mikecole1 Posted January 26, 2007 Posted January 26, 2007 Apologies for the repeat post but I really wanted to start a debate about whether Andre deserves to go into the Hall of Fame. I watched that game on the NFL Network last night and watched the drive killing drops, and have to say I had doubts before about his Hall of Fame worthiness and that just affirmed he DOES NOT belong. Kelly, B. Smith and TT (along with Marv)? Ok. Reed goes in and in my mind you're just watering down the HOF. If Art Monk (much more prolific statswise and has a ring) isn't getting in the Hall how can you possibly say Andre Reed deserves in? He self destructed in those first two super bowls, the game's greatest stage, and he was borderline for the Hall otherwise. When Andre Reed was in front of the game's biggest spotlight four times he came up so small. How can you say he deserves to be in there before Art Monk? I don't see it. Now let's talk about his stats: The game is littered with dozens of 1,000 yard receivers out there, especially these days (Laverneus Coles, Santana Moss, take your pick). They don't deserve to be in the hall either. Was Andre Reed a very very good player during his day? Yes. Is he a Hall of Famer? I say no, he's not. It took Lynn Swann forever to get in. He was definitely more worthy. Furthermore, I looked at Reed's stats from that SBXXV year and he wasn't even a 1,000 yard receiver (look it up). I'm a Bills fan but after watching that replay televised last night - I have to say he does NOT get my benefit of the doubt if I'm a writer watching that game. Sorry, he just doesn't.
apuszczalowski Posted January 26, 2007 Posted January 26, 2007 Apologies for the repeat post but I really wanted to start a debate about whether Andre deserves to go into the Hall of Fame. I watched that game on the NFL Network last night and watched the drive killing drops, and have to say I had doubts before about his Hall of Fame worthiness and that just affirmed he DOES NOT belong. Kelly, B. Smith and TT (along with Marv)? Ok. Reed goes in and in my mind you're just watering down the HOF. If Art Monk (much more prolific statswise and has a ring) isn't getting in the Hall how can you possibly say Andre Reed deserves in? He self destructed in those first two super bowls, the game's greatest stage, and he was borderline for the Hall otherwise. When Andre Reed was in front of the game's biggest spotlight four times he came up so small. How can you say he deserves to be in there before Art Monk? I don't see it. Now let's talk about his stats: The game is littered with dozens of 1,000 yard receivers out there, especially these days (Laverneus Coles, Santana Moss, take your pick). They don't deserve to be in the hall either. Was Andre Reed a very very good player during his day? Yes. Is he a Hall of Famer? I say no, he's not. It took Lynn Swann forever to get in. He was definitely more worthy. Furthermore, I looked at Reed's stats from that SBXXV year and he wasn't even a 1,000 yard receiver (look it up). I'm a Bills fan but after watching that replay televised last night - I have to say he does NOT get my benefit of the doubt if I'm a writer watching that game. Sorry, he just doesn't. The NFL looks at career stats and all game stats for HOF entrees, not just SB games and rings. Over Reeds Career he has put up some big numbers and is up there on alot of career stats. I believe he will make it, eventually. He will have to wait, but one day he will make it.
JÂy RÛßeÒ Posted January 26, 2007 Posted January 26, 2007 The NFL looks at career stats and all game stats for HOF entrees, not just SB games and rings. Over Reeds Career he has put up some big numbers and is up there on alot of career stats. I believe he will make it, eventually. He will have to wait, but one day he will make it. As he dropped 2 or 3 in a row (granted after taking some nasty shots) I was thinking that it was unfortunate timing for this to be re-aired as far as his HOF vote goes. Thurman OTOH it can only help. He was a monster in this game - if only he had had more touches
Lurker Posted January 26, 2007 Posted January 26, 2007 Glad to see a guy's career condensed to his performance in one game you happend to catch on the tube last night. Thanks for stopping bye...
Cripes Posted January 26, 2007 Posted January 26, 2007 Jim Kelly and Thurman Thomas did more to kill the Bills in their Super Bowl runs than Andre Reed did with those drops.
Pete Posted January 26, 2007 Posted January 26, 2007 Andre is one of the toughest wide receivers I have ever seen play. That Superbowl is the only time I have ever seen him scared. That Giant secondary was hitting big time that game. Andre heard footsteps a few plays
2003Contenders Posted January 26, 2007 Posted January 26, 2007 Also, in Reed's defense that was a pretty good Giants defense he faced, which was predicated on stooping the passing attack with as many as 8 guys dropping back into coverage. To me it was pretty amazing that he managed to get open as often as he did.
mikecole1 Posted January 26, 2007 Author Posted January 26, 2007 Glad to see a guy's career condensed to his performance in one game you happend to catch on the tube last night. Thanks for stopping bye... Shut up with the "stopping by" nonsense. First off dude, my whole point is that Andre Reed was a marginal candidate to begin with and these games did nothing to put him over the top and support his cause. Secondly, if you knew anything at all about sports you'd wake up and realize like most knowledgeable sports fans that greatness is often defined by one or two games. Lives, careers (and yes inclusion into the Hall of Fame) get changed by one or two games. And yes careers DO get condensed to a performance in a big game (especially the biggest). Buffalo fans know all this by now. Andre Reed had four Super Bowls to make his case.
MadBuffaloDisease Posted January 26, 2007 Posted January 26, 2007 Andre heard footsteps that day, to be sure. Don't know if that kills him as a HOF'er though.
Tcali Posted January 26, 2007 Posted January 26, 2007 Apologies for the repeat post but I really wanted to start a debate about whether Andre deserves to go into the Hall of Fame. I watched that game on the NFL Network last night and watched the drive killing drops, and have to say I had doubts before about his Hall of Fame worthiness and that just affirmed he DOES NOT belong. Kelly, B. Smith and TT (along with Marv)? Ok. Reed goes in and in my mind you're just watering down the HOF. If Art Monk (much more prolific statswise and has a ring) isn't getting in the Hall how can you possibly say Andre Reed deserves in? He self destructed in those first two super bowls, the game's greatest stage, and he was borderline for the Hall otherwise. When Andre Reed was in front of the game's biggest spotlight four times he came up so small. How can you say he deserves to be in there before Art Monk? I don't see it. Now let's talk about his stats: The game is littered with dozens of 1,000 yard receivers out there, especially these days (Laverneus Coles, Santana Moss, take your pick). They don't deserve to be in the hall either. Was Andre Reed a very very good player during his day? Yes. Is he a Hall of Famer? I say no, he's not. It took Lynn Swann forever to get in. He was definitely more worthy. Furthermore, I looked at Reed's stats from that SBXXV year and he wasn't even a 1,000 yard receiver (look it up). I'm a Bills fan but after watching that replay televised last night - I have to say he does NOT get my benefit of the doubt if I'm a writer watching that game. Sorry, he just doesn't. SADLY--Reed had his owrst game in his biggest game.But that shouldnt keep him out on its own.I think he is a marginal hall pick
bluv Posted January 26, 2007 Posted January 26, 2007 That was just ONE so-so game; at least he showed up and had 8 grabs! I mean Marvin Harrison has been subpar not in SB but in many playoff games! I mean the Lynn Swann comparison is BS for if you ask me just being lucky to have the opportunity to play in a SB and having a few good games shouldn't define a HOF career. Stallworth was way better than Swann year in and year out. But being that those games were played before the technology age before the internet, before Fantasy Football and before the Sunday Ticket he was overglorified because the SB was one of the few times the fans got to see some in action and he played outstanding. For all of our superstars Reed and Cornileus Bennet were the only ones who at least played average in all 4 SB's. In the 1st Super Bowl against the Cowboys Reed was the ONLY Buffalo Bill to show up! And TT, while I love him to death might as well not showed up for the next 3 SBs but should that keep him out the HOF, HELL NO as he as well as Andre had so many big games in the season and playoffs that got us there.
34-78-83 Posted January 26, 2007 Posted January 26, 2007 I posted something like this last night as well.... Reed was the class of the league other than Rice at WR during much of his career (atleast his prime). He was the reason they started measuring RAC (run after catch). He went to what 7 Pro Bowls? Playoff career stats: 85 catches 1230 yds 9 TDs
obie_wan Posted January 26, 2007 Posted January 26, 2007 Shut up with the "stopping by" nonsense. First off dude, my whole point is that Andre Reed was a marginal candidate to begin with and these games did nothing to put him over the top and support his cause. Secondly, if you knew anything at all about sports you'd wake up and realize like most knowledgeable sports fans that greatness is often defined by one or two games. Lives, careers (and yes inclusion into the Hall of Fame) get changed by one or two games. And yes careers DO get condensed to a performance in a big game (especially the biggest). Buffalo fans know all this by now. Andre Reed had four Super Bowls to make his case. that must be why he held a few Super Bowl records until Jerry rice broke them.
keepthefaith Posted January 26, 2007 Posted January 26, 2007 That was just ONE so-so game; at least he showed up and had 8 grabs! I mean Marvin Harrison has been subpar not in SB but in many playoff games! I mean the Lynn Swann comparison is BS for if you ask me just being lucky to have the opportunity to play in a SB and having a few good games shouldn't define a HOF career. Stallworth was way better than Swann year in and year out. But being that those games were played before the technology age before the internet, before Fantasy Football and before the Sunday Ticket he was overglorified because the SB was one of the few times the fans got to see some in action and he played outstanding. For all of our superstars Reed and Cornileus Bennet were the only ones who at least played average in all 4 SB's. In the 1st Super Bowl against the Cowboys Reed was the ONLY Buffalo Bill to show up! And TT, while I love him to death might as well not showed up for the next 3 SBs but should that keep him out the HOF, HELL NO as he as well as Andre had so many big games in the season and playoffs that got us there. It could easily be argued that Lynn Swann has no business being in the HOF. His numbers are weak (less than 5500 yards and 336 receptions. He was lucky to play for the Steelers. HOF voting process is very subjective and political as well.
Buftex Posted January 26, 2007 Posted January 26, 2007 Shut up with the "stopping by" nonsense. First off dude, my whole point is that Andre Reed was a marginal candidate to begin with and these games did nothing to put him over the top and support his cause. Secondly, if you knew anything at all about sports you'd wake up and realize like most knowledgeable sports fans that greatness is often defined by one or two games. Lives, careers (and yes inclusion into the Hall of Fame) get changed by one or two games. And yes careers DO get condensed to a performance in a big game (especially the biggest). Buffalo fans know all this by now. Andre Reed had four Super Bowls to make his case. First, let me say, I think Art Monk belongs in the HOF, but so too does Andre Reed. So Reed's career is not HOF worthy because of three drops in a SB game, but Art Monk, whose greatest accomplishment were stats, spurred by his longevity (and he was never as good a WR as Reed was for about 5 years) gets the benefit of statistics and one ring? If you read Bill Parcells book (the title escapes me at the moment), he said that the defensive gameplan against the Bills in SB 25 was centered around taking the Andre Reed and Jim Kelly connection out of the game. You seem to forget that Reed was one of the very best recievers in the leauge for a few seasons (behind Jerry Rice), had tremendous stats in his prime, and had many huge playoff games. Conversely, if you are using the "one or two great games" argument, shouldn't Reed's performance in the "comeback" game merit some extra consideration?
Stenbar Posted January 26, 2007 Posted January 26, 2007 Andre is one of the toughest wide receivers I have ever seen play. That Superbowl is the only time I have ever seen him scared. That Giant secondary was hitting big time that game. Andre heard footsteps a few plays Let us not forget Andres throwing of his helmet resulting in a 15 yrd unsportmsanlike penalty at the end of the first half in super bowl 26...Andre does not deserve to be in the Hall of Fame..He wasnt mister clutch in any of the 4 SuperBowl games..Dropped too many passes and ran his helmet off his head and lost his composure that cost us a FG against the Skins...
Patience Posted January 26, 2007 Posted January 26, 2007 Name me one WR in the current HOF that has more catches than Reed.
Buftex Posted January 26, 2007 Posted January 26, 2007 So, it seems that what all of you "no-Andre Reed in the HOF" people seem to be saying, no player who plays on a non-SB winning team deserves to be in the HOF. Now give me all the fantastic logic that says Michael Irvin doesn't belong either....
Buftex Posted January 26, 2007 Posted January 26, 2007 Andre does not deserve to be in the Hall of Fame..He wasnt mister clutch in any of the 4 SuperBowl games.. How many "clutch" situations were the Bills in, in their last three Super Bowls? From the tone of some of the nay-sayers, I would think we were arguing if Don Beebe was HOF material... IMO, Andre Reed is the most underappreciated player in Bills modern history, amongst Bills fans.
Pyrite Gal Posted January 26, 2007 Posted January 26, 2007 It certainly is a questionable case whether Reed belongs in the HOF, buy despite the ongoing argumentation style of the news media as seen on networks like CNN and Fox News, folks are settling into a realization that hard cases make bad laws. There is little reason beside folks loving to cause or see a hissy fit to argue flat out that Reed does not belong in because other deserving WRs (some with better cumulative stats than Reed) have been left out or that he clutched his throat rather than the ball (like too many of the Bills difference makers in the big game). I think the NFL actually showed some wisdom in making this a popularity contest for the committee rather than a static application of stats or a media or fan based popularity contest. The solution of letting a committee of "experts" decide has produced a few clinkers and a few oversights, but in general the decisions arrived at have been at least tolerable and since they really do not stand up completely to either a statistic based argument of who deserves in or a strongly held relatively fact-free opinions the HOF Committee still has produced generably tolerable results. In my view I am quite comfortable with Reed being a finalist to get in given him meeting the basic requirement of being famous for his football play (it is the HOF afterall and not the Hall of Great Play or the Hall of Clutch Production). Mere fame does not strike me as good enough, but: 1. His career #s which far exceeded his low draft status (remember its the HOFame and expectations count in thus version of reality). 2. As an amazing tribute to the Bills making a likely to never be repeated 4 straight (even though the 3 wins in 4 years by the Pats is arguably a more noterworthy achievement, I doubt 4 straight even as a loser will be repeated). 3. Being on the receiving and RAC end of many of HOF member Kelly's TD throws I think Reed gets in eventually and deserves it. It strikes me as fair and balanced if he does NOT get in on his first ballot for the reasons cited for him not getting in at all, but no particular big game performances, his hissy fit with his helmet or even his sad ending strike me as rationals for disqualification entirely for not getting this reward which by design is a case where reasonable people (or unreasonable people can disagree.
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