In space no one can hear Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 Thanks Canada for building that ditch The Welland Canal!! The Welland Canal in Canada allowed ships on the Great Lakes to bypass Buffalo altogether on their way to the Saint Lawrence Seaway. This more than any other reason contributed to the decline of Buffalo. If they didn't build that damn canal we wouldn't have to worry about losing our beloved Bills!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 Yeah let flutie play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 It was Polian's fault. All he had to do was draft Steve Christie in the 11th round (we traded the 12th rounder) in 1990 instead of Al Edwards & the kick would have been good. Yeah, but who did we get for the 12th rounder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 Man, oh man, that one hurt almost as much as any loss just because it would have been so cool to beat the Oakland Raiders with a halfback playing quarterback in Oakland no less. But if Rutkowski does not fumble that snap, the Bills do not get the first draft pick and Philly gets O.J. and we get Leroy Keyes. So, I guess it worked out except for the double murder part. Also in not getting O.J. we would never had gotten Jim Kelly due to the fact we acquired a pick from the 49ers that we turned into Tom Cousineau He was then traded from the Bills to the Cleveland Browns for a first round draft choice (14th overall) in the 1983 NFL Draft[3]. That pick was used on future Hall of Fame quarterback Jim Kelly. Of course had the 49ers held onto that top pick in 1979 they might have taken a QB named Phil Sims in the 1st Round instead of Joe Montana, who would have been available with the Bills 4th Round pick that was one pick after Joe was taken with the final pick of the 3rd Round... Of course OT George Kunz was actually the second player taken overall (Keyes went 4th) and we did take a RB with our 2nd Round pick in that same draft we took OJ so things could have been further alterted. Or if want to go one step further we could have taken a DT named Joe Greene who went third overall. As we did take a DT with our top pick in 1970 named Al Cowlings who likely would have never been taken if never took OJ as well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoho Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 Also in not getting O.J. we would never had gotten Jim Kelly due to the fact we acquired a pick from the 49ers that we turned into Tom Cousineau He was then traded from the Bills to the Cleveland Browns for a first round draft choice (14th overall) in the 1983 NFL Draft[3]. That pick was used on future Hall of Fame quarterback Jim Kelly. Of course had the 49ers held onto that top pick in 1979 they might have taken a QB named Phil Sims in the 1st Round instead of Joe Montana, who would have been available with the Bills 4th Round pick that was one pick after Joe was taken with the final pick of the 3rd Round... Of course OT George Kunz was actually the second player taken overall (Keyes went 4th) and we did take a RB with our 2nd Round pick in that same draft we took OJ so things could have been further alterted. Or if want to go one step further we could have taken a DT named Joe Greene who went third overall. As we did take a DT with our top pick in 1970 named Al Cowlings who likely would have never been taken if never took OJ as well.... So if Rutkowski hadn't fumbled, the course of human events as we know it would have been severely altered. OJ would have left his first wife for a Philly girl, Montana woud have been cut from the Bills and forgotten, Gary McDermott could have kept wearing #32, the Electric Company would have been known as the Mighty Locks because they led the way for Keyes, Johnnie Cochrane would still be chasing ambulances in L.A and Harvey Johnson might have been fired several years earlier. So, do not go back in time and turn that Rutkowsi fumble around. You kids might not even be here. Who knows how many of you were conceived after an exciting Bills victory in a celebration that may have never happened. Actually this would be a great premise for an article by a sportswriter some off season. How one play in some random game could have changed events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justnzane Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 So if Rutkowski hadn't fumbled, the course of human events as we know it would have been severely altered. OJ would have left his first wife for a Philly girl, Montana woud have been cut from the Bills and forgotten, Gary McDermott could have kept wearing #32, the Electric Company would have been known as the Mighty Locks because they led the way for Keyes, Johnnie Cochrane would still be chasing ambulances in L.A and Harvey Johnson might have been fired several years earlier. So, do not go back in time and turn that Rutkowsi fumble around. You kids might not even be here. Who knows how many of you were conceived after an exciting Bills victory in a celebration that may have never happened. Actually this would be a great premise for an article by a sportswriter some off season. How one play in some random game could have changed events. well i was conceived during a 2-14 season IIRC. so my chances are low Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoho Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 well i was conceived during a 2-14 season IIRC. so my chances are low Condolence sex. Dad would be miserable all Sunday evening if Mom did not find a way to cheer him up. Oops. sorry, that is your parents I am talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justnzane Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 Condolence sex. Dad would be miserable all Sunday evening if Mom did not find a way to cheer him up. Oops. sorry, that is your parents I am talking about. eh. its ok... I actually get a chuckle out of how my parents met: They met a bar, he was 23 and she had a fake ID and was actually 15 So I am guessing, that alcohol/ weed/ blow had to have some influence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 Actually I think it had less to do with money -- and more to do with the manner in which the players felt that they were being treated. TD had a knack for putting out a "Take it or leave it!" offer that was often viewed by the players as being insulting. He would then demonize the player in the press to make them seem greedy for not accepting his low-ball offer. Many of us admire TD at the time for driving a hard bargain, but (in the long run) I think it had a negative toll. I think Marv has done some positive things (including the way he handled the troy Vincent situation last year) to help turn that feeling around. That is one reason why I don't think that we can write off Nate coming back so quickly. Of course, Nate's situation is much different than, say, Pat's was because Pat really wanted to stay here -- and a reasonable offer would have kept him from ever testing the free agency market. The contract he signed with the Vikings was not THAT extravagant. As for Nate, we all know that his goal is to see how much he can get paid in free agency. A player has the right to test the market, and the front office shouldn't be vindictive, when the said player chooses to do so. At least Marv has done a decent job of building up morale to make players WANT to stay here. If Nate prices himself out of our reach, then so be it -- but at least it won't be because he felt disrespected by the current organization and went somewhere he felt wanted. My recollection was that why these players left was due mainly due two different reasons only one of which even remotely had to with TDs negotiating style. First Ruben was cut by the Bills even though there was no cap advantage to cutting him (the savings in salary saved was about equal to costs of accelerating the bonus paid to the cap) as best as I could tell because he had the temerity to publicly challenge the OC, Kevin Killdrive for mishandling the play calling. Ruben came to his teammates defense when Travis Henry called Killdrive on being too pass happy and not running enough with a game left in the season. Ruben was actually benched and possibly even suspended for the last game that season and as Killdrive got canned, Ruben was proved right. However, TD seemed to care more about Rubem being insubordinate rather than him being right and despite some of the blame for Ruben's public taking on of Gilbride being laid on Ruben's wife going through a difficult health issue and him publicly saying he was willing to take a pay cut to stay he got canned Any my way or the highway seemed to have little to do with this as Ruben seemed willing to eat crow and do it his way but he got the highway anyway. The Phat Pat case may have involved a little bit more of a negotiations issue as what seemed to happen was that TD was playing it tough with PWs agent and apparently told Phat Pat that negotiations were over and he took the Vikes offer/ TD then publicly accused Phat Pat's agent of not representing PW well as he was being tough but that clearly negotiations were not done and when push came to shove he would have gone higher to get Pat Pat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 I guess I just don't see the need to bring TD up over this. A big reason many feel we have a bright future is from TD led signings. Hindsight has shown that he actually was a damn good assembler of talent. His downfall was not finding the right coach to put it together and not upgrading the line. Sprinkle in a little Drew Bledsoe and you have enough to show why the talent never produced in the win column. Come 2007, only eight of TD's draft picks are expected to be starters for the Bills, and that's if we re-sign Clements. To find eight starters over five years of drafting isn't exactly the mark of a world-class assembler of talent. Nor can you really say that there are a bunch of TD draft picks who got released from the team and are finding success elsewhere. But maybe when you described "TD led signings" you had his free agent acquisitions in mind. Other than Jason Peters (signed as a UDFA), I can't think of any TD signings we can fully rely upon going into 2007. Not Spikes due to injury concerns. Not Fletcher because of age and contract status. Not Gandy due to contract status and questions about his play. Certainly not Villarrial. Did TD completely waste his five years here? No. He gave us players like Aaron Schobel, Angelo Crowell, Lee Evans, and Jason Peters. Not terrible, but an average NFL GM could have done the same or better over that span of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typical TBD Guy Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 Hindsight has shown that he actually was a damn good assembler of talent. Aside from the first day of the 2001 draft, the 2003 draft after the 1st round, and the 1st round of the 2004 draft, TD was flat out TERRIBLE in drafting talent. His eye for free agent talent was probably worse. Moorman, Peters, TKO, and F-B were the only free agents of true worth. After 5 years, you'd expect more. And we already know his Buffalo legacy for evaluating coaching talent. Oh yeah, and his teams' overall record...4th worst ahead of the Lions, Cardinals, and Texans. Yippy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haven Moses Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 So if Rutkowski hadn't fumbled, the course of human events as we know it would have been severely altered. OJ would have left his first wife for a Philly girl, Montana woud have been cut from the Bills and forgotten, Gary McDermott could have kept wearing #32, the Electric Company would have been known as the Mighty Locks because they led the way for Keyes, Johnnie Cochrane would still be chasing ambulances in L.A and Harvey Johnson might have been fired several years earlier. So, do not go back in time and turn that Rutkowsi fumble around. You kids might not even be here. Who knows how many of you were conceived after an exciting Bills victory in a celebration that may have never happened. Actually this would be a great premise for an article by a sportswriter some off season. How one play in some random game could have changed events. And Mini Max Anderson would have become the NFL's all time leading rusher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 I think Marv has done some positive things (including the way he handled the troy Vincent situation last year) to help turn that feeling around. That is one reason why I don't think that we can write off Nate coming back so quickly. I think Marv handling of Troy Vincent was financially a very poor decision...If the team felt in week 1 that they would like to put Simpson in rather than Vincent down the road, they should have done it in week1 and cut Vincent before opening day....They would have saved 2.8M salary....The reason I bring this up is, we all talk about how tough it is for RW to spend money...and here we were throwing away 2.8M away for nothing.....which could been added to a Nate Clements contract.... Similarly, Price was being offered minimum wages ($700K or something like that) and with no one bidding for his service we went out and gave him a 2M signing bonus and a 10M contract.....We were literally throwing away 2M bucks that could have been used for someone else. Similarly, with Reed, only Carolina had some interest in him.....Even if we had lost out to Carolina, it might not have been that big a difference, as we had comparable WRs in Andre Davis and Parrish on the roster already....Why did we have to pay 2M signing bonus to a player who has underachieved so much.... That is a total of 7M dollars that they could have used for other players contracts if necessary....Considering how the Bills are always in a cash-crunch playing in the smallest market, it would have been better of to use the money wisely..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 So if Rutkowski hadn't fumbled, the course of human events as we know it would have been severely altered. OJ would have left his first wife for a Philly girl, Montana woud have been cut from the Bills and forgotten, Gary McDermott could have kept wearing #32, the Electric Company would have been known as the Mighty Locks because they led the way for Keyes, Johnnie Cochrane would still be chasing ambulances in L.A and Harvey Johnson might have been fired several years earlier. So, do not go back in time and turn that Rutkowsi fumble around. You kids might not even be here. Who knows how many of you were conceived after an exciting Bills victory in a celebration that may have never happened. Actually this would be a great premise for an article by a sportswriter some off season. How one play in some random game could have changed events. That is just awesome. Very cool premise.It would be a very good article, you should develop it on your own !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haven Moses Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 That is just awesome. Very cool premise.It would be a very good article, you should develop it on your own !!!! Dennis Shaw to Haven Moses would become the most prolific passing combo in history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoho Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 That is just awesome. Very cool premise.It would be a very good article, you should develop it on your own !!!! Maybe OJ could write it. "How I would have done it if I had really been drafted by the Eagles". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 The Phat Pat case may have involved a little bit more of a negotiations issue as what seemed to happen was that TD was playing it tough with PWs agent and apparently told Phat Pat that negotiations were over and he took the Vikes offer/ TD then publicly accused Phat Pat's agent of not representing PW well as he was being tough but that clearly negotiations were not done and when push came to shove he would have gone higher to get Pat Pat. despite the disrespectful way pat was treated by the bills (and specifically by TD), he still did give them the right to match the offer from the vikes..........the bills determined he was not worth the price, which was an absolute joke given how fair the numbers were....... big mistake, and the bills are still paying for it.........but hey, just one of many mistakes from TD that set this franchise back years.......add it to the list and move on, nothing can be done now what i do find most intriguing is how many on this board blindly supported that move when it happened........certainly were a lot of posters who thought that was the right way to handle it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornerville Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 Bills should have given Bruce Mathinson more time to develop as a QB!!! Why did they use Old Man Vince? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 eh. its ok... I actually get a chuckle out of how my parents met: They met a bar, he was 23 and she had a fake ID and was actually 15 So I am guessing, that alcohol/ weed/ blow had to have some influence. 15'll get ya 10. just ask that joker in GA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketch Soland Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 LG and NT have been problem areas for our team for years. Since Satan Donahoe let Rueben Brown and Pat Williams leave, saying they were both done. This year, both Rueben and Fat Pat go to the Pro Bowl. And Pat should have made it last year as well. Both guys live in Buffalo (still), are respected locker room guys, are playing at a high level at obvious need positions for us, and yet Satan Donahoe's hubris was so great that he let both go, because they weren't "his" players. If these holes are not filled this offseason, that will have been 4 years for NT and 6 years for LG, that we have been desperately trying to fill these holes. Talk about setting a franchise back...Hey Donahoe... you!!! Donahoe's gone? I shouldn't have bought that gray fox scarf!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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