chicot Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 Regardless, he's assumed unchecked power over the country since then. I guess that's all fine and dandy with you as long as he preaches his socialist bullsh--? Never said his new powers were "fine and dandy", but I still think that announcing the death of Venezuelan democracy is somewhat premature. I also think all this ranting and raving about Chavez undermining democracy is highly hypocritical when there was no such outcry when his democratically elected government was almost forced out by a military coup in 2002. For some reason, the media, even the US government seemed to regard that as some sort of "victory for democracy"?! I guess military coups are all fine and dandy as long as they get rid of elected governments that the US doesn't like. Reporting the 2002 coup attempt As for his socialist bullsh--, it's very easy for people enjoying a high standard of living in the US to pour scorn on Chavez's social reforms. I think, however, that if you happened to be a Venezuelan peasant receiving access to decent healthcare and education for the first time, you may see things somewhat differently. In fact, it's quite likely you'd be placing an "X" next to the name of Chavez at the ballot box (there is actually a reason why Chavez enjoys massive support amongst the poor). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 Hey cupcake, in case you didn't know, we don't live in Venezuela. It's not as important as Bush f'n up. Is that easy enough to understand? "We dont live in Venezuela" Thats a real enlightened "World View" ya got there, drunky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 (there is actually a reason why Chavez enjoys massive support amongst the poor). Yes, because they're ignorant and illiterate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivier in france Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 Never said his new powers were "fine and dandy", but I still think that announcing the death of Venezuelan democracy is somewhat premature. I also think all this ranting and raving about Chavez undermining democracy is highly hypocritical when there was no such outcry when his democratically elected government was almost forced out by a military coup in 2002. For some reason, the media, even the US government seemed to regard that as some sort of "victory for democracy"?! I guess military coups are all fine and dandy as long as they get rid of elected governments that the US doesn't like. Reporting the 2002 coup attempt As for his socialist bullsh--, it's very easy for people enjoying a high standard of living in the US to pour scorn on Chavez's social reforms. I think, however, that if you happened to be a Venezuelan peasant receiving access to decent healthcare and education for the first time, you may see things somewhat differently. In fact, it's quite likely you'd be placing an "X" next to the name of Chavez at the ballot box (there is actually a reason why Chavez enjoys massive support amongst the poor). Well i'd like to share your optimism Chicot but i've never heard about a socialist-communist ruler taking all the powers in its country that did not become a true blue dictator... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdh1 Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 Where would he get such a cockamamie idea? We've never intervened in Latin America before. Planning for a massive invasion? No I don't think so. If we get that desperate for oil, we can drill our own. It would be a lot cheaper to buy off all the Dems in Congress who would oppose it than to invade Chavezland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 As for his socialist bullsh--, it's very easy for people enjoying a high standard of living in the US to pour scorn on Chavez's social reforms. I think, however, that if you happened to be a Venezuelan peasant receiving access to decent healthcare and education for the first time, you may see things somewhat differently. In fact, it's quite likely you'd be placing an "X" next to the name of Chavez at the ballot box (there is actually a reason why Chavez enjoys massive support amongst the poor). To avoid multiple replies: Yes, the last election, along with the 2004 referendum was a sham because by controlling the government and media Chavez blocked the opposition from staging political campaigns that are taken for granted in real democracies. We can throw in the voter registrations which exceeded the population numbers in districts heavily weighted towards Chavez. But hey, the Carter Center certified the elections, so they must be legit. Never mind his nationalizing the national telecoms & oil, and soon to be taking the broadcast license away from the only independent TV station in Caracas. And of course, following the long history of successful socialist transformations of national economies, he throws his support for that beacon of economic vitality ... Cuba. Yup, the average Venezuelan sure stands to benefit over the long term from Hugo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted February 2, 2007 Author Share Posted February 2, 2007 (there is actually a reason why Chavez enjoys massive support amongst the poor). Yes. It's called ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicot Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 To avoid multiple replies: Yes, the last election, along with the 2004 referendum was a sham because by controlling the government and media Chavez blocked the opposition from staging political campaigns that are taken for granted in real democracies. We can throw in the voter registrations which exceeded the population numbers in districts heavily weighted towards Chavez. But hey, the Carter Center certified the elections, so they must be legit. Never mind his nationalizing the national telecoms & oil, and soon to be taking the broadcast license away from the only independent TV station in Caracas. And of course, following the long history of successful socialist transformations of national economies, he throws his support for that beacon of economic vitality ... Cuba. Yup, the average Venezuelan sure stands to benefit over the long term from Hugo. Fair comment about the TV station licence but how exactly are his nationalization plans an attack on democracy? And I know that anything associated with the name "Carter" is automatically derided on this board, which is why I didn't mention the Carter centre. There were also observers from the OAS and EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/a...-news-a_section No mention at all here of Chavez assuming dictator level powers yesterday? Good thing socialism through dictatorship has such a long history of success. I'm sure the average Venezuelan will see a dramatic improvment in their quality of life. Its a screwed up world we live in....I don't think people on either side of the fence would disagree with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 Sad but kinda true. That's what happens when the likes of BiB and KRC are replaced with molson. What happened to Ken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 Fair comment about the TV station licence but how exactly are his nationalization plans an attack on democracy? I take it we got up on the naive side of the bed this week. I can't imagine how an impoverished country, where the major revenue producing companies have been nationalized and that the main source of support for the poor population is state handouts, wouldn't be a viable democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 What happened to Ken? We're not sure, but think this is what happened to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicot Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 I take it we got up on the naive side of the bed this week. I can't imagine how an impoverished country, where the major revenue producing companies have been nationalized and that the main source of support for the poor population is state handouts, wouldn't be a viable democracy. I see. So democratically elected governments, even if they were elected with a mandate to nationalize these companies, are not supposed to nationalize them because to do so would somehow be undemocratic?! Bizarre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 I see. So democratically elected governments, even if they were elected with a mandate to nationalize these companies, are not supposed to nationalize them because to do so would somehow be undemocratic?! Bizarre. Maybe you can point to where Chavez ran on a nationalizing platform, as opposed to announcing the nationalization after the election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 We're not sure, but think this is what happened to him. Ken couldn't be President, so he is running for Llama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 For what it's worth, some detail not found in a drudge link. venezuela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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