NFLNetwork's SBXXV replay confirms Reed no HOFer

[Pyrite Gal]

Hey sorry:

Anyone who saw Lynn Swann play knows that he was a better receiver than Reed. According to you Emmit Smith and Franco are better RBs than OJ was.

 

 

Actually I agree with you that Swann was a better receiver than Reed (like HOF voting its a lot more than the simple stats, but I also thinl that Emitt Smith was a lot better than OJ and this is even more than my personal distaste for someone who butchers his wife and a stranger speaking.

 

OJ was an amazing rusher and one of the best there ever was, but being an RN and ultimately a football player is about a lot more than the mere yardage put down lugging the rock.

 

In many ways I look at this question from the standpoint of if I was a DC who do I hate to and even fear facing and I would be much happier to face OJ rather thab E. Smith and easily choseEmmit and his teammates rather than Juice and his Electric Vo, teammates everyday and twice on Sundays.

 

I think Emmit was a better RB than OJ and a better dancer as well.

[Adam]

Furthermore, I looked at Reed's stats from that SBXXV year and he wasn't even a 1,000 yard receiver (look it up). I'm a Bills fan but after watching that replay televised last night - I have to say he does NOT get my benefit of the doubt if I'm a writer watching that game. Sorry, he just doesn't.

SO what you're saying is that Reed had a better chance if we didn't go to the Superbowl

[34-78-83]

Hey sorry:

Anyone who saw Lynn Swann play knows that he was a better receiver than Reed.

 

Please elaborate on this (Yes I saw them both)...

 

Was he faster than Reed? Yes

Was he more acrobatic than Reed? Yes

Did he run better routes? No

Did he have better hands? No

Was he tougher? No

Did he block better? God No

 

Seems to me it's really not close.

[Lori]

Hey sorry:

Anyone who saw Lynn Swann play knows that he was a better receiver than Reed. According to you Emmit Smith and Franco are better RBs than OJ was.

I saw Lynn Swann play. (I live in PA, remember?) He was certainly more graceful; he made some stupendous catches. If he'd played in this era, he'd be a frequent flyer on Sportscenter's "Plays of the Week" every Sunday.

 

But if Bradshaw needed 10 yards on a 3rd-and-9, he looked for Stallworth, because Stallworth was a better bet to get the tough yards. Just like Reed was in Buffalo. So who's "better"?

 

As for RBs: neither Emmitt nor Franco comes anywhere near matching O.J.'s 4.7 yards per carry, the main stat I use to judge my HOF backs. (In fact, of the top 25 rushing-yardage leaders, only Barry Sanders and Jim Brown top Simpson's average. That sounds about right.)

[Pyrite Gal]

I saw Lynn Swann play. (I live in PA, remember?) He was certainly more graceful; he made some stupendous catches. If he'd played in this era, he'd be a frequent flyer on Sportscenter's "Plays of the Week" every Sunday.

 

But if Bradshaw needed 10 yards on a 3rd-and-9, he looked for Stallworth, because Stallworth was a better bet to get the tough yards. Just like Reed was in Buffalo. So who's "better"?

 

As for RBs: neither Emmitt nor Franco comes anywhere near matching O.J.'s 4.7 yards per carry, the main stat I use to judge my HOF backs. (In fact, of the top 25 rushing-yardage leaders, only Barry Sanders and Jim Brown top Simpson's average. That sounds about right.)

 

Facts smhacts. We are talking about the Hall of FAME here. So lets compare their entire careers so we really need to compare Emmit's record with the AZ Cardinals versus Juice's output with the 49ers to get a true picture. I know you look at their career ypc, but whenever I argue a point on TSW I look for a particular episode in their careers and if that helps my case I claim it reflects the entire issue.

[Nanker]

Had Swann played on those Bills teams with OJ he'd now be in the Hall of Janitors and Used Car Salesmen.

 

Had Emitt begun his 14 year career with Arizona instead of at Dullas he would have taken his entire 15 years to run for what OJ did in 11.

 

Better? Better than who? I'm better than you, that's who.

What a subjective bunch of garbage. Reading some of this crap is like having a date with one of the Rrhea sisters.

 

This thread needs a full dose of Kaopectate.

[Pete]

I saw Lynn Swann play. (I live in PA, remember?) He was certainly more graceful; he made some stupendous catches. If he'd played in this era, he'd be a frequent flyer on Sportscenter's "Plays of the Week" every Sunday.

 

But if Bradshaw needed 10 yards on a 3rd-and-9, he looked for Stallworth, because Stallworth was a better bet to get the tough yards. Just like Reed was in Buffalo. So who's "better"?

 

As for RBs: neither Emmitt nor Franco comes anywhere near matching O.J.'s 4.7 yards per carry, the main stat I use to judge my HOF backs. (In fact, of the top 25 rushing-yardage leaders, only Barry Sanders and Jim Brown top Simpson's average. That sounds about right.)

Bo Jackson averaging 5.4 yards in his NFL career is amazing!

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/JackBo00.htm

 

one of the more astounding stats I have ever heard. Another hard to beleive rushing stat that I have heard but am not sure if its true(I figure who better to ask then Lori)- I have heard that Jim Brown was never tackled for a loss in his career. Can you confirm or refute that please?

 

Two of the more amazing stats I have ever heard!

[KD in CA]

Jim Kelly and Thurman Thomas did more to kill the Bills in their Super Bowl runs than Andre Reed did with those drops.

 

 

I disagree. The Bills were actually a better team than the Giants and that was the game they should have won. The Redskins and Cowboys were just better teams than Buffalo. Reed let himself be intimidated by the Giants and did enormous damage in that game. Oh yeah, and his stupid PF penalty the next year made sure there'd be no comeback against the Skins.

[Pete]

I disagree. The Bills were actually a better team than the Giants and that was the game they should have won. The Redskins and Cowboys were just better teams than Buffalo. Reed let himself be intimidated by the Giants and did enormous damage in that game. Oh yeah, and his stupid PF penalty the next year made sure there'd be no comeback against the Skins.

Thurman got 10 yards everytime he touched the ball. We got the ball back with 2:16 left and had timeouts. It was the worst clock management I have ever seen. Jim Kelly blew it. Watch that drive again, its painful. So much time was wasted. How is it with 2:16 left, multiple timeouts and getting 10 yards a pop- that the best you can do is a 47 yard FG attempt? That loss is on Jim Kelly and his horrible clock management and egotistical playcalling!

[Dan]

Thurman got 10 yards everytime he touched the ball. We got the ball back with 2:16 left and had timeouts. It was the worst clock management I have ever seen. Jim Kelly blew it. Watch that drive again, its painful. So much time was wasted. How is it with 2:16 left, multiple timeouts and getting 10 yards a pop- that the best you can do is a 47 yard FG attempt? That loss is on Jim Kelly and his horrible clock management and egotistical playcalling!

I saw the replay the other night and I agree, it was some pretty average clock management - at best. However, we should keep in mind that we had only 1 time out , plus the 2 minute warning. We got the ball on the 10 yard line; so we had a long way to go to get that field goal try. Finally, no one got out of bounds! They kept staying in bounds to get more yards, rather than run out of bounds and stop the clock.

[Buftex]

Hey sorry:

Anyone who saw Lynn Swann play knows that he was a better receiver than Reed.

 

 

Really? I disagree. And I saw both of them play. I may have, admittedly a Bills bias, but I will go back to my Reed/Beebe comparison...if I was to have access to game film from Reed & Beebe's careers, and was asked to come up with two minutes worth of highlights for both, I bet I could convince someone that Beebe was a better receiver....even though I know it wasn't true.

 

I remember Swann dropping plenty of passes in his career. Admittedly, it was a different game then, there wasn't as much passing, which made Swanns' drops all the more costly.

 

I am not one of those who thinks Swann getting in was a mistake (it is a hall of "fame") after all, but it seems that Bills fans who find the need to deconstruct the "myth" of the greatness of the Bills Super Bowl era teams, go out of their way to champion guys like Swann and Monk, because their cause got more media attention.

 

Is it possible that Reed belongs in the HOF, as does Swann, as does Monk, as does Michael Irvin?

[Shamrock]

2...even though the 3 wins in 4 years by the Pats is arguably a more noterworthy achievement, I doubt 4 straight even as a loser will be repeated.

 

Damn them Cowboys as well: '92, '93 and '95.

Maybe this 3 wins in 4 years is achievable (damn $#%& Cowboys)

[Lori]

Bo Jackson averaging 5.4 yards in his NFL career is amazing!

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/JackBo00.htm

 

one of the more astounding stats I have ever heard. Another hard to beleive rushing stat that I have heard but am not sure if its true(I figure who better to ask then Lori)- I have heard that Jim Brown was never tackled for a loss in his career. Can you confirm or refute that please?

 

Two of the more amazing stats I have ever heard!

I've heard that about Brown as well. It's not mentioned in any of the bios I've read, but as impossible as that stat sounds, Brown is the one guy I could see doing it...

[Pete]

I've heard that about Brown as well. It's not mentioned in any of the bios I've read, but as impossible as that stat sounds, Brown is the one guy I could see doing it...

I have heard that many times. Once I heard it on Mike and the Maddog show on WFAN. If true that is probably the most amazing football stat I have ever heard

[Sen. John Blutarsky]

Jim Kelly and Thurman Thomas did more to kill the Bills in their Super Bowl runs than Andre Reed did with those drops.

Reed's helmet throwing hissy fit in SB 26 didn't help either so I'm not sure where you are coming from. Reed had a good game in SB 27 but we were down big for most of that game and were throwing alot.

 

Kelly was good in 25, got hammered into the ground repeatedly in 26, was awful and then hurt in 27 and medicore in 28. Thomas was good in 25 and then totally invisible for the rest of them.

 

All three of them contributed to at least one of the SB losses in a pretty significant way but I think that 25 is the only one you can point to and say these 2 or 3 plays killed us and Reed made (or didn't make) those plays. Maybe 28 but even that is debateable because the whole team folded up in the second half.

[BuffOrange]

Reed's helmet throwing hissy fit in SB 26 didn't help either so I'm not sure where you are coming from. Reed had a good game in SB 27 but we were down big for most of that game and were throwing alot.

 

Kelly was good in 25, got hammered into the ground repeatedly in 26, was awful and then hurt in 27 and medicore in 28. Thomas was good in 25 and then totally invisible for the rest of them.

 

All three of them contributed to at least one of the SB losses in a pretty significant way but I think that 25 is the only one you can point to and say these 2 or 3 plays killed us and Reed made (or didn't make) those plays. Maybe 28 but even that is debateable because the whole team folded up in the second half.

 

I give Reed a break for the "hissy fit" in 26 given the terrible "officiating"; but overall that's a pretty good summary.

[Taro T]

Reed's helmet throwing hissy fit in SB 26 didn't help either so I'm not sure where you are coming from. Reed had a good game in SB 27 but we were down big for most of that game and were throwing alot.

 

Kelly was good in 25, got hammered into the ground repeatedly in 26, was awful and then hurt in 27 and medicore in 28. Thomas was good in 25 and then totally invisible for the rest of them.

 

All three of them contributed to at least one of the SB losses in a pretty significant way but I think that 25 is the only one you can point to and say these 2 or 3 plays killed us and Reed made (or didn't make) those plays. Maybe 28 but even that is debateable because the whole team folded up in the second half.

But most of Reed's catches (5) and yards (124) came in the 1st half while it was still a football game. His 2 big catches came when Dallas only had 14 on the board. After only having the ball for 1 more offensive play the Bills were down by 18. Reed caught the ball 8 of the 9 times they threw his way. The only 1 that wasn't a completion was the play that Kelly got hurt.

[Sen. John Blutarsky]

But most of Reed's catches (5) and yards (124) came in the 1st half while it was still a football game. His 2 big catches came when Dallas only had 14 on the board. After only having the ball for 1 more offensive play the Bills were down by 18. Reed caught the ball 8 of the 9 times they threw his way. The only 1 that wasn't a completion was the play that Kelly got hurt.

Like I said, he had a good game in SB 27. The others, not so much.

[DE Bills Fan]

Totally disagree with you. First, Andre put up great numbers for many years.. Two, many of his yeards were over the middle so they were tough yeards and three, while I agree that he had a critical drop in that game, he also acknowledged after the game that it was the hardest he was ever hit. One game does not make a career my friend. he definitely deserves to go in. Check out his numbers, they are at the top of the house in many categories.

[Alaska Darin]

First, let's see just exactly how much more prolific statswise Monk was, why don't we?

 

Reed: led Bills in receiving nine times in the ten seasons from 1988-1997. Seven Pro Bowls.

951 catches, 13198 yards, 13.9 ypc, 87 touchdowns.

19 playoff games, 85 catches-1230 yards, 9 touchdowns. Five 100-yard games, of which the Bills won 3... including the most memorable, the Comeback.

 

Monk: led Redskins in receiving four times in his fourteen seasons in Washington. Three Pro Bowls.

940 catches, 12721 yards, 13.5 ypc, 68 touchdowns.

15 playoff games, 69 catches-1062 yards, 7 touchdowns. Four 100-yard games; SB XXVI was the only one of those the Redskins won. Even then, Monk wasn't Washington's leading receiver in that game, Gary Clark was.

 

951 > 940, 13198 > 12721, 13.9 > 13.5, and 87 > 68.

 

Yes, let's do.

#5 all-time in receptions: as already noted, NO Hall of Fame WR has more catches than Reed.

#8 all-time in receiving yards: former teammate James Lofton is the only current HOF enshrinee with more.

#10 all-time in touchdown catches: only Steve Largent, Don Hutson, and Don Maynard top him in this category among HOF WRs.

13 seasons with 50+ catches. Jerry Rice is the only other WR that can make that claim, until Marvin Harrison gets there two years from now. Nobody else has more than 11. Ever.

Lynn Swann? Are you serious? 336 receptions-5462 yards-51 TD Lynn Swann? Care to guess how many 1,000 yard seasons he had? Try ZERO (look it up). He wasn't even the best receiver on his own TEAM; Stallworth was. Swann got in first because everybody remembered the Super Bowl X highlight film.

 

Do yourself a favor and watch the second half of the Comeback game instead. No Kelly. No Thurman. Oilers knew Reed was getting the ball, and he still torched them for three second-half touchdowns. If you truly think one game defines a career, I'd be more than happy to submit that performance against ANY in league history.

How long has it been since I said "I love you, man?"