Bills Fan888 Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 all equally futile in these down days. wouldnt you agree? i mean, if you want to get right down to it, NOTHING posted here matters at all considering Marv and Co. dont look for advice here. its just friendly discussion to pass the time. what do YOU want to talk about that will matters so? or better yet, if you dont like it, dont post in the thread. theres plenty of other topics to talk about. but right now, in here( a thread about NC) im asking where people think he's going to go. im not asking for definite answers. just ideas. whats the problem??? Alright, I think there is a chance we sign him but it's not likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 I've heard the Niners are a possibility. ....big name FA, Redskins would fit.....regardless of their cap room. In the end, cap space won't really matter to most teams. The first year cap hit will be structured to minimize the effect so that pretty much any team could target him. How about #32 against the pass Bengals #31 Vikings #30 Cardinals etc, etc, etc In response to DrDankenstein, it's not really a matter of who else will get him......there are 31 other teams & NC is in the top 5 FAs this off-season....plenty of teams will want him. It's not a matter of why we can't.......but why we won't(or will) spend the money on him. See post #8 for reasons why we won't keep him. We've blown a wad of cash on a "shutdown" CB when we're trying to build a Tampa 2 defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 ok, so no one here right now has any ideas about who is in the market for Nate "Good As Gone" Clements... ill check back in the morning. im just curious. theres really no wrong answer here guys. edit: this was typed before dibs response. thanks dibs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 and for everyone saying "we dont need a highly talented CB in the Tampa 2 scheme" i think that has been refuted plenty on this board lately. McGee was in the Tampa 2 scheme last year and got PICKED ON HARD a lot. Our pass-rushing DE's are staying the same, and at best, we're going to add minimal upgrades to the interior.(one rookie and one veteran) someone explain to me how having LESS talent on the field is a good thing????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Fan888 Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 and for everyone saying "we dont need a highly talented CB in the Tampa 2 scheme" i think that has been refuted plenty on this board lately. McGee was in the Tampa 2 scheme last year and got PICKED ON HARD a lot. Our pass-rushing DE's are staying the same, and at best, we're going to add minimal upgrades to the interior.(one rookie and one veteran) someone explain to me how having LESS talent on the field is a good thing????? Maybe if you have less talent but harder workers you'll be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 and for everyone saying "we dont need a highly talented CB in the Tampa 2 scheme" i think that has been refuted plenty on this board lately. McGee was in the Tampa 2 scheme last year and got PICKED ON HARD a lot. Our pass-rushing DE's are staying the same, and at best, we're going to add minimal upgrades to the interior.(one rookie and one veteran) someone explain to me how having LESS talent on the field is a good thing????? It's not a matter of less talent but value for talent. A super man-cover CB costs a lot of money. If we run a style of D that asks for that ability fewer times a game than....for example our previous D(which left the CBs on islands regularly), the value for money is not as good. We basically will be paying top dollar for a skill that we under-utilize(compared to many other teams). IIRC, McGee got picked on a lot early....when he was acclimatizing to the new D. I don't recall in the last 6 or so games that he was considered a liability in our D. Since we ended at #9 against the pass, I'd think McGee finished quite competently. Your point on the DEs......I'd hope that there will be an improvement at LB/DL due to us spending money on a FA or 2 in those areas with the money saved at CB. I personally won't be unhappy if we keep NC.....he's a top player......I just see that there is more logical reasons to let him walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Fan888 Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 It's not a matter of less talent but value for talent.A super man-cover CB costs a lot of money. If we run a style of D that asks for that ability fewer times a game than....for example our previous D(which left the CBs on islands regularly), the value for money is not as good. We basically will be paying top dollar for a skill that we under-utilize(compared to many other teams). IIRC, McGee got picked on a lot early....when he was acclimatizing to the new D. I don't recall in the last 6 or so games that he was considered a liability in our D. Since we ended at #9 against the pass, I'd think McGee finished quite competently. Your point on the DEs......I'd hope that there will be an improvement at LB/DL due to us spending money on a FA or 2 in those areas with the money saved at CB. I personally won't be unhappy if we keep NC.....he's a top player......I just see that there is more logical reasons to let him walk. I completely agree with you on everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 but if so, when/where do we get this value for talent? if thats the case, do you agree that we ink Kelsay and/or Hargrove to a contract? nothing HUGE but something fair to him and us, which is going to be around $3-5mil a year? if the cap is $109mil, thats about $50mil for defense and $50mil for offense (the rest going to kickers/ST) forgive my ignorance on the subject, but where do we concentrate our money on Defense?? it was pointed out in another NC thread that even if we signed him to 7 years for $63mil and a $18mil bonus his hit this year would be around $4-5million and next year would still be around the same($6-7mil, less than what he counted last year). dont you think its worth that hit to have one of the top CBs on our defense?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Fan888 Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 but if so, when/where do we get this value for talent? if thats the case, do you agree that we ink Kelsay and/or Hargrove to a contract? nothing HUGE but something fair to him and us, which is going to be around $3-5mil a year? if the cap is $109mil, thats about $50mil for defense and $50mil for offense (the rest going to kickers/ST) forgive my ignorance on the subject, but where do we concentrate our money on Defense?? it was pointed out in another NC thread that even if we signed him to 7 years for $63mil and a $18mil bonus his hit this year would be around $4-5million and next year would still be around the same($6-7mil, less than what he counted last year). dont you think its worth that hit to have one of the top CBs on our defense?? That's what I was thinking. He wouldn't be that much more. Either we sign him and lose 4 million more off the cap or get a lot of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 wait.. what? so you agree with getting value elsewhere, but you agree that signing him is a good idea? im confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 explain what you mean please. he's not counting anything towards our $39mil cap room right now since he's not under contract. if we sign him to that contract then we have about $35mil left to work with. if we let him walk then we have $39mil still. edit: hahahaha, ive deleted a couple posts myself already tonight. they make a ton of sense when youre typing then you post them and read them and go "aw man, what am i talking about!?!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Fan888 Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 explain what you mean please. he's not counting anything towards our $39mil cap room right now since he's not under contract. if we sign him to that contract then we have about $35mil left to work with. if we let him walk then we have $39mil still. edit: hahahaha, ive deleted a couple posts myself already tonight. they make a ton of sense when youre typing then you post them and read them and go "aw man, what am i talking about!?!" I wasn't thinking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 no worries, i wont hold anyone to anything they type at 2am on a saturday night (oops technically sunday morning) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 so do you agree that signing him to that deal means that we arent really sinking any BIG BIG money into him until almost 4 years from now? when we can possibly cut him and just eat whatever is left of the $18mil signing bonus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Fan888 Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 so do you agree that signing him to that deal means that we arent really sinking any BIG BIG money into him until almost 4 years from now? when we can possibly cut him and just eat whatever is left of the $18mil signing bonus? Yeah, although I would rather trade him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 well, sure, that too. but you get what im saying. we keep a great CB and keep some continuity on this team (FOR ONCE) for the next 4 years and it really doesnt cost us anything more than we've already paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Fan888 Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showthre...#post1061790055 Here's who Dolphins fans want. One for Clements and Asante so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 eww, i felt dirty just looking at a dolphins page. if i posted there id do so in those yellow heavy duty cleaning gloves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Fan888 Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 It would be better if we gave him more money now and less later since we have a lot of cap space now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 ive talked about THAT route recently as well. its not a LAW that contracts have to be back-loaded. but it may allow us to sign some FA vets to short contracts (3 years) now and pay them while saving money on Nate until later when we do what EVERY other team does and dump him as a cap casualty. basically, i think we've decided that its DEFINITELY MORE THAN POSSIBLE to re-sign Nate and not tie up all of our resources on him. agreed? even if we do sign him to a back loaded contract and kept him for the next 3 seasons. we wouldnt be paying that much and could possibly trade him for a 2nd round pick( the only reason i dont say 1st is that teams wouldnt be thrilled with taking on his contract). and that way we can get 3 great more years AND a 2nd round pick out of him, instead of what we'll get if he walks, which is nothing. now THAT is value!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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