molson_golden2002 Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 Some lawyers sued the tobacco companies in the 1990sStates raised taxes on cigarettes to curb smoking Smugglers circumvent the taxes by buying low and selling high (funny i thought that was good business practice. i guess only when you're buying/selling stocks of faceless corporations that provide income to thousands of employees) Smuggler money goes to Al'Quade Maybe we should throw those lawyers in Guantanamo for assisting Al'Quada Bush assisted al-Quida by invading Iraq, you gonna throw that idiot in jail too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimBob2232 Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 1) New Hampshire isn't the federal government with its massive financial obligations 2) I'll bet the proponents do say that. Now do you understand why they would have an interest in low balling the figure? 3) Black Market everything! How often does this happen today? Often! http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...4-2004Jun7.html Smugglers with ties to terrorist groups are acquiring millions of dollars from illegal cigarette sales and funneling the cash to organizations such as al Qaeda and Hezbollah, federal law enforcement officials say, prompting a nationwide crackdown on black market tobacco. The federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives has more than 300 open cases of illicit cigarette trafficking -- including several with terrorist links -- up from only a handful five years ago, ATF sources said. "This is a major priority for us," said Michael Bouchard, assistant director of the ATF. "The deeper we dig into these cases, the more ties to terrorism we're discovering." The lucrative trafficking of cigarettes, known as cigarette diversion, is a simple scheme but difficult to stop, law enforcement officials say. The traffickers purchase a large volume of cigarettes in states where the tax is low, such as Virginia and North Carolina, transport them up Interstate 95 to states such as Maryland, New York, Pennsylvania and New Jersey and then sell them at a discount without paying the higher cigarette taxes in those states. And this is just one item. You want to do this with everything! What a disaster it would be! Very bad idea What...the...???????? Do you read the stuff you post as gospel to see if it proves your point? Cuz this doesnt help you AT ALL. Taxes are being paid in Virginia. If there was a national sales tax, taxes would STILL be paid in virginia. This purchase would not go un-taxed at the federal level. New York would still be losing out on revenue. This is a serious issue, one which needs to be dealt with. But it offers ZERO proof people would be able to get out of paying a national sales tax on a widespread basis. If it proves anything, it proves that taxes in new york are too high to begin with! This is a law enforcement issue, not a federal taxation issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimBob2232 Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 Bush assisted al-Quida by invading Iraq, you gonna throw that idiot in jail too? And you assisted bush by paying federal taxes last year. Guess its off to the slammer for you as well.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimBob2232 Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 We are headed down the rabbit hole here. I used wealth on purpose. First off, you were not using my argument, you changed it from wealth to income. That is very important. Just because we have an income tax in America doesn't automaticlly mean it is a correct measure of who pays. Many wealthy individuals get out of paying an "income" based tax through stock options and other ways of getting paid. Lots of their taxes are also deferred. Wouldn't that be nice if we could defer payment on most of our income for 20 years or so? And btw, using the "income" tax as a gage excludes SS taxes, local taxes etc., that's very important, and its why Conservatives like to focus just on the income tax. If you want to have a debate on other taxes, I am game for them as well. But this thread has been about income taxes. So am I hearing correctly that you would rather have a "wealth tax" than an "income tax"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molson_golden2002 Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 What...the...???????? Do you read the stuff you post as gospel to see if it proves your point? Cuz this doesnt help you AT ALL. Taxes are being paid in Virginia. If there was a national sales tax, taxes would STILL be paid in virginia. This purchase would not go un-taxed at the federal level. New York would still be losing out on revenue. This is a serious issue, one which needs to be dealt with. But it offers ZERO proof people would be able to get out of paying a national sales tax on a widespread basis. If it proves anything, it proves that taxes in new york are too high to begin with! This is a law enforcement issue, not a federal taxation issue. Oh come on. You think the United States exists in a vacuum? How many illegal immigrants flow over the border each year? And if you think Americans wouldn't cheat on a national sales tax on a wide scale you don't understand human nature. I pay something like $12,000 a year in federal taxes. You think people are not going to look to black market to reduce that figure? If they will do it for cigs they will do it for clothes, shoes, cars everything. The National Sales tax would turn so many average citizens into criminals that the law would soon become a joke, much like Prohibition was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molson_golden2002 Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 If you want to have a debate on other taxes, I am game for them as well. But this thread has been about income taxes. So am I hearing correctly that you would rather have a "wealth tax" than an "income tax"? I'm not doing anything of the sort, I'm just shwing that that parable that was originally posted was silly. I stated my problem with the tax cuts and on your 'solution' to the income tax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molson_golden2002 Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 And you assisted bush by paying federal taxes last year. Guess its off to the slammer for you as well.. I just called the police and reported the money was stolen by the federal government. What the criminals did with the money is not my fault I gotta fly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimBob2232 Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 Oh come on. You think the United States exists in a vacuum? How many illegal immigrants flow over the border each year? And if you think Americans wouldn't cheat on a national sales tax on a wide scale you don't understand human nature. I pay something like $12,000 a year in federal taxes. You think people are not going to look to black market to reduce that figure? If they will do it for cigs they will do it for clothes, shoes, cars everything. The National Sales tax would turn so many average citizens into criminals that the law would soon become a joke, much like Prohibition was. The only thing thats a joke is how much money we pay in federal taxes. I dont see widespread evasion of income taxes. I dont see widespread evasion of state sales taxes. I dont see a widespread evasion of national sales taxes if invoked. I just dont see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 Bush assisted al-Quida by invading Iraq, you gonna throw that idiot in jail too? Couldn't come up with a better retort than BushBad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 I'm not doing anything of the sort, I'm just shwing that that parable that was originally posted was silly. I stated my problem with the tax cuts and on your 'solution' to the income tax All you're doing is displaying your ignorance by refusing to acknowledge the entire issue. Tax "cuts" is completely meaningless without an examination of what they are being 'cut' from. What is meaningful is who is paying how much in total taxes. This is why the example in the first post is spot on. Any evaluation of the evidence makes it obvious that the tax burden in this country is almost entirely paid by a small percentage of its citizens. But keep on spouting nonsense and BUSH BAD! instead of going to the IRS website and looking at tax stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted February 3, 2007 Author Share Posted February 3, 2007 All you're doing is displaying your ignorance by refusing to acknowledge the entire issue. Tax "cuts" is completely meaningless without an examination of what they are being 'cut' from. What is meaningful is who is paying how much in total taxes. This is why the example in the first post is spot on. Any evaluation of the evidence makes it obvious that the tax burden in this country is almost entirely paid by a small percentage of its citizens. But keep on spouting nonsense and BUSH BAD! instead of going to the IRS website and looking at tax stats. Amazing, isn't it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molson_golden2002 Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 1) The only thing thats a joke is how much money we pay in federal taxes. 2)I dont see widespread evasion of income taxes. I dont see widespread evasion of state sales taxes. I dont see a widespread evasion of national sales taxes if invoked. I just dont see it. 1) And how will a national sales tax make any difference? You really think we will suddenly pay fewer taxes? 2) Because state sales taxes are much lower and don't even cover the states budget. How in the world will a national sales tax cover the massive budget of the federal government at 17%? Can't do it! More like 30% sales tax, and a disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molson_golden2002 Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 All you're doing is displaying your ignorance by refusing to acknowledge the entire issue. Tax "cuts" is completely meaningless without an examination of what they are being 'cut' from. What is meaningful is who is paying how much in total taxes. This is why the example in the first post is spot on. Any evaluation of the evidence makes it obvious that the tax burden in this country is almost entirely paid by a small percentage of its citizens. But keep on spouting nonsense and BUSH BAD! instead of going to the IRS website and looking at tax stats. Hey moron, if you have something to post from the IRS web site, post it, if not buzz off. I stand by my claim that that simple little parable which is falsely attributed to an economist, is crap. Do you think the rich pay too much in taxes? Is that what you are crying about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 Hey moron, if you have something to post from the IRS web site, post it, if not buzz off. I stand by my claim that that simple little parable which is falsely attributed to an economist, is crap. The last time I checked, you weren't in charge around here. The next time I send you packing, you won't be creating a new user name. It wouldn't be the IRS web site, either. The information is available from the CBO. The top quintile in the United States, which includes households earning above $84000.00 annually, provides nearly EIGHTY THREE PERCENT of all income tax and 66% of ALL federal receipts. The bottom quintile pays about 1.1% of federal receipts and virtually no income tax. The top quintile also provides about 33% of all productivity. Do you think the rich pay too much in taxes? Is that what you are crying about? Unlike you, he actually understands what's going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobblehead Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this: Not to be a party-pooper, but why isn't this little parable about the $7.00 sales tax for the beer instead of the $100 cost of the beer in the first place? I dont think guy #10 gets his ass beat over his portion of $7.00. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 I stand by my claim that that simple little parable which is falsely attributed to an economist, is crap. And you can back this claim by...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 And you can back this claim by...... ...by persisting in confusing "tax cuts" with "redistribution of wealth", I'll wager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 Do you think the rich pay too much in taxes? Is that what you are crying about? No, not too much, because what is too much. We feel they pay more than their fair share. I consider myself far from rich but pay more in taxes than most of the "poor" folks make each year. Oh and by the way, people making $100k and less can now deduct PMI, but other than that tax cuts are only for the rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 No love here... If the 10th guy (the richest) is say a multi-millionarie... Why doesn't he just pick up the tab (and pay the chump change of 100 bucks) for the other nine dudes... I presume his buddy's?... You do drink with your buddy's? That is the honorable thing to do, right? ... Or is he a schmuck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 Hey libs, facts suck, don't they!? So do tight wad millionaire drinking buddy's that won't pick up the tab for their low-life friends! If Michael Jordan was your drinking buddy, who wouldn't leach off him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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