Beerball Posted January 31, 2007 Posted January 31, 2007 Beerball = ieatcrayonz????? at this time it is only a pipe dream
tennesseeboy Posted January 31, 2007 Posted January 31, 2007 Again I ask, does anyone have a link to anything from the Buffalo Bills organization that indicates that they will, after signing a free agent DT AND trading back into the first round of last year's draft to select a DT, use their top pick this year on another DT? Honestly. If that's the case, then Branch or Okoye wouldn't be bad choices @ all. It isn't like, "we tried to find a DT to improving our run defense twice and weren't successful, so the hell with it." It's more like "We still haven't defended the run, the best player available at DT in the draft at twelve will be a guy who can do it and make our line solid."
Kelly the Dog Posted January 31, 2007 Posted January 31, 2007 A lineman to help the interior line should be a high priority, but a first round pick on a guard? I'm not sure. Davin Joseph was a solid choice for Tampa, but hasn't set the world on fire. In the first round, I'd like to see the LB unit upgraded, if the lines aren't going to be addressed.Imagine that. Even though our guards stink, I am not completely sold on Pennington, who played fabulous relatively, and who played decent in reality. I certainly wouldn't mind drafting an OT and playing him at guard for a couple seasons (if, of course, this particular OT is capable of that). I haven't seen enough of Willis, personally, to consider him the stud at #12 but to me he was getting blocked all over the place in the Senior Bowl and getting Fletcheresque tackles and numbers well into the defensive backfield. I also wouldn't mind a trade down and an extra #2 but of course, we need a trade down partner and that ain't always easy, nor can it be counted on whatsoever going into draft day.
R. Rich Posted January 31, 2007 Posted January 31, 2007 It isn't like, "we tried to find a DT to improving our run defense twice and weren't successful, so the hell with it." It's more like "We still haven't defended the run, the best player available at DT in the draft at twelve will be a guy who can do it and make our line solid." That explains your rationale, which, BTW, I'm not totally against. My question is what makes anyone think that, given the transactions of last year, that the Bills will once again go for a DT w/ their first pick?
Ramius Posted January 31, 2007 Posted January 31, 2007 That explains your rationale, which, BTW, I'm not totally against. My question is what makes anyone think that, given the transactions of last year, that the Bills will once again go for a DT w/ their first pick? I dont think they will. Tripplett really stepped up his game later on in the season. McCargo is still an unknown, but you dont give up on a 1st round pick after 1 season. I think the learning curve at DT is too steep to have 3 second year players or younger manning the position. I think that levy and co. will grab a rotation DT in FA this offseason, and maybe one later on in the draft. As you RR, i dont oppose the pick of a DT at #12, but i dont see the Bills doing it.
tennesseeboy Posted January 31, 2007 Posted January 31, 2007 That explains your rationale, which, BTW, I'm not totally against. My question is what makes anyone think that, given the transactions of last year, that the Bills will once again go for a DT w/ their first pick? I honestly think that the Tampa 2 which we seem to be bent on using has its weakest spot in the middle of the defensive line. I think we are actually good enough except for that Achilles heel to go deep into the playoffs. Someone has to hold that defensive line together this coming season. I say that in part because I think the moment you can get to the playoffs, with free agency and parity the way it is...you have to move heaven and earth to win now. That means plugging that glaring hole (again not just a blaring hole for the Buffalo Bills, which it is, but also the glaring weakness of the Tampa 2) now. Some think that can be done with a MLB, but I don't think that will do. I'd rather keep Fletcher and fix the front four with a guy like Okoye. I'm not ready to give up on McCargo, and love Williams, but for my money I'll take my chances on having too many good DT's (having fresh horses on the D line is not a bad strategy over the course of the season anyway.)
nichebiche Posted January 31, 2007 Posted January 31, 2007 Again I ask, does anyone have a link to anything from the Buffalo Bills organization that indicates that they will, after signing a free agent DT AND trading back into the first round of last year's draft to select a DT, use their top pick this year on another DT? Honestly. If that's the case, then Branch or Okoye wouldn't be bad choices @ all. 1st post, so i'll try to make it a good one. they'll all go downhill from here.... here are two recent examples of teams taking DT in the 1st Round in consecutive drafts which seem to have worked pretty well for them. New England 2004 Vince Wilfork #21 overall 2003 Ty Warren #13 overall and for good measure 2001 Richard Seymour #6 overall Jacksonville 2002 John Henderson #9 overall 2001 Marcus Stroud #13 overall 2006 Team DEF Rankings Overall Jacksonville #2 New England #6 Against Run Jacksonville #4 New England #5 true, in the case of New England, Seymour and Warren are now DE's, but they were drafted as DT and converted later. seems like building the DL has worked pretty well for these two teams.
BuffaloBilliever Posted January 31, 2007 Posted January 31, 2007 I just don't believe any of these freakin' mock drafts. Name one last year that said "with the 8th overall pick, the Buffalo Bills select Donte Whitner of Ohio State University."
DrDawkinstein Posted January 31, 2007 Posted January 31, 2007 I just don't believe any of these freakin' mock drafts. Name one last year that said "with the 8th overall pick, the Buffalo Bills select Donte Whitner of Ohio State University." there are 2 of them linked in an old thread. the guy from PFW and someone else... Here is one. thanks to astrobot.
BuffaloBilliever Posted January 31, 2007 Posted January 31, 2007 there are 2 of them linked in an old thread. the guy from PFW and someone else... Here is one. thanks to astrobot. Damn, that dude was on crack with his picks, he was dead on.
obie_wan Posted January 31, 2007 Posted January 31, 2007 That explains your rationale, which, BTW, I'm not totally against. My question is what makes anyone think that, given the transactions of last year, that the Bills will once again go for a DT w/ their first pick? The Cover-2 requires that the front 4 be able to generate pressure on run and pass plays without blitzing from LBs and CBs. That is why they can go with lesser talent at CB. With Kelsay, the Bills are functional at DE. If he leaves, then a DE becomes more of a priority. They still need 4 players to rotate at DT in order to keep the pressure on. With McCargo, they only have 3 so there is an opening is a group that clearly couldn't control the run. Willis, though is a strong possibility, since MLB is critical to the cover-2. Unlikely they are able to land Briggs in FA, so the only way to get a stud is to draft one. They could take their chances in round 2 with a player like Brandon Siler- but they may deem the position to be as important as SS like was last year.
Beerball Posted January 31, 2007 Posted January 31, 2007 1st post, so i'll try to make it a good one. they'll all go downhill from here.... Who are you and where are you from?
Beerball Posted January 31, 2007 Posted January 31, 2007 I dont think they will. Tripplett really stepped up his game later on in the season. McCargo is still an unknown, but you dont give up on a 1st round pick after 1 season. I think the learning curve at DT is too steep to have 3 second year players or younger manning the position. I think that levy and co. will grab a rotation DT in FA this offseason, and maybe one later on in the draft. As you RR, i dont oppose the pick of a DT at #12, but i dont see the Bills doing it. How much is too much $$$? Do I think we need to improve the interior of the D-line? Hell yes. But, one of you capologists tell me if it makes business sense. If we drafted a DT at #12 we would have over $10,000,000/year (based on this year's salaries) invested in the position with everyone signed through the 2010 season (assume 2011 or 12 for this years pick). Question #1--can the team afford to have that kind of money tied up in one (OK 2) position? Remember, at least 1 of these guys would be a part timer. Question #2--if the answer to #1 is no--can the Bills afford to cut ties with one? Unless you can give an unconditional yes to one of those questions...think DB.
Bill from NYC Posted January 31, 2007 Posted January 31, 2007 Question #1--can the team afford to have that kind of money tied up in one (OK 2) position? Remember, at least 1 of these guys would be a part timer. Question #2--if the answer to #1 is no--can the Bills afford to cut ties with one? Unless you can give an unconditional yes to one of those questions...think DB. Why even the 2 questions? Think DB under any and all conditions.
Beerball Posted January 31, 2007 Posted January 31, 2007 Why even the 2 questions? Think DB under any and all conditions. I saw your pick of record. Nice to see you getting with the program. Me? I'm figuring on a WR.
Bill from NYC Posted January 31, 2007 Posted January 31, 2007 I saw your pick of record. Nice to see you getting with the program. Me? I'm figuring on a WR. Sadly, I'm quite serious. If you want to think long term, look for more DBs in 08 as well.
Pyrite Gal Posted January 31, 2007 Posted January 31, 2007 Willis, though is a strong possibility, since MLB is critical to the cover-2. Exactly in the assumption that MLB is critical in the Cover 2 which is why picking a rookie to man this spot as a starter likely condemns us to a painful first year. I am not saying that one should not pick a talented rookie as this is how gets and develops players who can man a spot for years. What I am saying is that folks should be prepared for and acknowledge the likely painful process which would occur if we depended upon even a very talented rookie to be the starter in this critical role. F-B used his near decade of experience as the MLB in the cover two to read plays and make the diverse decisions called for which make this position critical as the MLB must decide whether this down and distance and the O lineup requires that he play like a run stuffing DT or play like a deep cover safety on a particular play. I simply do not see why folks would have any expectation that a rookie is going to be able to read NFL plays like a 10 year vet because even if Willis is a better tackler (which he seems to be right now) than Fletch and a better pass coverage guy (it would not surprise me if he is one on one but no one has presented any objective facts that he is with zone coverage even if he correctly reads it being a pass play) there still is likely to be a painful learning curve for even a talented rookie to become a vet. If I am Tom Brady or even a marginally competemt NFL QB and OCs I am downright salivating at the chance to face a rookie MLB (even a talented one as Willis appears to be) because I am certain that I an adequate pro team is going to be able to show a rookie things he has not seen before on the field and a combination of speed and athleticism he has not ever faced before so that if I can even get him to lean in a little bit or take one wrong step in, I am going to send a speedy WR om a post pattern up the middle and take advantage of any rookie mistakes the MLB has for deep zone responsibility up the middle. There almost certainly will be some very bad times as this talented rookie learns how to become a vet and lmy sense is that I doubt we commit to having a physically talented athlete on D play the same critical role JP did on O and essentially turn 2007 into yet another development season.
obie_wan Posted January 31, 2007 Posted January 31, 2007 Exactly in the assumption that MLB is critical in the Cover 2 which is why picking a rookie to man this spot as a starter likely condemns us to a painful first year. I am not saying that one should not pick a talented rookie as this is how gets and develops players who can man a spot for years. not to nitpick- But you have been saying in those long drawn out posts that the Bills will not draft Willis because he couldn't possibly produce at a Fletcher level immediately.
DrDawkinstein Posted January 31, 2007 Posted January 31, 2007 i think its safe to say that anyone picked in the front half of the draft(maybe even the entire first round) should be expected to step in and start. Who expected Whitner to step in and start 16 games? much less Simpson in the 3rd become a full-timer. Willis has his own set of pro's over F-B. I would bet that he could come in and start and we wouldnt see that much drop-off. especially if our DLine plays better in front of him, and we keep Nate and hold on to a Top 10 pass D. some stumbling will be there, he might even be a bust, thats the chance in every pick though. right now the kid is on a roll. i say draft him and start him. (or okoye)
bills_fan Posted January 31, 2007 Posted January 31, 2007 I honestly think that the Tampa 2 which we seem to be bent on using has its weakest spot in the middle of the defensive line. I think we are actually good enough except for that Achilles heel to go deep into the playoffs. Someone has to hold that defensive line together this coming season. I say that in part because I think the moment you can get to the playoffs, with free agency and parity the way it is...you have to move heaven and earth to win now. That means plugging that glaring hole (again not just a blaring hole for the Buffalo Bills, which it is, but also the glaring weakness of the Tampa 2) now. Some think that can be done with a MLB, but I don't think that will do. I'd rather keep Fletcher and fix the front four with a guy like Okoye. I'm not ready to give up on McCargo, and love Williams, but for my money I'll take my chances on having too many good DT's (having fresh horses on the D line is not a bad strategy over the course of the season anyway.) Hence the reason I am advocating an all out push to sign FA DT Terdell Sands. He's a massive, space eating, lane clogging DT who's young and who could help our run D immediately.
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