molson_golden2002 Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 These are the people Bush says owe us a 'debt of graditude'? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6339835.stm The flow of people being forced to leave their homes by violence in Iraq has become a humanitarian disaster, the United Nations refugee chief has said. Antonio Guterres said there were almost four million displaced people inside Iraq or in neighbouring countries. He said the international community had been "overwhelmed" by the problem, and needed to do much more to help. About 1.8 million have left their homes within Iraq, with two million in Syria, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, Turkey and Iran. According to figures collated by the UN refugee agency, UNHCR, some 640,000 out of Iraq's population of 26 million fled their homes in the past year. Speaking in Amman, Jordan, Mr Guterres, the UN High Commissioner for Refugees, praised Jordan and Syria for accepting large numbers of Iraqis. See map showing Iraqi migration "The sacrifices made by these countries are remarkable and the international community needs to assume full responsibility in supporting them," he said. "They are having huge strains in their infrastructure... we need to help them cope with this massive challenge." Many refugees live in conditions of acute poverty: in Syria, almost a third of Iraqi refugee children do not go to school. "When you have almost four million people displaced inside the country or in countries around... we are facing a humanitarian disaster," he said. "This is the biggest movement of displaced people in the Middle East since the Palestinian crisis in 1948," Mr Guterres said, referring to the movement of Palestinians after the establishment of Israel. Mr Guterres' comments come after aid agencies voiced their concerns about the situation earlier this year. The UNHCR has also appealed for $60m (£30.8m, 45m euros) in emergency aid, and plans to hold a donor conference in Geneva in April. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Heck, I thought this would be a post about Anna Nicole. Gee, the "international community" needs to do much more to help? No kidding. Considering most of the world is doing absolutely nothing (think France) or actively supporting groups promoting the "insurgents" (think Syria), that isn't really a newsworthy thought. I don't really feel that bad for Syria having to deal with refugees when they are creating a large portion of the problem. (I DO however feel bad for the refugees.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Good thing the "international community" was so active in Saddam-era Iraq - because that was a sunshiny example of how people can live together in harmony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdh1 Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 They aren't leaving because the US forces are there. It's because their Muslims brothers feel blowing up a market square full of people is an acceptable form of political activism. Hey did you hear about the big "peace conference" in Saudi Arabia this week? No, it wasn't Between Israel and the Palestinians, it was between the Palestinians and the Palestinians. What a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molson_golden2002 Posted February 9, 2007 Author Share Posted February 9, 2007 1) They aren't leaving because the US forces are there.It's because their Muslims brothers feel blowing up a market square full of people is an acceptable form of political activism. Hey did you hear about the big "peace conference" in Saudi Arabia this week? No, it wasn't Between Israel and the Palestinians, it was between the Palestinians and the Palestinians. What a joke. 1) Ya, the US invasion has nothing to do with them leaving. No sir, nope, not at all 2) Yes, I saw that Saudi Arabia is making a positive step in the region. Now if only Israel would agree to the Saudi Peace place which calls for a withdrawl from the occupied territories. Remember the last time Jews were pulled out of "Greater Israel" by Israeli troops? What a joke! 3) Can't believe no one blamed the media! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdh1 Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 1) Ya, the US invasion has nothing to do with them leaving. No sir, nope, not at all 2) Yes, I saw that Saudi Arabia is making a positive step in the region. Now if only Israel would agree to the Saudi Peace place which calls for a withdrawl from the occupied territories. Remember the last time Jews were pulled out of "Greater Israel" by Israeli troops? What a joke! 3) Can't believe no one blamed the media! 1) pretty sure the people in the mass graves would left before they got gunned done if they had a chance. you think the US invasion some how created the tension and hatred between the different groups there? That has been simmering for years. The only thing that kept it from exploded was the threat of the wood chipper and the rape rooms. so now instead of 20,000 people dumped in grave, you have bombings that kill 20 kids trying to get candy. 2)by "positive step", do you mean telling the parties fighting, "Hey you should be killing Jews instead of each other"? How about closing down the Madras hate schools instead? 3) How come no one ever blames the person pulling the trigger? it is always "we made them that way"..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molson_golden2002 Posted February 9, 2007 Author Share Posted February 9, 2007 1) pretty sure the people in the mass graves would left before they got gunned done if they had a chance. you think the US invasion some how created the tension and hatred between the different groups there? That has been simmering for years. The only thing that kept it from exploded was the threat of the wood chipper and the rape rooms. so now instead of 20,000 people dumped in grave, you have bombings that kill 20 kids trying to get candy. 2)by "positive step", do you mean telling the parties fighting, "Hey you should be killing Jews instead of each other"? How about closing down the Madras hate schools instead? 3) How come no one ever blames the person pulling the trigger? it is always "we made them that way"..... 1) Exactly the point, at least Saddam knew how to keep order there. Not excusing their society or leaders, but we should have left that bee hive alone and not walked up and kicked. "You are now liberated!" 2) You don't know what you are talking about. Saudi Arabia came up with a serious plan, but the "Greater Isreal" crowd--you know, the people who think God wants Isreal to own the whole damn place to hell with the millions already living there--rejected it. Your Madras point is well taken though 3) When you create a power vaccum you shouldn't get blamed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 3) When you create a power vaccum you shouldn't get blamed? Yeah...and then abandon all responsibility for it and run like hell. That is the Democratic plan for Iraq, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 2) You don't know what you are talking about. Saudi Arabia came up with a serious plan, but the "Greater Isreal" crowd--you know, the people who think God wants Isreal to own the whole damn place to hell with the millions already living there--rejected it. Your Madras point is well taken though Saudi Arabia's "serious plan" included a complete withdrawal from Gaza (which was done) and a partial withdrawal from the West Bank (already done). Beyond that, it insisted on some pretty radical items that included (I think) so-called "right of return". That stipulation would be completely unacceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdh1 Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 1) Exactly the point, at least Saddam knew how to keep order there. Wow, I guess we should end this here. The biggest blunder Bush made was to believe the people there could actually live with each other, and accept their differences without killing each other. PS. Do the Saudis have plan for the Palestinians driven out of Jordan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prognastic Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 1) Exactly the point, at least Saddam knew how to keep order there. Wow, I guess we should end this here. The biggest blunder Bush made was to believe the people there could actually live with each other, and accept their differences without killing each other. PS. Do the Saudis have plan for the Palestinians driven out of Jordan Blame the Jews? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molson_golden2002 Posted February 9, 2007 Author Share Posted February 9, 2007 Yeah...and then abandon all responsibility for it and run like hell. That is the Democratic plan for Iraq, isn't it? Nice DC Idiot! Real nice! So Bush kicks over the bee hive and you blame the Democrats for not wanting to stay and put each bee back in the hive. Iraq is broken beyond repair, we should follow the Baker report and work with the people who have to live in that area to make this all as painless as possible. Yes, its time to start with diplomacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molson_golden2002 Posted February 9, 2007 Author Share Posted February 9, 2007 Saudi Arabia's "serious plan" included a complete withdrawal from Gaza (which was done) and a partial withdrawal from the West Bank (already done). Beyond that, it insisted on some pretty radical items that included (I think) so-called "right of return". That stipulation would be completely unacceptable. I do not think that is right, but if it is I'll admit I'm wrong. I was under the impression that it only advocated what UN resolution 242 called for. The 'right of return' is a very important issue,too. The Pals were forced off their land by terror at times and think they should be able to return. I see there point. I also see Isreal's point, they stole the land fair and square and want to keep a mostly Jewish state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molson_golden2002 Posted February 9, 2007 Author Share Posted February 9, 2007 1) Exactly the point, at least Saddam knew how to keep order there. PS. Do the Saudis have plan for the Palestinians driven out of Jordan PS, do you know why they ended up in Jordan in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdh1 Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 PS, do you know why they ended up in Jordan in the first place? How did the Jews and Christians get booted out of the area before that? Pretty sure both folks were there long before people knew what a "jihad" was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungee Jumper Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Nice DC Idiot! Real nice! So Bush kicks over the bee hive and you blame the Democrats for not wanting to stay and put each bee back in the hive. So it's not our responsibility to clean up the mess after this misbegotten invasion, is that what you're saying. That's why I love (*^*&%^$^#liberals like you: for all the talk about being compassionate, when push comes to shove you run and hide. Iraq is broken beyond repair, we should follow the Baker report and work with the people who have to live in that area to make this all as painless as possible. Yes, its time to start with diplomacy Yeah, no sh--. It was time to diplomatically engage Syria and Iran (particularly Iran) before the invasion even started. Still doesn't change the fact that you're a blustering fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungee Jumper Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 How did the Jews and Christians get booted out of the area before that?Pretty sure both folks were there long before people knew what a "jihad" was. They weren't. The history of the region, going WAY back (all the way to the Crusades), has the major religions not only coexisting but protecting each other to a degree. The segregation and mass exodus of religious groups is a very recent feature, directly attributable to the "Papa knows best" attitudes of the imperial nations in the late colonial and post-colonial period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdh1 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 They weren't? Huh? You are telling me there were no Jews living in and around Jerusalem long before Islam came calling? And the holiest Muslim holy place in Jerusalem today, the Al Aqsa Mosque, isn't built on top of the ruins of David's temple? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdh1 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 2) You don't know what you are talking about. Saudi Arabia came up with a serious plan, but the "Greater Isreal" crowd--you know, the people who think God wants Isreal to own the whole damn place to hell with the millions already living there--rejected it. Y Yeah, sounds like some real progress for that serious plan: AZA (Reuters) - A new Palestinian unity government to be formed after a deal in Mecca between rival Fatah and Hamas factions will not recognize Israel, a political adviser to Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh said on Saturday. Ahmed Youssef said the unity government, which he expected Haniyeh to unveil within 10 days, would "respect" previous Palestinian peace accords with Israel but would not be committed to them, nor to recognizing the Jewish state. Recognition of Israel is one of three conditions set by the "Quartet" of international Middle East negotiators for lifting sanctions on the Hamas-led government. The Quartet also demands Hamas renounce violence and accept existing peace deals. "The issue of recognition was not addressed at all (in Mecca)," Youssef said. "In the platform of the new government there will be no sign of recognition (of Israel), regardless of the pressures the United States and the Quartet would exert." http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews....=rss&rpc=22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molson_golden2002 Posted February 10, 2007 Author Share Posted February 10, 2007 So it's not our responsibility to clean up the mess after this misbegotten invasion, is that what you're saying. That's why I love (*^*&%^$^#liberals like you: for all the talk about being compassionate, when push comes to shove you run and hide. Yeah, no sh--. It was time to diplomatically engage Syria and Iran (particularly Iran) before the invasion even started. Still doesn't change the fact that you're a blustering fool. I'd like to think it's the Iraqis mess to clean up their own country with the help of their neighbors, but I know better. The place is broken beyond our ability to fix. The middle class has fled, there is civil war on top of tribal war on top on top of revenge killings everywhere. It's like Haiti where the UN is fighting battles against street gangs today. We tried fixing that sh-- hole for 20 years but it didn't work. Wasting 8 billion dollars a month and 100 lives isn't going to fix anything. Throwing good money after bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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