RuntheDamnBall Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 So you don't believe that the Exxons, Citgo's, Dominion Power, etc... aren't investing long term in alternative fuels. Companies that make billions typically do so by having a good business model to not only make themselves profitable today, but really look long term at profits as well. I would venture to guess that they are easily the largest investers in alternative fuels. That's also why they probably continue to have record post tax profits by utilizing those tax deductions for creating alternatives. No, I'm certain you're right and I believe they are, but I'm not just talking fuels. And I think that the breaks need to be much more substantial for one vs. almost a penalty for the status quo and operating wastefully. Something that encourages actual transition rather than a simple taking advantage of the breaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 No, I'm certain you're right and I believe they are, but I'm not just talking fuels. And I think that the breaks need to be much more substantial for one vs. almost a penalty for the status quo and operating wastefully. Something that encourages actual transition rather than a simple taking advantage of the breaks. Again, the incentives ahve to be there. Afterall it really isn't "Exxons" money. It is your's and mine since we are the owners of the company through our investments eaither directly in stock purchase or through our mutual funds. We drive their business decisions to make the most profit and to have them take advantage of the tax loopholes to put more money into our retirement, college funds , etc... The only incentive to make the Exxons, Dominions, etc... become even more environmentally friendly as well as less dependant on mid-east oil is to well give them/us incentives to make the stock even more profitable as they are required to make changes. Else they/we the stockholders will not like it very much. The markets fgo down, less money in the economy, and lo and behold, we get laid off. That is their business model and every public companies busines model. The incentive financially has to be there for the stockholders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 As opposed to tax cuts for the poor? Please, explain how a tax cut for the poor would work... We already have that. It's called the EIC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Actually I'm against that, too. Which is much better than the approach you guys SEEM to be taking. If you are going to spend the money then keep the taxes to pay for it. Don't just cut and charge, that's irresponsible. And BTW, pork spending is good, it gives middle class people jobs. Just pay for it, and yes, pay for it by mostly taxing the rich. You may want to move to Venezuela soon. It looks like they are in the early stages of implementing a system that you would love. Except they are taking it 1 step further than even you are advocating at this point, they are about to steal, er, I meant to say, nationalize all the large private businesses. That way they will be able to have lots of pork spending and give middle class people jobs. As if taking their property at below market rates isn't taxing the rich enough, I'm sure their other taxes will keep the system mostly taxing the rich. It sounds like Utopia, you can probably get a plane ticket to there pretty cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molson_golden2002 Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 You may want to move to Venezuela soon. It looks like they are in the early stages of implementing a system that you would love. Except they are taking it 1 step further than even you are advocating at this point, they are about to steal, er, I meant to say, nationalize all the large private businesses. That way they will be able to have lots of pork spending and give middle class people jobs. As if taking their property at below market rates isn't taxing the rich enough, I'm sure their other taxes will keep the system mostly taxing the rich. It sounds like Utopia, you can probably get a plane ticket to there pretty cheap. Blah blah blah....Sure, pork spending=Communism. How stupid! I got an idea. You tax cuters should get together and protest at this work site. You can call the workers theives and say they are earning stolen money. "Hey Hey, Ho Ho, Stolen Tax Money Has Got To Go!" Don't have a cow, just kidding. BTW, Good job Mr. Bush! We thank you http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20070202/1000632.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Blah blah blah....Sure, pork spending=Communism. How stupid! I got an idea. You tax cuters should get together and protest at this work site. You can call the workers theives and say they are earning stolen money. "Hey Hey, Ho Ho, Stolen Tax Money Has Got To Go!" Don't have a cow, just kidding. BTW, Good job Mr. Bush! We thank you http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20070202/1000632.asp How exactly is a courthouse, and one who's construction according to your linked article is the judiciary's #1 priority, pork spending? A courthouse is a building that is required for the judiciary to perform its Constitutionally mandated functions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 How exactly is a courthouse, and one who's construction according to your linked article is the judiciary's #1 priority, pork spending? A courthouse is a building that is required for the judiciary to perform its Constitutionally mandated functions. More to the point, how is building a courthouse going to upgrade the economic development of Buffalo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 More to the point, how is building a courthouse going to upgrade the economic development of Buffalo? A new courthouse will be able to fit more goverment employees. See Molson's brilliant analyst about the goverment creating 'middle class' jobs earlier in the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molson_golden2002 Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 More to the point, how is building a courthouse going to upgrade the economic development of Buffalo? Its one small step, it gives people jobs, middle class people, mostly from taxing the rich. This is going on all over the country, thousands and thousands of jobs all over. So next time you hear a politicians blathering on about cutting pork, just remember he is also blathering on about cutting jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungee Jumper Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Its one small step, it gives people jobs, middle class people, mostly from taxing the rich. Yeah, what the hell, why not try it. It's worked so well over the past few decades, after all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Yeah, what the hell, why not try it. It's worked so well over the past few decades, after all... You couldn't find a better example of an idiot than a guy, living in a region that has lost 50% of its population over 30 years, arguing for extracting more taxes from the "rich." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungee Jumper Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 You couldn't find a better example of an idiot than a guy, living in a region that has lost 50% of its population over 30 years, arguing for extracting more taxes from the "rich." Sorry...the guy who argues that a die has a true value of three and a half is still the bigger idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 You couldn't find a better example of an idiot than a guy, living in a region that has lost 50% of its population over 30 years, arguing for extracting more taxes from the "rich." Don't worry, I'm sure there is an endless supply of "rich" people in WNY that we can keep raising taxes on for decades to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornerville Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Sometimes politicians, journalists and others exclaim; "It's just a tax cut for the rich!" and it is just accepted to be fact, without questioning it. But what does that really mean? Just in case you are not completely clear and/or do not understand this issue, the following should help, if you are a reasonable person. Let's put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand. Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this: The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing. The fifth would pay $1... The sixth would pay $3... The seventh would pay $7. The eighth would pay $12. The ninth would pay $18. The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59. So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until on day, the owner threw them a curve. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20."Drinks for the ten of you now cost just $80. The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?' They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay. And so: The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings). The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings). The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings). The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings). The ninth now paid $14 inste ad of $18 (22% savings). The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings). Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings. "I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man," but he got $10!" "Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!" "That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!" "Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!" The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill! And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking somewhere else where the atmosphere is friendlier. David R. Kamerschen, PhD Professor of Economics University of Georgia One word for the libs after reading this.... PWNED! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molson_golden2002 Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Yeah, what the hell, why not try it. It's worked so well over the past few decades, after all... OMG! Are you really this dumb? I'm talking about PORK, Federal money going to local regions. The whole discussion is federal taxes. Can't you at least try and understand what the topic is? Maybe those voices in your stupid head are too loud or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molson_golden2002 Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 You couldn't find a better example of an idiot than a guy, living in a region that has lost 50% of its population over 30 years, arguing for extracting more taxes from the "rich." No, a better example of an idiot, actually several idiots, would be the clowns like you that live in a country that has the best economy in the world and saying taxes are killing us. Perhaps we should go back to the Republican level of taxation of the 1920's? What a bunch of morons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungee Jumper Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Maybe those voices in your stupid head are too loud or something? Zing! A federal courthouse is pork? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Its one small step, it gives people jobs, middle class people, mostly from taxing the rich. This is going on all over the country, thousands and thousands of jobs all over. So next time you hear a politicians blathering on about cutting pork, just remember he is also blathering on about cutting jobs. You simply have no concept. Thinking the government is creating more jobs than the same amount of money left in the hands of the citizens is pure folly. Just the multiple layers taking their piece off the top via the MIPR process guarantees that just having that money either invested or as spending capital by the private sector would be more effective. That doesn't take into account literally dozens of other factors. Read a GAO study sometime. One of the ones I've seen recently stated that one "Job Creation" bill spawned 35K jobs at the cost of $257,000+ PER JOB. Gee, I wonder why there's a budget deficit? It's just hilarious how much you clowns hate big business but embrace the biggest most corrupt business in human history as your saviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted February 8, 2007 Author Share Posted February 8, 2007 You simply have no concept. Thinking the government is creating more jobs than the same amount of money left in the hands of the citizens is pure folly. Just the multiple layers taking their piece off the top via the MIPR process guarantees that just having that money either invested or as spending capital by the private sector would be more effective. That doesn't take into account literally dozens of other factors. Read a GAO study sometime. One of the ones I've seen recently stated that one "Job Creation" bill spawned 35K jobs at the cost of $257,000+ PER JOB. Gee, I wonder why there's a budget deficit? It's just hilarious how much you clowns hate big business but embrace the biggest most corrupt business in human history as your saviour. My first post, starting this thread. Was understood by the entire class of 5th graders I spoke to this morning. Need I say more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 You simply have no concept. Thinking the government is creating more jobs than the same amount of money left in the hands of the citizens is pure folly. Just the multiple layers taking their piece off the top via the MIPR process guarantees that just having that money either invested or as spending capital by the private sector would be more effective. That doesn't take into account literally dozens of other factors. Read a GAO study sometime. One of the ones I've seen recently stated that one "Job Creation" bill spawned 35K jobs at the cost of $257,000+ PER JOB. Gee, I wonder why there's a budget deficit? It's just hilarious how much you clowns hate big business but embrace the biggest most corrupt business in human history as your saviour. Government = legalized mafia Molson, stay off the crack. Even the voices in tom's head are smarter than you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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