LevysEraII Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 Everyone knows that the DT doesn't demand an astronomical amount of money in free agency. A guy like Pat Williams only costs about $16 mill over a 4 year period. The 12th overall pick will probably cost the same amount, if not more. When you consider that player is an unproven rookie and the Bills were amongst the bottom of the league at stopping the run it makes sense to draft a player at another position and acquire the best available DT through free agency. We already know that Buffalo's weakest leak on the whole team is DT and subsequently run-defense. We can't afford to make a mistake on a potentially "hit or miss" type aquisition such as a rookie DT would be. Not to pick on Okoye, but he would be the worst guy the Bills could use their 1st round pick on. He's only 19 years old. No way does he step right in and becomes the answer to our "Run D" woes. Besides, don't we already have one of those guys on our roster in Big John McCargo? Our run defense needs to be shored-up with a can't miss, bonafide gangster at DT. With our 1st round pick the Bills should bring in the best available WR, MLB, CB or even TE. Those positions are in need of an upgrade but even if the Bills field the same group of guys that manned those positions in '06 it wouldn't disastrous. Notice that I didn't list a offensive lineman as a possible 1st round pick. Although I wouldn't be totally against it, I feel the same way about the offensive line as I do the defensive line. Those spots are in need of an immediate upgrade. Memo to ol' Ralphie Boy. If you truly want to make the playoffs. DON'T BE FRUGAL ON OFFENSIVE AND DEFENSIVE LINEMAN!!!!!!!
tennesseeboy Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 9. Amobi Okoye, DT, Louisville (6-1½, 298) | previous: 13 A four-year veteran, and he is only 19 years old. Okoye is quick and explosive and goes all-out on every play. He is not only good at eating up space but also gets good penetration into the backfield. Why on earth would we want to waste a pick on a guy like that?
Beerball Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 9. Amobi Okoye, DT, Louisville (6-1½, 298) | previous: 13 A four-year veteran, and he is only 19 years old. Okoye is quick and explosive and goes all-out on every play. He is not only good at eating up space but also gets good penetration into the backfield. Why on earth would we want to waste a pick on a guy like that? Already have $7 million invested in the position for next year? I'm just askin (i am on the record saying that he would be a terrific pick for the Bills, i just don't see it happening...but hope i'm wrong).
LevysEraII Posted February 1, 2007 Author Posted February 1, 2007 9. Amobi Okoye, DT, Louisville (6-1½, 298) | previous: 13 A four-year veteran, and he is only 19 years old. Okoye is quick and explosive and goes all-out on every play. He is not only good at eating up space but also gets good penetration into the backfield. Why on earth would we want to waste a pick on a guy like that? Those scouting reports, for the most part, are inaccurate. They make everyone sound good. How many times have you heard, "this is the next Brett Favre" or "this guy is the next Bruce Smith". How often are they right? The truth is this kid (Okoye), is just that. A kid. He hasn't fully developed yet. He could be something special down the line, but I think the Bills are close to playoff caliber NOW.
tennesseeboy Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 He was definitely the best lineman at the senior bowl on either team (at 19 and at 287) He was probably the best defensive tackle in the country (at 18 and 19 and at 315). He was the sparkplug for the defense in the Senior Bowl by most accounts. He is graduating from college before training camp (unlike what percentage of "mature" 22 year olds we draft?)...I'd go by the way he plays football, not by the date on his birth certificate.
Pyrite Gal Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 He is actually up in the top 10 now in Kipers ratings so he well may not even be around at #12 (Kiper is not a drop dead certain rating of player skills, but if anyone with a higher pick thinks like he does he may be gone). He apparently really impressed folks at the Senior Bowl. On the other hand, Willis who is a favorite of many on TSW is not even mentioned in Kipers top 25 or getting a high ranking in some other pundit boards. To my mind that actually makes it more possible (though he likely still is a poor fit for our scheme as this rookie likely will command a start at MLB if we get him with any first day choice) that Willis might be a good choice for the Bills if we do not have to devote a 1st to get him. I'd love to have him as a player but not as an MLB starter as it will simply be painful as he goes through the learning curve necessary for him. In fact if Fletcher were to resign picking him makes a lot more sense to me football wise, though likely we could someone else who can start immediately with an early second round pick.
LevysEraII Posted February 1, 2007 Author Posted February 1, 2007 He was definitely the best lineman at the senior bowl on either team (at 19 and at 287) He was probably the best defensive tackle in the country (at 18 and 19 and at 315). He was the sparkplug for the defense in the Senior Bowl by most accounts. He is graduating from college before training camp (unlike what percentage of "mature" 22 year olds we draft?)...I'd go by the way he plays football, not by the date on his birth certificate. Once upon a time Erik Flowers was "definately the best lineman at the senior bowl on either team". We all know how that story turned out. I just prefer that the Bills sign a lineman via free agency. DT's, in particular, don't normally turn out to be busts as free agents. Ted Washington and Sam Adams for Buffalo, Pat Williams for Minnesota and Keith Traylor come to mind as a few examples of DT's that came in and improved the run defense of those teams. When I think of the draft, names like Justin Bannan, Tim Anderson and Leif Larsen come to mind as busts that Buffalo brought in. BTW, have the Bills picked a DT in the draft that was worth a damn in the last 15 years?
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 Once upon a time Erik Flowers was "definately the best lineman at the senior bowl on either team". We all know how that story turned out. I just prefer that the Bills sign a lineman via free agency. DT's, in particular, don't normally turn out to be busts as free agents. Ted Washington and Sam Adams for Buffalo, Pat Williams for Minnesota and Keith Traylor come to mind as a few examples of DT's that came in and improved the run defense of those teams. When I think of the draft, names like Justin Bannan, Tim Anderson and Leif Larsen come to mind as busts that Buffalo brought in. BTW, have the Bills picked a DT in the draft that was worth a damn in the last 15 years? We signed Pat Williams as a UDFA.
tennesseeboy Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 Once upon a time Erik Flowers was "definately the best lineman at the senior bowl on either team". We all know how that story turned out. I just prefer that the Bills sign a lineman via free agency. DT's, in particular, don't normally turn out to be busts as free agents. Ted Washington and Sam Adams for Buffalo, Pat Williams for Minnesota and Keith Traylor come to mind as a few examples of DT's that came in and improved the run defense of those teams. When I think of the draft, names like Justin Bannan, Tim Anderson and Leif Larsen come to mind as busts that Buffalo brought in. BTW, have the Bills picked a DT in the draft that was worth a damn in the last 15 years? Says more about the Bills than about drafting defensive tackles...just ask Warren Sapp! I'm not saying draft Okoye ONLY because he was so good in the senior bowl. Let me repeat...LOOK AT HOW HE HAS PLAYED FOOTBALL THE LAST TWO YEARS. should we have passed on drafting Bruce Smith because we made a bad decision with Walt Patulski? Pass on Shane Conlan because we made a bad with Tom Cousineau? I think you have to take the player on his own merits...and this one is a top ten (maybe top five pick) In the less and less likely situation that he falls to us...I say take him.
LevysEraII Posted February 1, 2007 Author Posted February 1, 2007 We signed Pat Williams as a UDFA. That's why I said, "Pat Williams FOR MINNESOTA". He was a veteran free agent pick-up for the Vikings, not the Bills.
BuffaloRebound Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 Whether it is through the draft or free agency, this team needs to get bigger up the middle (MLB and DT's). The only guy who seems to fit that mold and would be worthy of a #12 pick is Branch, but he looks to be gone by then.
Nanker Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 Who need DTs when you can feature a 1-3-7 defense? Seven Defensive Backs is where it's at baby.
LevysEraII Posted February 1, 2007 Author Posted February 1, 2007 Says more about the Bills than about drafting defensive tackles...just ask Warren Sapp! I'm not saying draft Okoye ONLY because he was so good in the senior bowl. Let me repeat...LOOK AT HOW HE HAS PLAYED FOOTBALL THE LAST TWO YEARS. should we have passed on drafting Bruce Smith because we made a bad decision with Walt Patulski? Pass on Shane Conlan because we made a bad with Tom Cousineau? I think you have to take the player on his own merits...and this one is a top ten (maybe top five pick) In the less and less likely situation that he falls to us...I say take him. You make some good points, but how many of those guys are 19 years old? Even in the NBA, it's rare that a 19 year old makes an immediate impact and that's a sport that brings in 18 and 19 year olds regularly, or at least they used to before the new rule that bans 18 year old from playing in the NBA. We have nobody to compare Okoye with. It's unchartered territory and I don't think our defense can afford to not get the D-Line right, ASAP.
Phlegm Alley Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 He was definitely the best lineman at the senior bowl on either team (at 19 and at 287) He was probably the best defensive tackle in the country (at 18 and 19 and at 315). He was the sparkplug for the defense in the Senior Bowl by most accounts. He is graduating from college before training camp (unlike what percentage of "mature" 22 year olds we draft?)...I'd go by the way he plays football, not by the date on his birth certificate. Don;t get me wrong, the Bills largest deficiency last year was their inability to stop the run and this offseason's acquisitions should be to repair that deficiency. Okoye seems like a Tommie Harris, who was intrical to the success of the Bears defense until he went down with an injury. However, last year when we traded up to take McCargo, our scouts, who prognasticate not only that years list of free agents and potential draft picks, but also the following years as well, must have seen something that they liked better in selecting McCargo last year as opposed to selecting a DT in the 1st round of this years draft. What I am saying is, they either saw more upside in selecting McCargo last year, as opposed to selecting an 19 yo DT who would have been elegible for the '07 draft.
tennesseeboy Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 I understand your point. Many of these 18 year old high school players are spoiled and just out of high school. This guy has played lots of football with older players, is a college graduate (showing more maturity than a LOT of players we draft) and handles himself very well on and off the field. He may or may not be the "right size" for what we need (I understand the inclination to go with Branch, and if I didn't think Okoye was such a find, I'd be right along with him as a choice ...and I'd be okay if we did end up choosing him or even Blaylock.) I just think Okoye has the talent and drive to be a huge factor on the defensive line...at 20 years old or however old he will be when he shows up in camp.
obie_wan Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 He is actually up in the top 10 now in Kipers ratings so he well may not even be around at #12 (Kiper is not a drop dead certain rating of player skills, but if anyone with a higher pick thinks like he does he may be gone). He apparently really impressed folks at the Senior Bowl. On the other hand, Willis who is a favorite of many on TSW is not even mentioned in Kipers top 25 or getting a high ranking in some other pundit boards. To my mind that actually makes it more possible (though he likely still is a poor fit for our scheme as this rookie likely will command a start at MLB if we get him with any first day choice) that Willis might be a good choice for the Bills if we do not have to devote a 1st to get him. I'd love to have him as a player but not as an MLB starter as it will simply be painful as he goes through the learning curve necessary for him. In fact if Fletcher were to resign picking him makes a lot more sense to me football wise, though likely we could someone else who can start immediately with an early second round pick. 1. Even though Okoye may in Kiper's top 10, he is not the prototypical oversized DT and may not fit most standard 4-3 defenses who rely on big DTs. Thus- there is a good chance he will be available to the Bills at #12. 2. Your last sentence is your best response yet to drafting Willis at MLB. you don't want him in the 1st round because he's too raw even though he has the skills you need. Yet - you expect to draft someone in the 2nd round with less talent to be a starter. OK - I see clearly now
Nanker Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 You make some good points, but how many of those guys are 19 years old? Even in the NBA, it's rare that a 19 year old makes an immediate impact and that's a sport that brings in 18 and 19 year olds regularly, or at least they used to before the new rule that bans 18 year old from playing in the NBA. We have nobody to compare Okoye with. It's unchartered territory and I don't think our defense can afford to not get the D-Line right, ASAP. Right. And we certainly can't count on McCargo to have a better year, so it just wouldn't be fair to make the rookie step in and take half the snaps during the year. He's guaranteed to be a flop. I see your point. We'll never get better until we're already better and then we'll be all better and there'll be no need to get any better. Maybe we could just skip the draft this year entirely. I just don't see how it can turn our positive for us. We certainly don't need depth at any position - except CB. You well remember Marv has a penchant for CBs.
LevysEraII Posted February 1, 2007 Author Posted February 1, 2007 Right. And we certainly can't count on McCargo to have a better year, so it just wouldn't be fair to make the rookie step in and take half the snaps during the year. He's guaranteed to be a flop. I see your point. We'll never get better until we're already better and then we'll be all better and there'll be no need to get any better. Maybe we could just skip the draft this year entirely. I just don't see how it can turn our positive for us. We certainly don't need depth at any position - except CB. You well remember Marv has a penchant for CBs. Laying the sarcasm pretty thick, are we? I never said anybody is guaranteed to be a flop. I just want a sure thing to man the defensive tackle position. I've had enough of the Andersons, Larsens and Bannans of the world.
tennesseeboy Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 Okoye is going to be great. Trust me, I'm a lawyer!
Nanker Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 1. Even though Okoye may in Kiper's top 10, he is not the prototypical oversized DT and may not fit most standard 4-3 defenses who rely on big DTs. Thus- there is a good chance he will be available to the Bills at #12. 2. Your last sentence is your best response yet to drafting Willis at MLB. you don't want him in the 1st round because he's too raw even though he has the skills you need. Yet - you expect to draft someone in the 2nd round with less talent to be a starter. OK - I see clearly now 1st and 5 from the 45 at the Senior Bowl. North's got the ball and Willis is in there defending. 28 seconds into this film clip and 46 yards down the field Willis is the guy who finally makes the tackle on a bee-oo-tee-ful reverse. Then on Tony Hunt's first TD Willis gets pancaked onto his ass by Josh Beekman at 1:30 into the tape. Okoye on the other hand got a nice sack at 1:40 of the same clip, but we can't use him at MLB or more importantly at CB. I can't see why anyone would want him on The Bills when we have such a glaring need at CB and TE.
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