Okoye

[marauderswr80]

This is a highly risky pick if you ask me......287 pound DT in the NFL dont stick around too long!

[JStranger76]

It's not like the kid couldn't put on all the weight he needs before THE DRAFT, not to mention the season. Who's to say McCargo can't be the guy who they want to bulk up for the nose? If Okoye is BPA, you better take him, he could be our Tommy Harris!

[RuntheDamnBall]

"All signs point to yes.": Who invited the Magic 8-ball?

[Phlegm Alley]

It's not like the kid couldn't put on all the weight he needs before THE DRAFT, not to mention the season. Who's to say McCargo can't be the guy who they want to bulk up for the nose? If Okoye is BPA, you better take him, he could be our Tommy Harris!

 

 

That is exactly what I'm saying...You don't need a HUGE DT to make a difference in the run game. You need a penetrating force that can disrupt plays by messing up the offenses blocking schemes which will open up things for the rest of the DL.

 

Tommie Harris allowed players like Mark Anderson (a 5th round rookie out of Alabama) to record 12 sacks this season. It also allowed O-Gun to have a stellar year. And most importantly, it allowed Urlacher and Briggs to become major forces in the run game.

[Lori]

This is a highly risky pick if you ask me......287 pound DT in the NFL dont stick around too long!

There's still a few. Rod Coleman, La'Roi Glover, and John Thornton are all sub-300, and all have had decent careers.

 

Regarding the OL/DL, here's how much the game has changed in the last 10-20 years: Mean Joe Greene played at 275... Dan Hampton 264... Dierdorf 275... heck, Joe DeLamielleure (254) would've been a blocking FB or TE in today's NFL. In fact, scanning the 2003 HoF media guide (the most recent print edition I have), no enshrinee tips the scales more than Mike Munchak (281).

(Betcha Madden's got him beat, though... )

[In space no one can hear]

Gee, I dunno. 19 years old and 287 lbs. I wonder if he'll EVER put any pounds on. By the time he retires from the NFL he might get up to 298 - do ya think?

 

 

I don't consider myself fat-

 

but if he puts on as many lbs. as I have since I was 19-he will sufficiently plug the middle!

 

Maybe it's a blessing in disguise that his weight is down....if it wasn't I really don't think there is any

 

possibility that he would be there for us.

[tennesseeboy]

Whenever he actually played football (and played it well enough to get everyone's attention as a hell of a defensive lineman) he weighed over 310 and was anything but logy. He will play somewhere around 290 on Saturday and he will be working with the Bills staff on nutrition issues to find an optimum weight. I don't know why anyone would take his weight on January 20, 2007, after the regular season, as the weight at which he will be playing.

 

run stuffing in the middle of the defensive line (big fat or little and skinny) is what kept us out of the playoffs this year and will keep us out of the playoffs next year. I don't care much how much he weighed last week, or even how he practices. I'll be interested in saying how he actually plays football...

[Pyrite Gal]

1. Bruce played at a weight in the 260's.

 

2. No matter how long your response, your logic on not drafting a top flight MLB remains completely without foundation.

 

Just because it may be a difficult position to master is no reason to avoid drafting a fine player. With the lack of quality free agents, good drafting is the only sure way to get the studs you need.

 

In fact, based on last year's ignoring trades to draft Whitner at a high priority position, makes it even more likely that the the Bills will spend a high pick on their hand picked replacement at MLB -just because it is so important a position in the cover -2.

 

It's not that I am against drafting and getting a player of Willis' caliber, its just that I think there is little chance that he could replace Fletcher at starting MLB without us having to simply suffer through the things Fletcher can do that Willis almost certainly will not be able to do.

 

Perhaps the foundation for this thinking can be found in answering several questions:

 

1. Do you think that Willis will be able to diagnose plays as well as a rookie as F-B can with a decade of watching NFL plays on tape and from the center of the field?

 

2. Do you think that Willis will bring to his play reading the same level of skills which made F-B the captain of the D and which allowed him to quickly diagnose game situations and advocate the Bills positions to the refs as he consistently seemed to and has been said by players to do often?

 

3, Do you think that a rookie Willis will be able to master a fairly complex Fewell/Jauron D well enough to be able to call signals and make adjustments just prior to the snap, or if not how do you see the Bills compensating for Willis not being able to perform this F-B duty by either switching to either safeties of one of the OLBs doing this even though they are not in the best position for communicating with the far side of the field?

 

The foundation for my thinking is that the answer to these questions are:

 

1. Willis and quite frankly no boy who has only played the college game will be able to read and diagnose plays like a 10 year vet. Further, because the MLB in our system is required to both tackle runners and also to play the middle deep zone, if a mistake is made in this area as all rookies do it has the potential to be very bad for us.

 

2, Its simply gonna take awhile for any rookie to learn to read plays like a vet and this is crucial to this role and further though I believe from what I have seen and heard of him that Willis is a better tackler than F-B and at least a fair cover guy, I do not (and hope you can share with us) the foundation for concluding or even the indications of him having pro level zone coverage abilities.

 

3. No, I do not expect a rookie to master a D of the complexity of the Fewell/Jauron system that it has the capability of virtually stoning a talented Jets offense. If one sets up a situation where your starting MLB is either Willis or DeGregorio, I do not see a rookie having the ability to call the plays or make the changes at the LOS, and please share with us the info you have that I do not which shows or indicates Whitner or Simpson is up to this in their second year.

 

My guess is either you have Crowell or TKO do this (though I suspect it is Crowell and not TKO as he has other fish to fry rehabbing still) and if one has Crowell do this, then why not have him man the MLB slot and either get an OLB who most pundits have as highly ranked as Willis or instead go to a proven FA LB who can team with TKO and Crowell to give us what may be the best LB unit in football.

 

This is the basis of my thinking and does not seem totally out to lunch to me, but perhaps you can clarify why this thinking is without foundation.

 

I like Willis play and think he would hold down the MLB spot for us for years, I simply believe rookies usually have some learning curve and I am not sure that either Marv or Ralph wanna take a year to endure that. Perhaps they have told you otherwise.

[obie_wan]

It's not that I am against drafting and getting a player of Willis' caliber, its just that I think there is little chance that he could replace Fletcher at starting MLB without us having to simply suffer through the things Fletcher can do that Willis almost certainly will not be able to do.

 

Perhaps the foundation for this thinking can be found in answering several questions:

 

1. Do you think that Willis will be able to diagnose plays as well as a rookie as F-B can with a decade of watching NFL plays on tape and from the center of the field?

 

2. Do you think that Willis will bring to his play reading the same level of skills which made F-B the captain of the D and which allowed him to quickly diagnose game situations and advocate the Bills positions to the refs as he consistently seemed to and has been said by players to do often?

 

3, Do you think that a rookie Willis will be able to master a fairly complex Fewell/Jauron D well enough to be able to call signals and make adjustments just prior to the snap, or if not how do you see the Bills compensating for Willis not being able to perform this F-B duty by either switching to either safeties of one of the OLBs doing this even though they are not in the best position for communicating with the far side of the field?

 

The foundation for my thinking is that the answer to these questions are:

 

1. Willis and quite frankly no boy who has only played the college game will be able to read and diagnose plays like a 10 year vet. Further, because the MLB in our system is required to both tackle runners and also to play the middle deep zone, if a mistake is made in this area as all rookies do it has the potential to be very bad for us.

 

2, Its simply gonna take awhile for any rookie to learn to read plays like a vet and this is crucial to this role and further though I believe from what I have seen and heard of him that Willis is a better tackler than F-B and at least a fair cover guy, I do not (and hope you can share with us) the foundation for concluding or even the indications of him having pro level zone coverage abilities.

 

3. No, I do not expect a rookie to master a D of the complexity of the Fewell/Jauron system that it has the capability of virtually stoning a talented Jets offense. If one sets up a situation where your starting MLB is either Willis or DeGregorio, I do not see a rookie having the ability to call the plays or make the changes at the LOS, and please share with us the info you have that I do not which shows or indicates Whitner or Simpson is up to this in their second year.

 

My guess is either you have Crowell or TKO do this (though I suspect it is Crowell and not TKO as he has other fish to fry rehabbing still) and if one has Crowell do this, then why not have him man the MLB slot and either get an OLB who most pundits have as highly ranked as Willis or instead go to a proven FA LB who can team with TKO and Crowell to give us what may be the best LB unit in football.

 

This is the basis of my thinking and does not seem totally out to lunch to me, but perhaps you can clarify why this thinking is without foundation.

 

I like Willis play and think he would hold down the MLB spot for us for years, I simply believe rookies usually have some learning curve and I am not sure that either Marv or Ralph wanna take a year to endure that. Perhaps they have told you otherwise.

 

 

Any rookie will have a learning curve.

 

This being your main point does not support your conclusion to strictly oppose drafting a MLB in the early rounds.

 

You get the studs when they are available and train them to play - even if takes a few games to get up to speed.

[2003Contenders]

I think some people are placing too much emphasis on his weight. By all accounts he has looked exceptional this week in Senior Bowl practices. And 287 lbs of lean muscle is still harder to hold at bay than 300+ lbs of fat goo...

[John from Riverside]

Right now Okoye is a no-brainer, clearly the best player at our position of most need. He can and has played very well at the 310 range and has slimmed down to be looking good. I remember one other defensive lineman we put a first round on who never really did much in the NFL until he lost some weight...and I think we are all pretty happy with Bruce Smith.

 

Things might change leading up to the draft. Depending on free agency moves (Bills leaving and new folks coming) our needs might change. Okoye will be a major improvement for some team like Ngata was. We'll just have to see if he's the guy for us. No doubt in my mind that right now he is the best use of our number one pick.

 

I actually was worried the bills would not look at him till I heard he SLIMMED DOWN.....

 

Now he sounds like he has all the makings of a bills tampa 2 version guy......

[Pyrite Gal]

Any rookie will have a learning curve.

 

This being your main point does not support your conclusion to strictly oppose drafting a MLB in the early rounds.

 

You get the studs when they are available and train them to play - even if takes a few games to get up to speed.

 

A few games is one thing, a season or two is another. Simply ask those several fans who were willing to throw JP away after his second season or more importantly ask Ralph who was quite apologetic after our meltdown last season which included TD getting (and deserving) to be canned in part after the young player he an entrusted a key starting position to (replacing a vet whom most judged to be beyond his time) to a young player who needed some PT before he could be effective.

 

This analogy is not perfect as the QB position strikes me as more difficult to learn than the MLB position.

 

However, the other difference is that JP entering his second year also had alot more pro experience than the rookie Willis would.

 

Another difference is that the QB position is asked to initiate plays whereas the MLB is responding. However, this real world difference points directly to why pro experience is a very good thing for our MLB to have. This is especially true in the version of the D we run because the MLB is required to make critical judgments on third down to diagnose whether the play is going to be a post pattern into their zone (better fall back particularly if it is a speedy WR or if it is draw play up the gut (better pinch in particularly if our DTs are gonna be the run play turnstiles they were this past season particularly against better (who didn't Tomlinson tattoo this year) or inspired (Travis clearly was not taking prisoners) runners.

 

I actually am glad you are at least willing to concede that this will take a few games as this also now seems to acknowledge some foundation for my thinking since I typed more slowly while explaining my misguided thinking.

 

I also agree with folks thoughts about wanting to upgrade at MLB as we got run on successfully too much. However, perhaps the Willis thought is more inspired by the likely need to replace an FA F-B than you concluding he simply is not good enough of a run stuffer to be wanted at MLB. Since actually I think a deeper analysis of our run D problems would take into account:

 

1. Complaints about him making tackles to deep downfield would seem primarily to me to be an idictment against our DL as they need to get through the first wave before he gets to the LB level. I think this complaint on F-Bs play (assuming one buys this as the issue) seems to be more of a reason to get a run stuffing DT.

 

2. Perhaps this complaint is about F-B simply not filling the gap between DTs or being "light in the pants" as some would say. Again however, this argument does seem to ignore the fact that actually the Bills D the way we run it actually has the MLB playing a lot of pass coverage (particularly on 3rd down but also on second and long). The statisitical indicator of this (and it is an indicator as stats rarely are conclusive) is that F-B led all MLBs in INTs this year, my sense is this because the Bills' coaches player a style which used F-B in pass coverage rather than attacking the LOS. A stat that particularly indicates this is that not only did he lead LBs in INTs but actually led the Bills in INTs beating out NC and McGee. IMHO opinion this is because in our Cover 2 the CBs are required to do press coverage in the shorter zones (10 yds and in) and they release receivers to the safeties and MLB going deep hence more INTs for the MLB and also likely more tackles down the field.

 

Another statisitical indicator is the relative # of solo tackles to assisted tackles for F-B. If in fact the key issue is of him being too light to bring down runners by himself, then I think we would see more missed tackles by him or more assists as he needed the help of other Bills to bring a runner down while he hung on for dear life.

 

Yet, by a 2:1 ratio not only did he have solo tackles but he also comfortably lead the team in tackles credited to him (if he missed more tackles then his fellow Bills should get them or if he was too weak tackles would tend to be assisted rather than being by predominantly solo).

 

It may be silly or wrong or whatever, but since I have yet to see this analysis controverted by any analyses of objective measures and with nothing more than short fact-free opinions it sounds more credible to me.

[John from Riverside]

Whenever he actually played football (and played it well enough to get everyone's attention as a hell of a defensive lineman) he weighed over 310 and was anything but logy. He will play somewhere around 290 on Saturday and he will be working with the Bills staff on nutrition issues to find an optimum weight. I don't know why anyone would take his weight on January 20, 2007, after the regular season, as the weight at which he will be playing.

 

run stuffing in the middle of the defensive line (big fat or little and skinny) is what kept us out of the playoffs this year and will keep us out of the playoffs next year. I don't care much how much he weighed last week, or even how he practices. I'll be interested in saying how he actually plays football...

 

 

Im with you tennessee......we need to be able to control the line of scrimmage and create more "3rd and longs" so we can get our pass rush going on these good offensive teams.....

 

Sometimes it seems like folks get amnesia on what the problem areas were after the season ends.......you put a strong stout force like Okoye in front of the these linebackers and watch that defense improve.....

[KOKBILLS]

The pundits view Alan Branch as the top DT in the draft. He's kind of in the John Henderson mold and will almost certainly be a top 10 pick, maybe top 5. So Okoye will very likely be there at 12 (also the fact that he's a smallish DT and only 19 could scare some away)

 

Agreed...Especially concerning Branch who has ideal size and ability for a DT...

[MadBuffaloDisease]

Okoye is Tommie Harris (both 6'2" and 290# range when drafted). But the Bills have their versions (not the ability level, at least not yet in McCargo's case) in McCargo and Tripplett. I think they look for an Ian Scott-kind of player in FA or the draft.

[Nanker]

All indications are pointing toward the Bears resigning Briggs. They have nearly as much cap space as Buffalo.

 

Problem is, everyone has as much cap space as Buffalo.

 

Clearly this is not your father's Cap Era of Free Agency.

[billybob]

Is he down to 287 ? more likely he was never at 317 - always have to take college heights and weights with a grain of salt- what matters most is frame size which somewhat determines how much lean body mass someone can carry before it starts to interfer with athletic movement. I think the kid will be a good player but I don't think he's 12th best player in this years draft.

[Oneonta Buffalo Fan]

YES!