Lost S3 Discussion Thread

[Spun]

Finally got all caught up with the new episodes. i really like the direction this part of the season has taken. the old LOST is back, with story and character deveopment, intermixed with action. It makes you think a hell of a lot more.

 

I think Ben and Locke are working each other. No doubt Ben would like to have someone with Locke's "knowledge/power" about the island on his "side". Locke is definitely out for himself, and what he thinks is right.

 

With Jakc and Kate, Jack's still pissed that Kate nailed sawyer. I know i would be if i was jack. He needs to stick with juliette and hit that.

 

 

I agree! This past episode was eventful. I always thought Locke was in a car crash in which someone worked his brakes. Ben and Locke are certainly in a chess match. It got me wondering why Walt with his "powers" isn't somehow in the script, wherever he is in the world.

 

As for Locke's Dad, isn't it possible that he was on the other part of the plane, stalking Locke in order to finish him off and escape at the same time? I don't know if I buy this magical box yet.

 

Jack's a wishy-washy wimp. Yet he still has the choice of Kate, Juliette or... both! Juliette is a little creepy, I don't trust her. But half the cast is creepy!

 

My favorite characters are Danielle and Desmond. It seems like anything is possible with them.

 

Nice work with the art connections Dr Dank!

 

There is nothing wrong with deep analysis UConn!

 

That was quite a body check thrown by Locke's father! That might merit a suspension in the NHL!

[ricojes]

It got me wondering why Walt with his "powers" isn't somehow in the script, wherever he is in the world.

This got me wondering if the submarine was the only way off the island, where did Michael and Walt end up on the boat?

[DrDawkinstein]

This got me wondering if the submarine was the only way off the island, where did Michael and Walt end up on the boat?

 

 

this is why we will see them, or at least Walt, come back. very good point.

 

i think the producers have hinted in interviews we MAY see Walt back as early as this season. the last 4 episodes were being written last week....

[UConn James]

One question I always have in the flashbacks is, did they film those all the way back then? Had to've for the beach scene, b/c the wreckage was cleared out shortly into S1.... And you know, that just gives me a good feeling that the writers/producers had this all planned out, shot, and shelved since even back then re: where the storyline was going and at what pace. It was nice to see some 'classic' Lost footage with different angles and other sundries (ala Locke's "Nothing stays buried on this island for long). Also got some timeline detail fill-in. They found the plane before Locke & Boone (yet failed to tell anyone), and the Pearl was exposed.

 

So.... Nikki and Paulo buried alive? We shall see, but it looks like it. With the gibberish Nikki said wasn't decipherable (turned out to be "Paulo's alive") I still saw it coming the whole ep; they kept showing the paralyzed bodies with their eyes still open in a plain narrative giveaway. The spiders seemed to make the monster noise, if my ears don't deceive me (I'm at ~70% ). Also, make note of yet another black/white imagery --- the white of the diamonds in the black pouch.

 

Charlie told Sun it was him who 'attacked' her; let's see if Desmond has to shortly save him from the wrath of Jin.

[CosmicBills]

One question I always have in the flashbacks is, did they film those all the way back then? Had to've for the beach scene, b/c the wreckage was cleared out shortly into S1.... And you know, that just gives me a good feeling that the writers/producers had this all planned out, shot, and shelved since even back then re: where the storyline was going and at what pace. It was nice to see some 'classic' Lost footage with different angles and other sundries (ala Locke's "Nothing stays buried on this island for long). Also got some timeline detail fill-in. They found the plane before Locke & Boone (yet failed to tell anyone), and the Pearl was exposed.

 

So.... Nikki and Paulo buried alive? We shall see, but it looks like it. With the gibberish Nikki said wasn't decipherable (turned out to be "Paulo's alive") I still saw it coming the whole ep; they kept showing the paralyzed bodies with their eyes still open in a plain narrative giveaway. The spiders seemed to make the monster noise, if my ears don't deceive me (I'm at ~70% ). Also, make note of yet another black/white imagery --- the white of the diamonds in the black pouch.

 

Charlie told Sun it was him who 'attacked' her; let's see if Desmond has to shortly save him from the wrath of Jin.

A couple points:

1. They did not shoot all that footage during the pilot. That was done CGI and Green Screen with the "new" actors after the wreckage had been cleared. It's a trick.

 

2. Still, as I've been saying to you from waaaaay back in season 1, the writers do indeed have a plan and have had one from the beginning. Still, it's not set in stone, there is wiggle room to add new twists and characters. For example, Mr. Eko was supposed to have 10 more episodes to his story, but the actor wanted out -- so they had to bump up his death. And for episodes like this one, they used footage from the cutting room floor and green screen the new actors in and poof! New/Used footage. Essentially it's a "clip show" for Lost.

 

3. She didn't say "Paulo's Alive" she actually said: "Paralyzed" ... as in, "I'm not dead, don't burry me alive!". Too late.

 

4. Good call with the B&W imagery -- the reoccuring theme has been there from the beginning, and continues to bear out my thoughts on the "what's really going on" thing.

 

5. Your ears weren't lying. I too noticed the "sounds" of the "monster" before the second wave of spiders attacked. Maybe they really were killed by the Monster like Hurley said. But of course, that goes into my thoughts on what the monster really is ...

[UConn James]

A couple points:

1. They did not shoot all that footage during the pilot. That was done CGI and Green Screen with the "new" actors after the wreckage had been cleared. It's a trick.

 

2. Still, as I've been saying to you from waaaaay back in season 1, the writers do indeed have a plan and have had one from the beginning. Still, it's not set in stone, there is wiggle room to add new twists and characters. For example, Mr. Eko was supposed to have 10 more episodes to his story, but the actor wanted out -- so they had to bump up his death. And for episodes like this one, they used footage from the cutting room floor and green screen the new actors in and poof! New/Used footage. Essentially it's a "clip show" for Lost.

 

3. She didn't say "Paulo's Alive" she actually said: "Paralyzed" ... as in, "I'm not dead, don't burry me alive!". Too late.

 

4. Good call with the B&W imagery -- the reoccuring theme has been there from the beginning, and continues to bear out my thoughts on the "what's really going on" thing.

 

5. Your ears weren't lying. I too noticed the "sounds" of the "monster" before the second wave of spiders attacked. Maybe they really were killed by the Monster like Hurley said. But of course, that goes into my thoughts on what the monster really is ...

 

2) Preaching to the choir. Didn't know about the CGi, but, what, they bring Shannon & Boone 14 hours to Hawaii to shoot ~ 10 seconds of screen time? Methinks this was shot a while ago (weren't they also in a previous S3 ep?)

 

3) Told you I'm ~70% for hearing. If I turn the volume up, I get berated for having it "so loud!"

 

5) Do tell.

[CosmicBills]

2) Preaching to the choir. Didn't know about the CGi, but, what, they bring Shannon & Boone 14 hours to Hawaii to shoot ~ 10 seconds of screen time? Methinks this was shot a while ago (weren't they also in a previous S3 ep?)

 

3) Told you I'm ~70% for hearing. If I turn the volume up, I get berated for having it "so loud!"

 

5) Do tell.

 

2. That's exactly what they do. Same with Dr. Arntz (sp) and Ethan. What looks like 10 seconds of screen time probably was a day of shooting. Most 1 hour shows take 8 days to film, Lost is no exception. So, Boone, Shannon, Arntz and Ethan get a nice check for a days work, as well as a trip back to Hawaii.

 

The trick to catching the CGI/Greenscreen is to watch Nikki during the "crash" sequences. She's in perfect focus but the rest of the action has a blurr around it. It stands out even more in HD. It's a blurr because they are putting her image over the original film stock they shot during the pilot.

 

Plus, from a simple business standpoint, it is impossible to cast all those actors in the pilot and "hope" the show was going to be picked up. The pilot was the most expensive one in TV history, but that was mainly due to JJ using a real plane for the wreckage rather than doing straight CGI and props. The network would never pay those actor's quotes for a pilot shoot unless they were going to be on screen. It's just too costly.

 

5. My basic theory since Season 2 has been that there are 2 sets of "others". This has been borne out this season as we've learned that there was the Dharma people and "The Others" that we know. My theory has been basically that there was a war of sorts on the island (something referenced by the Russian at the Flame station a few weeks ago) that divided the camps and a line was drawn based on fundamental principles. Basically it boils down to the theme of the show: Faith vs Science. One set of "Others" believes in science. These are the ones we have come to know, the ones that have kidnapped Jack, Sawyer, Kate etc. Then there are another set (of which we have not seen yet) that believe in Faith. This of course fits perfectly with the other trend you always point out: white and black imagery ... two sides.

 

Everyone assumed that the "Monster" was a security system for the "Others" that we know. But really I think it's the security system for the "Faith" based people. We know it scans people (as it did Eko) and also that it can take several shapes (like Yemi or the spiders, or even the eagle that called out Hurley's name). It scans people and only keeps the ones who are "faith" based alive. It spared Eko and Locke, killed the Pilot and attacked Jack and Kate. It killed Eko once he decided that he changed his "path".

 

The two sides are battling for new recruits more or less. Essentially Ben's "Others" took Kate, Jack and Sawyer because they are all believers in science (for a lack of a better word) and let Hurley go because they knew he was firmly a "faith" based lost-away. Locke is useless to them, and people like Sayid, Jin and Sun are on the fence. When Ben says things like, "We're the good guys, Michael" ... he means it. But only from his POV. Science is good, faith is bad in their eyes.

 

This of course is a very rough theory that has a number of holes, but it holds up better with each week. The only thing in season 3 that has given me pause to reconsider this theory was Locke's father "appearing" in Ben's camp. This seems more like a faith based move than a science one -- so maybe I'm off. But there are a couple things we know for sure: 1. Ben is not the leader of "the Others" and 2. The Monster is not controlled by Ben's group ... which begs the question -- who controls it then?

[Buffan00]

Spiders attacking?? I must have missed that part..what happend??

[The Jokeman]

Spiders attacking?? I must have missed that part..what happend??

I think he's referring to the point when Nikki goes into her speech after throwing the spider on Paulo we see a bunch of medusa spiders coming from trees/the ground before converging and biting her. Of course I don't remember the monster sounds but will have to rewatch the episode. As I'll admit I thought she said "Paulo's alive" after watching the episode but "Paralyzed" makes more sense with the attitude of her character.

 

This was definately a filler episode but enjoyable none the less as it was nice to see Boone and Shannon again and anytime you can get a good looking girl in a bikini it's a plus.

[duey]

As entertaining as it was to see those two get buried alive, I really don't understand the purpose of the entire episode. No questions were answered and no plot lines were advanced. To me, the Nikki and Paulo characters really had no purpose. To go through the trouble of green-screening them in just to have the killed off like that...?

 

So, my guess is that we've not seen the last of them. Here are my thoughts...

 

Nikki did say paralyzed, though it was more garbled at the begining so as not it give away;

 

They will return because, remember what Locke said..."Nothing stays buried on this island for long." I may credit the dog (WTF is its name...I forget) with digging them up (or digging enough that people can hear them scream).

 

I think the Sawyer - Jin thing may come in to play towards the end of this season.

 

The more I think about it, the more I believe that they'll both be back...if not, it ends up being kind of a dead-end episode.

[The Jokeman]

As entertaining as it was to see those two get buried alive, I really don't understand the purpose of the entire episode. No questions were answered and no plot lines were advanced. To me, the Nikki and Paulo characters really had no purpose. To go through the trouble of green-screening them in just to have the killed off like that...?

 

So, my guess is that we've not seen the last of them. Here are my thoughts...

 

Nikki did say paralyzed, though it was more garbled at the begining so as not it give away;

 

They will return because, remember what Locke said..."Nothing stays buried on this island for long." I may credit the dog (WTF is its name...I forget) with digging them up (or digging enough that people can hear them scream).

 

I think the Sawyer - Jin thing may come in to play towards the end of this season.

 

The more I think about it, the more I believe that they'll both be back...if not, it ends up being kind of a dead-end episode.

You're also forgetting another key quote of the episode when Nikki tells Paulo she hopes/asks him that they don't end up like Shannon and Boone did.

 

The dog's name is Vincent, and yes them raising from the dead makes sense.

 

I'll agree that the episode is going to prove to be more vital then we can understand now. Perhaps the medusa spider will play a key part in the battle against The Others perhaps to fool them into thinking someone is dead when they really aren't and have them raise to attack or perhaps make a key Other paralyzed (like Ben) in order to gain information and/or gain control over the island.

[DrDawkinstein]

They will return because, remember what Locke said..."Nothing stays buried on this island for long."

 

 

good catch! i didnt even put that together!

 

although, i dont know if that was ahint that theyll came back, or just some added irony in an episode set to kill off a couple of characters that were really going no where...

 

we'll see!

[CosmicBills]

As entertaining as it was to see those two get buried alive, I really don't understand the purpose of the entire episode.

 

It was a clip show ... or as close to a clip show as Lost can possibly get.

 

But I also agree with you that they will come back ... they have to.

[stevewin]

It was a clip show ... or as close to a clip show as Lost can possibly get.

 

But I also agree with you that they will come back ... they have to.

This is a excerpt from an article in Entertainment Weekly back in Feb. where they were discussing the upcoming 2nd part of the season:

 

Viewers were certainly interested in chasing away Nikki (Kiele Sanchez) and Paulo (Rodrigo Santoro), those heretofore unseen comely castaways whose wedged-in entrance would've been more stilted only if they'd been wearing winter parkas. While even Lindelof acknowledges that they are ''universally despised'' by fans, that's going to change, he vows: ''We had a plan when we introduced them, and we didn't get to fully execute that plan. But when the plan is executed, Nikki and Paulo will be iconic characters on the show.''

 

Not sure if the plan is fully executed or not...

[UConn James]

I think the Sawyer - Jin thing may come in to play towards the end of this season.

 

For sure. It'll be an interesting dynamic b/w them.... they became friends w/ what went down on the raft & with the tailies. Does that all change? What of Jin's communication barrier and not being able to fully comprehend Sawyer's (and Charlie's) reasons.

 

On that subject, Sawyer definitely seemed to care what the other Lostaways were going to do with the guns as the reason he took them in the first place --- the chance that inexperienced people playing Rambo would hurt themselves more than their targets, and his own understanding of what happens when you kill someone. That you can't take it back, and Nikki, after some cooling off time, I think would have regretted shooting Paulo, much like Kate regrets the hurt or dead string of guys she's left behind. Close similarity b/w her and Kate. Tho, Kate's actions were all toward doing some greater good, even if misguided; Nikki's actions seemed driven entirely by the diamonds. And, too, you have to wonder about the diamond's backstory (they are as much a character now and have a story as any other thing). Where did they come from? How were they gotten by the filmmaker guy? For what purpose were they to be used? Conflict diamonds, perhaps (and a tie-in with Eko?)?

 

You're also forgetting another key quote of the episode when Nikki tells Paulo she hopes/asks him that they don't end up like Shannon and Boone did.

 

And yet they did end up like B&S for the same reason. Lack of communication. Boone died b/c he didn't tell Shannon about the hatch; his letting her go was highlighted in those eps. I don't know how to reconcile that she died while chasing Walt's apparition, I'd have to think about that more.... But Nikki and Paulo were (perhaps) done in by their silence with each other re: the diamonds. (Something that when you think about it, has no real value on the island; their value was contingent on them being saved).

[duey]

Here's an observation I made that could mean nothing..or perhaps something. Has anyone else noticed that pretty much every time Sawyer is shown relaxing, he's reading? Somehow I doubt that James was such an avid reader back home. Could it be that a more cerebreal sawyer is starting to emerge? Could it be that a slow transition is taking place from the bad Sawyer to one that is more of a "good guy?"

 

I just realized that a lot of emphasis is placed on showing him with his nose in a book...in almost every episode. Plus he doesn't seem to worried about Kate, Locke and Sayid being gone.

 

Just food for thought.

[CosmicBills]

Here's an observation I made that could mean nothing..or perhaps something. Has anyone else noticed that pretty much every time Sawyer is shown relaxing, he's reading? Somehow I doubt that James was such an avid reader back home. Could it be that a more cerebreal sawyer is starting to emerge? Could it be that a slow transition is taking place from the bad Sawyer to one that is more of a "good guy?"

 

I just realized that a lot of emphasis is placed on showing him with his nose in a book...in almost every episode. Plus he doesn't seem to worried about Kate, Locke and Sayid being gone.

 

Just food for thought.

But since the beginning of the show he's always been reading.

 

Based on everything we've seen of Sawyer's past, I think he's just a smart guy who gets off making people think he's a redneck. Of course his whole self-loathing/deathwish mojo helps as well.

[duey]

But since the beginning of the show he's always been reading.

 

Based on everything we've seen of Sawyer's past, I think he's just a smart guy who gets off making people think he's a redneck. Of course his whole self-loathing/deathwish mojo helps as well.

But don't you think that being on the island has given him the chance to explore his more thoughtful side? Maybe he's gradually going to become someone who doesn't necessarily want to leave...

[ofiba]

Question. Could Nikki and Paulo see and hear what was going on while everyone thought they were dead? Their eyes were open the whole time. Were they just parlyzed and couldn't move a muscle, or were they also unconscious? It would be pretty interesting if not only do they come back alive, but it turns out they could hear what everyone was saying the whole time while they were "dead". Did they figure out any secrets from other castaways?

[The Jokeman]

Question. Could Nikki and Paulo see and hear what was going on while everyone thought they were dead? Their eyes were open the whole time. Were they just parlyzed and couldn't move a muscle, or were they also unconscious? It would be pretty interesting if not only do they come back alive, but it turns out they could hear what everyone was saying the whole time while they were "dead". Did they figure out any secrets from other castaways?

I'm no medical expert but if someone's heart rate dropped so slow to a point it couldn't be heard and at such a quick rate that they'd lose consciusness and therefore be unable to hear what the other lostaways were saying about them.