. could be another antoine winfield anyway where bills were railed for letting him leave and now he plays on one of the worst pass defense teams in history in minnesota. looking at snyder's other FA acquisition busts while in DC like Randle El, John Hall, Lavernes Coles, Mark Brunell, etc etc ... all I can say is let skins have him.

 

let's use the money to bolster the pass rush, which takes pressure off the secondary anyway.

[jahnyc]

Nate needs to be re-signed. As Bill from NYC noted, we cannot continue to be the dog chasing its tail (which we would be if Clements leaves and we draft another cb in the first round of the draft). The Bills were a little better than anticipated last year, and there is some hope for next season and the forseeable future. But to continue to improve, the team needs to stop being in the position of having to fill major holes each offseason and instead focus on upgrading the roster and developing depth. If the Bills lose Clements, Fletcher, and Kelsay, there is little chance that between free agency and the draft that the Bills will be able to find replacements or upgrade cb, middle lb, guards, te, right tackle, dt, fb, and wr (a true number 2).

 

A couple of other points:

 

1. If the Bills don't re-sign Clements, it does not guarantee that they will use the money elsewhere (i.e., guard).

2. An average to above average free agent cb will cost at least $5 million per year.

3. A cb drafted with the number 12 pick in the draft will end up costing the Bills a lot of money in terms of bonus and base salary.

4. The quality of free agents seems to decline each year, because most teams are using cap money to re-sign their own players (Fletcher, Clements and Kelsay will be among the top free agents available this year).

[JAMIEBUF12]

i think if we resign nate it will show other potential free agents buffalo takes care of their own and that we are serious about winning a superbowl.go bills in"07

[Bills Fan888]

ive talked about THAT route recently as well. its not a LAW that contracts have to be back-loaded. but it may allow us to sign some FA vets to short contracts (3 years) now and pay them while saving money on Nate until later when we do what EVERY other team does and dump him as a cap casualty.

 

basically, i think we've decided that its DEFINITELY MORE THAN POSSIBLE to re-sign Nate and not tie up all of our resources on him. agreed?

 

even if we do sign him to a back loaded contract and kept him for the next 3 seasons. we wouldnt be paying that much and could possibly trade him for a 2nd round pick( the only reason i dont say 1st is that teams wouldnt be thrilled with taking on his contract). and that way we can get 3 great more years AND a 2nd round pick out of him, instead of what we'll get if he walks, which is nothing. now THAT is value!!!!

I agree and think Marv and co. will get at least some value from him.

[obie_wan]

We will see. Remember, the Bills have a ton of cap space, and Nate is a very good player.

 

If you think that corners in a Cover-2 are less important thans they are in conventional formations, how will you feel if Marv drafts one in the first round? Will you view this as a mistake, or a smart move because Marv did it?

 

I think that any serious Bills Fan can plainly see what is wrong with our football team. We need to improve in the basics, which consist of running the football, and preventing the opposing team from running the football. It really is that simple, and you saw this play itself out yet again in the Superbowl.

 

If we lose Nate and go after another first day corner (or 2), we will officially be a franchise that is a dog chasing it's tail. If we keep Nate (admittedly a longshot) and Marv can resist using our best picks on defensive backs once again, I will go out on a limb and state that I think that the Bills stand a chance of winning the division.

 

Again, we will see.

 

If the Bills don't sign Nate, they should go hard after Adalius Thompson to replace Fletcher in the middle.

 

This money may be better spent/

[Dibs]

If you think that corners in a Cover-2 are less important thans they are in conventional formations, how will you feel if Marv drafts one in the first round? Will you view this as a mistake, or a smart move because Marv did it?

Neither.

I won't be happy.....but I'll wait & see how the decision pans out(I'm not one to think that there is only ever one solution).

I'd never think something is a smart move because Marv did it. I think Marv is great but he's human & quite falable(& luck plays a HUGE role in the draft). I wonder why you assume that if people like Marv.....& like what he did in his first draft.....that they only did so due to their personal biases towards the man & not due to the results.

 

I think that any serious Bills Fan can plainly see what is wrong with our football team. We need to improve in the basics, which consist of running the football, and preventing the opposing team from running the football. It really is that simple, and you saw this play itself out yet again in the Superbowl.

I think you are totally wrong here. I see many serious Bills Fan that disagree.....not myself....I agree wholeheartedly but.....there are many good fans, good football brains, etc, etc who just don't(for whatever reasons) see things the same way.

 

If we lose Nate and go after another first day corner (or 2), we will officially be a franchise that is a dog chasing it's tail. If we keep Nate (admittedly a longshot) and Marv can resist using our best picks on defensive backs once again, I will go out on a limb and state that I think that the Bills stand a chance of winning the division.

You say 1st day corner......I'd have no problem with a 3rd round pick on a CB. A 1st round pick I'd be unhappy with.

My reasons for this is that.....based on historical averages.....I really don't expect any of the draftees to 'make it'. If they do it's a bonus, but I don't count on our....say....2nd rounder helping in a position of need(even a few years after drafting). The position our 3rd rounder is used on makes no difference in 70%+(???) cases since the player will bust.

 

I'm actually looking at things opposite to you now(in regards to NC)......that is, I'm feeling we'll have more chance to make the playoffs without him, than with him. I see that the signing bonus he will demand will equal the signing bonus needed for both an OG & LB.

Also, I don't believe that we will be spending our 1st round pick on a CB to replace NC. I really don't see why this is the natural progression. Many, many teams don't follow that path after losing their STAR CB.....& many, many teams simply do without a STAR CB(cover 2 style especially).

 

Simply, it makes more sense to me that the resources be spent on OGs, LBs, DT, TE rather than NC.

[Dibs]

considering what you are saying about all of our young talent still under cheap contracts, wouldnt NOW be the time then to try to ink our young guys AND our top-talent veterans to big contracts? considering we have all the cap room now?

I totally agree.

Signing the young guys now makes great sense(to me).

You lock them up early.....they are very happy with the pay increase.....& down the track you actually save some money if they become better than their contracts(again).

Even more reason though that we don't commit the resources to NC.

 

Denver is a prime example of what im talking about. they have the highest paid CB, big name LBs, big name DLs, big name OLs, Plummer AND a young QB that theyre going to have to pay, a bunch of RBs... and while they havent made it to the big one yet, im pretty sure any Bills fan wouldve happily traded our past few seasons for the opportunity to be knocked out of the playoffs early.

I feel sorry for Denver. They have an entire team.....but no QB. By the time(more than likely) that Cutler can(if he ever can) become a top QB, thier stars will be old or gone via FA. A bit like we were with Johnson/Flutie.....talented team, not good enough at QB.

 

SOMEONE is going to sign NC. if its a team that is already playoff bound, then i ask HOW can they have all these top-quality players and be able to sign him and we cant? and if its a team that is considered one of the lesser teams in the league then i ask why are they willing to sign him with all their other holes and we arent?

I covered all of this in earlier posts.

[Bill from NYC]

I'm actually looking at things opposite to you now(in regards to NC)......that is, I'm feeling we'll have more chance to make the playoffs without him, than with him. I see that the signing bonus he will demand will equal the signing bonus needed for both an OG & LB.

 

We are not as opposite as you think.

 

Were it up to me, I would strongly......VERY strongly prefer that the Bills sign Steinbach if given a choice between him and Nate. A left side consisting of Peters and Steinbach would improve the offense in every possible way. I even make the case that they would even take pressure off of the defense.

 

As for the size of the bonuses, I am not so sure. Steinbach is going to command (and receive) a gigantic contract. Initially it will seem excessive, but the cap keeps growing and it will not be so bad in a few years. That is the way free agency has always worked.

 

After the free agent signing period and the draft, we will know whether or not Marv agrees with you and me. We will see if he commits to blocking and stopping the run, or continues the ugly, losing tradition of drafting 1st round corners and watching them walk away.

 

By the way, thanks for the dialogue. Your posts are always well thought, and do exude true enthusiasm for the Buffalo Bills Football Team. I too am a fanatical fan. I think that this football team really can win, but not until we are strong enough to beat up our opponents on the line of scrimage in the inclement weather, which includes cold temps, snow, and monster winds.

If Marv can address these glaring needs, I will be his biggest fan. If not, we are not going to win many games. All we can do is hope.

[DrDawkinstein]

We are not as opposite as you think.

 

Were it up to me, I would strongly......VERY strongly prefer that the Bills sign Steinbach if given a choice between him and Nate. A left side consisting of Peters and Steinbach would improve the offense in every possible way. I even make the case that they would even take pressure off of the defense.

 

As for the size of the bonuses, I am not so sure. Steinbach is going to command (and receive) a gigantic contract. Initially it will seem excessive, but the cap keeps growing and it will not be so bad in a few years. That is the way free agency has always worked.

 

After the free agent signing period and the draft, we will know whether or not Marv agrees with you and me. We will see if he commits to blocking and stopping the run, or continues the ugly, losing tradition of drafting 1st round corners and watching them walk away.

 

By the way, thanks for the dialogue. Your posts are always well thought, and do exude true enthusiasm for the Buffalo Bills Football Team. I too am a fanatical fan. I think that this football team really can win, but not until we are strong enough to beat up our opponents on the line of scrimage in the inclement weather, which includes cold temps, snow, and monster winds.

If Marv can address these glaring needs, I will be his biggest fan. If not, we are not going to win many games. All we can do is hope.

 

 

i agree with this ENTIRE post on all points whether about football, this thread, or the posters contributing to it.

[Dibs]

If Marv can address these glaring needs, I will be his biggest fan. If not, we are not going to win many games. All we can do is hope.

[Mike formerly from Florida]

ok 1 thing we all know is that we have the money to use.. clements said he wants to be one of the top paid cb's in the league.. well were gonna give him that.. i know what u guyz are thinking ... with our past moves in the last couple of years it wouldnt make sense for mr wilson to want to resign but we havent had a lot of money like this in a while .. wilson isnt going to let it just sit there.. he is going to make moves and smart.. he has the sense that this team i up and coming and going to get alot better.. this it wats going to happen were going to resign clements , get cato june and leanord davis from free agency.. and draft amobi okoya levy and wilson are old but still very intelligent and should know how to handle this situation.. he didnt argue have the small market team not getting and cap space for no reason.. he will make the right decisions and we are going to improve tremendoulsy next year.. LETS GO BILLS!..

 

Wilson is a cheap bastoid...cheap to the point of mental illness. If you want to refute that statement, go right ahead. But, I recently met a very reliable source about how the ex-superbowl-bills won't publicly state it, but they can't stand him. No, it's not a friend's cousin's brothers' in-law. It's a direct and very reliable source.

[apuszczalowski]

dude.... im not trying to argue about what the Bills are going to do. i'm trying to pick brains to see WHO is in the market for Nate. i COMPLETELY understand that it goes against our history to re-sign him. IM NOT ARGUING WITH YOU HERE. all im asking is: if we arent going to sign him, who is?

 

only after that is established will i be able to complain that we have more cap room and we should be the ones to re-sign him.

 

up until last week everyone was convinced that Washington was going to scoop him up, just like THEY always do. that will more than likely not happen. all im trying to find out is who people think will sign him. everyone is so sure he's gone. if you're so sure, then where is he going? if you dont have any idea, just say so. cause i sure dont.

Every offseason people talk about how they have no cap room and will be in so much trouble, yet every offseason they work their magic and end up signing atleast one or 2 big name FA's

[tennesseeboy]

I would love to re-sign him. I heard on Sirius NFL over the weekend that NO is one of a number of teams serious about him. I'm reluctantly coming to the conclusion that NC is going to get a HUGE HUGE contract on the market, far more than even he is worth. I'm almost resigned to the fact that we are not going to be able to keep him. I'm hopeful that Youbooty will step up, but might look in the third round to Wade of Tennessee or that kid from East Carolina. Might get someone in free agency. Beefing up our defensive line and aggressive pass rushing might help somewhat with our loss of NC class cornerbacks.