Fan in San Diego Posted February 10, 2007 Posted February 10, 2007 Dont forget from a stat point of view. JP didn't start slinging the ball until mideason. So PP put up those stats in 8 games essentially. Double PP stats and he looks better than EM's
Oneonta Buffalo Fan Posted February 10, 2007 Posted February 10, 2007 Double PP stats and he looks better than EM's Obviously. I'm very glad we got PP back in Buffalo. There's something about Buffalo that make him play better than on any other team.
Dawgg Posted February 11, 2007 Posted February 11, 2007 Wow. How about the fact that David Carr sucks and Kubiak is going to replace him? If the Texans had a decent QB, Moulds would have had better numbers. So let's multiply Moulds' stats by 1.5x. Double PP stats and he looks better than EM's
ThreeBillsDrive Posted February 11, 2007 Posted February 11, 2007 Wow. How about the fact that David Carr sucks and Kubiak is going to replace him? If the Texans had a decent QB, Moulds would have had better numbers. So let's multiply Moulds' stats by 1.5x. Word is that Plummer could be traded to the Texans and get reunited with Kubiak. http://www.aolsportsblog.com/2007/02/10/co...mer-to-houston/
Bills Fan888 Posted February 11, 2007 Posted February 11, 2007 Moulds definitely had a negative affect on JP. You could see Moulds did nothing to help him. He never hustled, didn't try for the ball when thrown to by JP, and had a bad attitude. That is why Mularky pulled him during that game 2 years ago. Moulds was a big negative affect on everyone.
MadBuffaloDisease Posted February 11, 2007 Posted February 11, 2007 Yep, Moulds and Adams were negative influences on the team. That's why they're gone.
Pyrite Gal Posted February 11, 2007 Posted February 11, 2007 Considering Price was 1/7th the cost of what it would have been to keep Moulds (cap number-wise), and cost the Bills roughly 60% of what it cost the Texans to sign Moulds, the Bills more than made out on this deal. Agreed that this is really a key point to take into consideration when judging the relative value of PP to the Bills. Overall, I see no reason to engage in what I see as a somewhat farfetched statistical exercise suggested above of doubling PPs output to get a true sense of him because the Bills O play calling was relatively restricted because it was judged (probably correctly) that this was all JP could handle initially. The season stats are what they are. Overall, I think that if the Texans expected a playmaker and a #1 quality WR they did not get one (and should not have expected one) as Moulds has simply gotten old and he through a hissy-fit here because the Bills clearly had recognized this and moved on to Evans being the #1. For us, PP turned out #s which were not great but not bad for a #2 WR. Those who wrote him off based on his failure to be a productive #1 in AT and not really finding productivity in Dallas were simply wrong if they concluded from these failures that he was incapable of being an adequate #2WR. He was a great #2 in his last year here, and though he too has gotten older and never will even give a hint of potentially being a #1 again, his adequate production indicates he can still play that role IF he is used effectively. The question for us is whether he was used effectively and I think the anser is no. A reason for this may in fact be that our O ran at half speed until JP got his legs under him, but I do not think analysis of the game by game results supports that idea. A more real attempt to try to analyze this difference may be found in looking at the game by game. If it were merely JP's limitations which held him back so his production should be divided into an initial lameness with JP followed by productivity such that it is legitimate to double his final stats, then PP's numbers should reflect that difference one half of the season compared to the other. There should also be a relatively straight line of improved output by PP. The stats do not indicate this. The third to last game saw one of PP's worst effort as he got just 1 catch working in a pretty good (though not stellar) offensive performance with the team beating Miami. However, his next game was one of his better ones in which he was a productive target logging seven catches in a very productive offense. His last game was middlin at best as he logged 4 catches and the offense was fairly stymied by the Ravens. Also in this game the complaints about PP not trying hard enough seem their most legit of this season (though the other complaints of him generally rounding off routes seem overblown IMHO). He coulda/shoulda come back for one ball. Overall, I think PP's performance was in fact adequate at best for a #2 and the question I am left with is whether Fairchild could have put his remaining speed to better use by really opening our offense up at the end of the season, Its hard to say for sure, but certainly with much improvement by JP aand having set a precedent on the tape of PP being a possession receiver by us sets the stage for Fairchild to really run our O in 2007 as more of a Rams east offense if he chooses and if he has the ability.
Phil Indablanc Posted February 11, 2007 Posted February 11, 2007 "...but I do not think analysis of the game by game results supports that idea. A more real attempt to try to analyze this difference may be found in looking at the game by game." ??????????????????
Fan in San Diego Posted February 11, 2007 Posted February 11, 2007 Agreed that this is really a key point to take into consideration when judging the relative value of PP to the Bills. Overall, I see no reason to engage in what I see as a somewhat farfetched statistical exercise suggested above of doubling PPs output to get a true sense of him because the Bills O play calling was relatively restricted because it was judged (probably correctly) that this was all JP could handle initially. The season stats are what they are. Overall, I think that if the Texans expected a playmaker and a #1 quality WR they did not get one (and should not have expected one) as Moulds has simply gotten old and he through a hissy-fit here because the Bills clearly had recognized this and moved on to Evans being the #1. For us, PP turned out #s which were not great but not bad for a #2 WR. Those who wrote him off based on his failure to be a productive #1 in AT and not really finding productivity in Dallas were simply wrong if they concluded from these failures that he was incapable of being an adequate #2WR. He was a great #2 in his last year here, and though he too has gotten older and never will even give a hint of potentially being a #1 again, his adequate production indicates he can still play that role IF he is used effectively. The question for us is whether he was used effectively and I think the anser is no. A reason for this may in fact be that our O ran at half speed until JP got his legs under him, but I do not think analysis of the game by game results supports that idea. A more real attempt to try to analyze this difference may be found in looking at the game by game. If it were merely JP's limitations which held him back so his production should be divided into an initial lameness with JP followed by productivity such that it is legitimate to double his final stats, then PP's numbers should reflect that difference one half of the season compared to the other. There should also be a relatively straight line of improved output by PP. The stats do not indicate this. The third to last game saw one of PP's worst effort as he got just 1 catch working in a pretty good (though not stellar) offensive performance with the team beating Miami. However, his next game was one of his better ones in which he was a productive target logging seven catches in a very productive offense. His last game was middlin at best as he logged 4 catches and the offense was fairly stymied by the Ravens. Also in this game the complaints about PP not trying hard enough seem their most legit of this season (though the other complaints of him generally rounding off routes seem overblown IMHO). He coulda/shoulda come back for one ball. Overall, I think PP's performance was in fact adequate at best for a #2 and the question I am left with is whether Fairchild could have put his remaining speed to better use by really opening our offense up at the end of the season, Its hard to say for sure, but certainly with much improvement by JP aand having set a precedent on the tape of PP being a possession receiver by us sets the stage for Fairchild to really run our O in 2007 as more of a Rams east offense if he chooses and if he has the ability. Maybe doubling is taking poetic license but this is all guess work anyways, but you and I both know, there was a big difference bewtween the first half and the second half with the play calling. Fairchild hit the full throttle switch with JP during the second half translating to more receptions for all of the wide receivers. So dont call it far fetched. It's far from far fetched. maybe some of the stat junkie's can dredge up the number pass plays in the first half of the season vs. the second half of the season.
smokinandjokin Posted February 11, 2007 Posted February 11, 2007 Moulds has mulitple children out of wedlock. He sucks.
Dawgg Posted February 11, 2007 Posted February 11, 2007 If you're going to make adjustments to Price's stats based on factors beyond his control, do the same for Moulds. Moulds played with a crap QB, a horrible offensive line and a team with a very marginal running game. With that being said, I think Price is not a good #2 WR for this team. Price's game is predicated on speed. We already have that in Evans and Parrish and what we really need lining up opposite Lee Evans is a big, strong receiver who makes tough catches in traffic. Hopefully the coaches will give Josh Reed a chance to take the #2 spot away because I think he's better suited for it. Maybe doubling is taking poetic license but this is all guess work anyways, but you and I both know, there was a big difference bewtween the first half and the second half with the play calling. Fairchild hit the full throttle switch with JP during the second half translating to more receptions for all of the wide receivers. So dont call it far fetched. It's far from far fetched. maybe some of the stat junkie's can dredge up the number pass plays in the first half of the season vs. the second half of the season.
Fan in San Diego Posted February 12, 2007 Posted February 12, 2007 If you're going to make adjustments to Price's stats based on factors beyond his control, do the same for Moulds. Moulds played with a crap QB, a horrible offensive line and a team with a very marginal running game. With that being said, I think Price is not a good #2 WR for this team. Price's game is predicated on speed. We already have that in Evans and Parrish and what we really need lining up opposite Lee Evans is a big, strong receiver who makes tough catches in traffic. Hopefully the coaches will give Josh Reed a chance to take the #2 spot away because I think he's better suited for it. Well we have a crap O-Line and marginal running game. First half JP was vanilla second half was neoplitan. Sounds equal to me.
Mark Vader Posted February 12, 2007 Posted February 12, 2007 Word is that Plummer could be traded to the Texans and get reunited with Kubiak. http://www.aolsportsblog.com/2007/02/10/co...mer-to-houston/ Personally I do'nt think David Carr is the problem. Look at what the Texans have done to their team ever since they drafted Carr. Every 1st round pick since they took Carr was a defensive player, if I remember correctly: Dunta Robinson, Jonathan Babin, & Mario Williams. I may have missed someone, but the point is, the Texans have done nothing to protect or help Carr. With all the high draft picks they have had they could'nt find a good OT to protect Carr? Not drafting Reggie Bush was a joke as well. A crappy O-Line and no running game is why Carr is not having success, and to put all the blame on him is misguided.
kgun Posted February 12, 2007 Posted February 12, 2007 Moulds has mulitple children out of wedlock. He sucks. HE did not have the kids. Golddiggers wanted money from him. alas baby one, two, three......... Its sad saying this; I was adopted.
kgun Posted February 12, 2007 Posted February 12, 2007 "...but I do not think analysis of the game by game results supports that idea. A more real attempt to try to analyze this difference may be found in looking at the game by game."?????????????????? One of the funniest things read on here in months. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lets leave it at this: Moulds made Price a multi million $$ man. 81 went nowhere after he left. Comes back here and catches a few. How many QB's did Moulds have tossing him the ball............8. he will never get to the hall but he could flat out catch the ball and make plays. All day if he wanted to. Just too many QB's & OC's killed a great WR's numbers.
kgun Posted February 12, 2007 Posted February 12, 2007 Only numbers comparison necessary: Moulds #1 WR; Price always a #2-3
In space no one can hear Posted February 12, 2007 Author Posted February 12, 2007 Personally I do'nt think David Carr is the problem. Look at what the Texans have done to their team ever since they drafted Carr. Every 1st round pick since they took Carr was a defensive player, if I remember correctly: Dunta Robinson, Jonathan Babin, & Mario Williams. I may have missed someone, but the point is, the Texans have done nothing to protect or help Carr. With all the high draft picks they have had they could'nt find a good OT to protect Carr? Not drafting Reggie Bush was a joke as well. A crappy O-Line and no running game is why Carr is not having success, and to put all the blame on him is misguided. I'n not a fan of Carr- but don't think he is the problem when it comes to Moulds. Carr got the ball to a double covered Andre Johnson pretty well. As the season wore on and other teams realized how shot Moulds was they even began to sag on Johnson more and more. Moulds is in decline and can't run away from anybody anymore.
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted February 12, 2007 Posted February 12, 2007 Maybe doubling is taking poetic license but this is all guess work anyways, but you and I both know, there was a big difference bewtween the first half and the second half with the play calling. Fairchild hit the full throttle switch with JP during the second half translating to more receptions for all of the wide receivers. So dont call it far fetched. It's far from far fetched. maybe some of the stat junkie's can dredge up the number pass plays in the first half of the season vs. the second half of the season. I agree, there was a big difference in our play calling. I'd say we were pretty conservative up to and including week 10 @IND (week 9 was GB, for point of reference), and we opened it up starting week 11 @HOU. However, the numbers don't appear to support your case. Here are Price's stats split after week 10. first 9 games 27 catches, 3 catches/game 231 yards, 25.6 yards/game last 7 games 22 catches, 3.1 catches/game 171 yards, 24.4 yards/game stats are from here The idea that we should add to his numbers to make up for conservative early-season play calling doesn't make sense as there is no evidence it affected his stats. They remain the same throughout the season. And in my opinion, season averages of 3 catches for 25.1 yards don't reach what this offense needs from it's number 2 reciever, particularly when the TE and FB are both primarily blockers.
Ramius Posted February 12, 2007 Posted February 12, 2007 Wow. How about the fact that David Carr sucks and Kubiak is going to replace him? If the Texans had a decent QB, Moulds would have had better numbers. So let's multiply Moulds' stats by 1.5x. Moulds averaged 9.8 YPC last year. That is absolutely horrendous for a WR. His YPC have been in steady decline since '98. He was great in buffalo during his prime, but now he's bad, plain and simple.
Dawgg Posted February 12, 2007 Posted February 12, 2007 He has become a #2 possession receiver and those numbers, while not great, definitely help move the sticks. Moulds averaged 9.8 YPC last year. That is absolutely horrendous for a WR. His YPC have been in steady decline since '98. He was great in buffalo during his prime, but now he's bad, plain and simple.
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