Enough with this, draft a DT with...

[Pyrite Gal]

Why do you constantly post about the learning curve for MLB???

Other posters have refuted your assertions many,many times and I'll just use one name Lofi Tatupu.(who was drafted much lower than Willis will be).

 

Also, it really hasn't been determined yet if Crowell will be moved to the middle- negating this whole argument.

 

My guess is Willis might not have the pass coverage skills or pure speed that cover two's look for at the linebacker position anyways.

 

I actually must have missed my MLB views being refuted many times so my apologies and bear with me if you can and refute them again.

 

Tatupu is a good example of an MLB who started immediately as a rookie and was a key part of the defense of a team with a winning record. My question though is what type of D scheme does Seattle employ (I have not seen this left coast team at all so greater knowledge is appreciated), but my point has never been that one does not play rookies in important positions immediately (Whitner is a real world example close to home) my point has been that in our Tampa 2 type scheme where the MLB is called upon to play a run plugging and a deep zone role at the same time, this is where the learning curve exists for us an a case would need to be made that Willis is just the man with just the background to play this diverse role for us as a starter.

 

If Seattle does not employ a Tampa 2 style where Tatupu is called upon to play this same diverse role (which F-B rode to be the leading LB INT guy in the NFL then this is an example of how a rookie can start immediately (which I have always said is obviously possible though not guranteed in any particular case) but is actually not an example that we should expect or reasonably hope a rookie or Willis can do this role.

 

In fact, even in the case of the role being a more simple straightforward LB role, the past occurence is that it is a 50/50 proposition that a 1st round choice will be adequate to the job. In fact, if one looks at last years real world accomplishments of the SS players where we were looking for an immediate difference maker, the factoids which hold this Marv led decision in good stead is that of the three SS players taken in the first round, Whitner had a demonstrably better performance than 3rd choice Allen who we may well have ended up with if we had traded down and either DET chose Whitner at #9 (not an impossible or even unlikely option as they chose SS Bullocks in Rd. 2 or the Fins seeing us trading down might have jumped ahead of us if they also were psyched about Whitner. In fact, Whitner produced better than any of the 1st day choices (Manning and Pollard in addition to the folks listed above) and this simply goes to show how risky it would be to rely on any rookie to fill a critical role for us as draft choices can turn out to be Peyton Manning or they can turn out to Ryan Leaf.

 

I do not know whether Tatapu is a good indication that Willis could fill the complex MLB role for us as a rookie because it is unclear whether their MLB use is as diverse as ours and even if they do run a Tampa 2, then a case would need to be made that Willis has the zone coverage skills to do the job.

 

Judging from the difficulties he apparently had with even one-on-one coverage in the senior bowl it sound pretty questionable that he would be a good fit for our scheme.

 

I also added the point that his dropping in the pundits eyes is a good thing for those who want him and also for the Bills production not because I advocate starting an even lower drafted player at MLB, it is actually because if he were a 2nd round drafted player, there would be significantly less pressure or call on him to start.

 

This is the reason I think it works best for us if we must have Willis if for F-B to be resigned because then we have no need to throw him in right away at MLB. I think this is unlikely but a better option for the team than what appears to be a bad option for us of drafting him to start at MLB.

[Pyrite Gal]

Seriously the problem in the past for the Bills has been a "build for the future" mentality. Drafting Willis M. is an example. We had a pro-bowl back and waste a first round pick on a guy who literally can't play for at least one year and then get rid of the probowl back. We cut players and let our best players leave in free agency. What on earth makes you think we had a "win now" attitude before this? Since Wade Phillips what coach has said "we're going to the playoffs this year?" ( he didn't either...but he certainly began the season with that expectation, as did Marv before him) NONE...The problem is we DON'T have a win now attitude. I think that may change with the present administration. In my opinion they should have drafted Ngata last year, but the Whitner selection paid off...THIS YEAR as did most of their picks.

 

I think the Bills have had a history kind of like the way an admissions counselor makes love...he sits on the side of the bed and tells you how good its going to be.

As the poet says..."A man's reach should exceed his grasp..or what's a heaven for?"

 

Time to get down to business and win, baby, win.

 

Though I think that the correct theory is to build for the future, I think I agree with your perspectives which emphasize the importance of the immediate because I think while theory and principle are certainly great things, it is simply the real world which dictates action.

 

In the real world, the Bills business has not been in the playoffs since the 99 season. In the real world, Ralph and Marv will not die tomorrow (probably) but the clock is ticking.

 

Build a team for the future is THE intelligent way to build a team. However, history, age, and the simple fact that our culture constantly demands your business produce now (and I mean NOW) conspire with other things that the theory may be great but simply has little relevance to what we will and must do.

[BillsVet]

I don't think anyone would argue about the correct way to build a team. Dan Snyder has been messing it up for years now, and where has it got Washington? Still, I think the point to take away is we've been an below average to average team for a long time. And that's putting it lightly.

 

There's no way around seeing that fans started going away last year. Not selling out four games when the rest of the NFL has two non-sellouts is an indication that we'd better start thinking win now. Patience isn't a thing enough people have in our day and age. However, I think fans deserve to know their team wants to win as soon as possible. I just hope Marv doesn't think he can build the team in 2007 like Polian, Butler, et al built it 20 years ago. It's a different league. The draft and bargain FA's isn't gonna provide everything for you.

[Bill from NYC]

I'm becoming despondent as the thought that The Bills are simply a farm team gains traction in my belief system.

 

You have every right to feel this way. The worst part is that it doesn't have to be.

 

Poster after poster will tell you how great it was that Marv drafted Whitner at #8. They will point to his tackle stats. If the Bills had solid lines up the middle on BOTH sides, no safety would have had to make as many tackles.

A solid group of DTs would have kept runners from getting downfield for him to make the play. A solid OL would have afforded the Bills yet more time of possession, and weakened opposing defenses.

 

Again, this is the past. Marv DOES deserve more than 1 season to prove that he can do something other than draft (and of course sign UFA) defensive backs. The Bills will NOT be a playoff team unless the play at DT and OG improves dramatically. It is not possible to match Mike Gandy and Duke Preston up against the likes of the very good defensive football players on teams such as NE and Chi. We proved this time and again this season.

 

All of us will find out very soon if Marv has a clue. Your guess is as good as mine.

[tennesseeboy]

Polian is a good example of turnaround, making the Colts competitive in two years (12-3 record in his second year). He came to Buffalo in 1986 and moved quickly to build a winning team out of what had been a nightmare. I believe now the "future" is a much shorter time frame to work with...three years at most. Draft Clements...Draft Winfield. Play together...lose Winfield...lose Clements...hardly much room to build a great team.

 

I think the way to build a winning team is by instilling a winning tradition. Winning begets winning. Hence build the best team you can for next season. You do that by improving your teams weak areas. Run defense and pass blocking...hence Okoye, Branch, Blaylock or plug in your favorite offensive or defensive lineman in an area of need. That's where we have to improve to begin winning on a regular basis.

[Oneonta Buffalo Fan]

9. Amobi Okoye, DT, Louisville (6-1½, 298) | previous: 13

A four-year veteran, and he is only 19 years old. Okoye is quick and explosive and goes all-out on every play. He is not only good at eating up space but also gets good penetration into the backfield.

Why on earth would we want to waste a pick on a guy like that?

 

I REALLY HOPE WE GET HIM!

[ganesh]

its possible, with a few good moves(and luck) that we make the playoffs this year.

 

As long as they don't trade away their draft picks or future picks that is ok. The few good moves are the moves they have to make in FA, not by trading away your picks or making luxury picks just because we have an extra pick. I liked the McCargo pick, but I think it was not a good choice for a down-the-dumps football team to lose a 1st day pick to get a player. I would have rather stayed with the draft and got a Ryan McNeil with that 2nd round pick and still picked a DT with the 3rd rounder that we gave up.

 

im not saying we cant be contenders for another 5 years. im saying that with the right building plan, we can be competitive this year and IN THE PLAYOFFS for the next 5 years.

 

Agreed. Other than the Chicago and New England game, we were competitive in many games...but also were shut out in the last 7-8 minutes of the final quarter in quite a few games. We need talent to over come that. But I think we are closer, especially if the Offense can continue its growth.

 

if you really think this team is ready to go FAR into the playoffs next year, i have to wonder what team youve been watching? i think we need to shoot for a WINNING RECORD before we expect this team to go far into the playoffs. Winning record and wild card spot this year is a reasonable expectation. then we KEEP BUILDING, and can be a good playoff team for the next 5-10 years and actually have a shot at the championship.

 

I am fine with taking Baby steps....but if this team is reasonably close to taking that second step, anything is possible in the playoffs....A momentum filled young Steelers team won the super bowl a season ago....You don't have to be the most talented team to make the superbowl....The Chargers by far were the most talented on offense and defense, but they just couldn't make the correct plays in the playoffs.

[tennesseeboy]

Capable of going far into the playoffs? Certainly. Losman is looking like a first rate quarterback. McGahee is a slightly above average running back who MIGHT be better than that. the Price, Reed Parrish combination is held questionable by some but I think they make a very good #2 and #3. Evans on the other hand is a premier receiver. Royal is a vast improvement at tight end (although a possible soft spot.) Special teams are as good as anyone's and we have a superbowl punter and kicker. We have good tackles and have to shore up the center (hence the draft and free agency...two players.).

 

Defense? Whitner and Simpson are good rookies and will be better next year. Spikes should be recovered next year and Crowell and Ellison are looking good. Fletcher is a (many disagree with me apparently) good linebacker, but if we have to get someone else it will be through free agency. A rookie MLB is not going to take us into the playoffs next year. I think Clements is one of the best centers in the game. Pay him and keep him in my scenario. McGee had a less than stellar year, but lets see what Youbooty or Thomas has to keep the pressure on. The D line can't stop the running game, but is solid at the defensive end position (keep Kelsay.) I think Williams, Triplett, and maybe McCargo are nice, but we need a run stopper outstanding DT with our first pick to make things happen..Okoye or Branch.

 

I see NO reason we shouldn't go to the playoffs. Hell we were one game from getting there this year with piss poor run blocking and going through a good part of the season with no pass blocking and getting better with a two tight end, and Cieslak at fullback gerrymandered pass blocking scheme. I think we can fix those things and do well.

 

Some people look at things the way they are and say why,

Others look at what might be and say "why not?"

 

Winning is about attititude. Get with the winning attitude.

[tennesseeboy]

whoops...clements cornerback.

[JStranger76]

I agree with some pushing for an anchor type DT( Ian Scott, Terell Sands ), but with him hopefully currently working out and all offseason, maybe John McCargo can fill the anchor role with Kyle Williams ( also having a good offseason to get stronger ), affording us the luxury of rotating Tripplett and ( if he's even available ) Okoye at the 3 technique. If you read BillsDaily write up on McCargo our scouts claimed he had NT potential, but that remains to be seen. While on the subject of drafting a great D we could always use another pass rusher so I'd love if Gains Adams or another top rusher fell to us............

[MDH]

9. Amobi Okoye, DT, Louisville (6-1½, 298) | previous: 13

A four-year veteran, and he is only 19 years old. Okoye is quick and explosive and goes all-out on every play. He is not only good at eating up space but also gets good penetration into the backfield.

Why on earth would we want to waste a pick on a guy like that?

 

He'll learn the ropes in his first 3 or so years and then become a monster in year 4-5 and which point the Bills wouldn't want to spend the money to re-sign him and he'd hit FA at the age of 24.

[AKC]

Once upon a time Erik Flowers was "definately the best lineman at the senior bowl on either team".

 

Sounds like revisionism to me. John Butler may have cited Flowers Senior Bowl week as one reason he drafted Flowers, but the pick was considered a wild stretch by every single reputable scouting source in the country. Okoye is a consensus first rounder by all the same folks.

 

 

11 picks before us so if he is considered as good as Warren Sapp (or very close) coming out of college and has better character, why would he last until #12.

 

The majority of NFL teams are looking for a 320 pound guy with Okoye's feet and legs, not a 287 pounder. It's not unlikely that only Tampa in front of us will really look hard at making him their first pick.

[ganesh]

The majority of NFL teams are looking for a 320 pound guy with Okoye's feet and legs, not a 287 pounder. It's not unlikely that only Tampa in front of us will really look hard at making him their first pick.

 

Unless someone trades up ahead of us to get him. There will be more teams running the cover2 considering the success that scheme has had this year with two teams running the cover2 making the superbowl.

[2003Contenders]

A few years ago the Jags picked DTs in the first round in two straight drafts. Marcus Stroud and John Henderson have done a fine job solidifying the interior of that line for years to come. Without knowing about what is going to happen between now and draft day (i.e. free agent gains and losses), I see no reason to pass on Okoye if he is there.

[AKC]

Unless someone trades up ahead of us to get him. There will be more teams running the cover2 considering the success that scheme has had this year with two teams running the cover2 making the superbowl.

 

You can follow the coaches to predict this- what coach from the Tampa 2/Cover 2 family has been signed at a new destination this off-season with a team having serious enough defensive issues to overhaul their D completely?