ATBNG Posted February 4, 2007 Posted February 4, 2007 Keep on fantasizing that things will remain as they are, Prognastic. We've heard it a million times. Hell, we were guilty of it in the early-mid 90's. "All is well!" You've been fantasizing about their decline for at least half the six year run. There are, of course, never any substantive reasons given by you when it comes to your (mis)analyzing the Pats. All is well in Patriot land besides the bitter fact that they're not playing today. They're 30 million under the cap. They probably have the most talented defensive line in the league and they're all under 30. They have a young but effective offensive line that they're not spending umpteen dollars on. They have two first round picks next year. Their best two players are under contract through the rest of the decade. You just throw out stuff like "it's all got to end sometime." It really doesn't. If you manage your finances well, draft and acquire good players for your system and coach and game plan effectively, you can be competitive every year. It isn't random like a roulette wheel. The Dallas comparison is not very good either. The architect of Dallas's rise (Johnson) left the team; Belichick is still in place. They also implemented the salary cap during Dallas's run, which prevented them from keeping a lot of their players. The Patriots (Belichick) have shown that they understand how to manage a budget in the salary cap era as well as any team, and the rules aren't changing anytime soon.
ATBNG Posted February 4, 2007 Posted February 4, 2007 And as it's looking, Belichick leaving after the 2007 season is a very distinct possibility. The Giants kept Coughlin, against the desires of their players and fans, for the upcoming season. Belichick can void the final year of his Pats contract (2008). Hmmmmm. You just posted the news item which said that Belichick currently has a contract with a team option for 2008. Belichick can't void his contract in 2008 if that is an accurate report; the team can. Here's Belichick's own words, when asked about how he felt about the organization last week after the Indy loss. "I like the people I'm working with, I like the situation I'm in," Belichick said. "First of all, it starts at the top. Mr. Kraft and his family have been tremendously supportive, giving us great support and facilities and everything that they can give to make a team competitive. I don't sit here and say, 'If we had this or had that, it would make a difference.' We pretty much have everything we need, the ability to use resources. That's No. 1 right there. When you have those things, it's hard not to feel good about what you're doing, and it's not hard to keep doing it. I love football and I love the area. The players, the organization, the support we get. I have a great relationship with the two [people]most important to me, Mr. Kraft and [vice president of player personnel] Scott Pioli. I think all the way around, all three of us have a good relationship with each other, very workable, respectfully and complementary. It starts there."
Hollywood Donahoe Posted February 4, 2007 Posted February 4, 2007 HD: My "predictions of doom" were regarding their chances of winning the SB again...admittedly it WAS close this year... That's the point. The Patriots were clearly a Super Bowl-caliber team this year, even though they fell just short. Anybody can pick a single team and say that they won't win the Super Bowl any time soon - and they'll likely be right. Your doom-and-gloom indicated that the Pats wouldn't even contend for titles anymore, and you were wrong. As I said, this off-season will tell a lot about the Pats. Will they open the checkbooks? Because if they don't, sure they might win the division again next year, but they won't win the SB. Ah yes, the Patriots have always been reliant on big spending in the FA market to win Super Bowls. Where do you come up with this crap? And as it's looking, Belichick leaving after the 2007 season is a very distinct possibility. The Giants kept Coughlin, against the desires of their players and fans, for the upcoming season. Belichick can void the final year of his Pats contract (2008). It should be interesting to see what happens. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed that Belichick realizes how good a thing he's got going in Foxboro.
MadBuffaloDisease Posted February 4, 2007 Posted February 4, 2007 Ooops, missed the "team option" part, which makes no sense. Why would Belichick allow for a team option and not a personal one? It's not like he couldn't find work elsewhere. And yes HD, the Pats won SB's without expensive players in the past. So you're expecting them to win one next year without signing anyone of importance? I mean, it's not like the guys they DID sign helped them win SB's the past 2 years. Say they lost Samuel and Graham, cut Dillon, Troy Brown retires, all of which are very real possibilities, without replacing them with players at least as good. You still as confident that they're a SB team? Wait, what am I saying!
Hollywood Donahoe Posted February 4, 2007 Posted February 4, 2007 And yes HD, the Pats won SB's without expensive players in the past. Quite right. Indeed, it has been their modus operandi during the Belichick era. For six years, they have drafted well, signed smart, inexpensive players who fit their system, and let other teams kill their caps in the high-priced FA market. They've been the best team in the NFL during that span. So you're expecting them to win one next year without signing anyone of importance? I never expect the Patriots to win the Super Bowl. Mathematically, there's always a far better chance that one of the other 31 teams will win it. That said, I do expect them to contend for a Super Bowl next year, and every year until they begin to feel the effects of Brady, Belichick, or Pioli leaving, should one of them eventually seek new employment. I mean, it's not like the guys they DID sign helped them win SB's the past 2 years. The guys they signed helped them contend for Super Bowls the past two years. Say they lost Samuel and Graham, cut Dillon, Troy Brown retires, all of which are very real possibilities, without replacing them with players at least as good. You still as confident that they're a SB team? First, the Pats are too smart to not franchise Samuel, meaning he stays or the Pats get a day one pick back for him. Graham could go, and his loss would hurt, but the Pats aren't exactly thin at TE. Dillon costs more to cut than he does to keep. No chance of him going anywhere. Brown's versatility and leadership will be missed whenever he moves on, but his production at WR is easily replaceable. Anyway, to get to the point, you're assuming that the only way to replace these guys, should they leave, is to dip into the high-priced FA market. This type of assumption is always foolish, but is even more so in the case of the Patriots. We're talking about a team that lost Deion Branch and David Givens, replaced them with Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney, and improved significantly. The Patriots have one of the smartest FOs in the league, and because of that, every player is replaceable (excluding, in all probability, Brady), and not necessarily with a marquee name.
MadBuffaloDisease Posted February 4, 2007 Posted February 4, 2007 I'm not saying "high-priced" FA market, I'm saying more than just a street FA. And I'm skeptical of the Pats franchising Samuel, much less trading him for a pick given the average salary (and this starting point) for a franchised CB is around $8M (a year), and then you add a high draft pick on top of that. Whereas a guy like Clements is an UFA. But like I said, this off-season will reveal a lot.
Hollywood Donahoe Posted February 4, 2007 Posted February 4, 2007 I'm not saying "high-priced" FA market, I'm saying more than just a street FA. Well, the Patriots have historically been quite active in free agency, but have avoided players whose salary will outweigh their value. And I'm skeptical of the Pats franchising Samuel, much less trading him for a pick given the average salary (and this starting point) for a franchised CB is around $8M (a year), and then you add a high draft pick on top of that. Whereas a guy like Clements is an UFA. I'll consider him franchised and traded, then. But like I said, this off-season will reveal a lot. I just got déjà vu.
MadBuffaloDisease Posted February 4, 2007 Posted February 4, 2007 Same here. Again HD, I never predicted the Pats would fall into oblivion, just that their days of winning SB's are over. Let me know when that changes.
Hollywood Donahoe Posted February 4, 2007 Posted February 4, 2007 Again HD, I never predicted the Pats would fall into oblivion, just that their days of winning SB's are over. Way to go out on a limb. All hail the mighty limb walker!
MadBuffaloDisease Posted February 4, 2007 Posted February 4, 2007 Well then HD, I guess we've been in violent agreement all these years.
Orton's Arm Posted February 4, 2007 Posted February 4, 2007 If you're solid at QB, OL, and DL, you have the chance to win every week. The Patriots are very strong and relatively young in all three areas. With their cap room and their reputation for winning, they are an attractive destination for free agents. Add to that their high quality of coaching and all those draft picks, and the Patriots have as good a chance as anyone of winning next year's Super Bowl. We don't have to like it. But we can't blind ourselves to reality either. The fact of the matter is, there's an 800 pound gorilla living next door to the Bills. I hear people talk about how the gorilla may stop exercising well, or eating well, or whatever. But it's still an 800 pound gorilla.
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