The Big Cat Posted January 22, 2007 Posted January 22, 2007 That's right, you quoted me three times, and I'm glad that each time you found my opinion more and more entertaining. I don't think he's a Peyton Manning, or a Joe Montanna, or Dan Marino, or any other "great Quarterback." I think he's an accurate passer (something EVERY starting NFL QB should be) who plays behind an impenetrable offense line. He has good receivers coming out of the backfield, a very good receiving option in his tight end, and serviceable wide receivers- funny how a monster offensive line can make receivers look great. Tom Brady is just a decent NFL quarterback with GREAT coaching and a very EFFECTIVE supporting cast.
Captain Hindsight Posted January 22, 2007 Posted January 22, 2007 i have a sneaky suspicion that pats losing conference finals to a team they used to own in the playoffs will be the official end of their championship winning / contending run. bellicheck is no better than chuck noll, tom landry and don shula and all of them went out on the bottom too. i sure hope your right, heres to the beginningof the end
MRW Posted January 22, 2007 Posted January 22, 2007 If thats the case then why were the Pats 5-11 in 2000 under Bledsoe & Belichick? Check the Pats record pre & post Brady. He's a first ballot Hall of Famer who upon entering Canton will drop trou and proceed to take a crap on Jim Kelly's bust. Amazing how one post moves you from "other team's fan" to "obnoxious troll". I'm sorry if somebody insulted your pet QB but remember you're on a Bills board here and show a little respect.
Golden Wheels Posted January 22, 2007 Posted January 22, 2007 Something tells me Bob Kraft won't waste any picks this year......just a hunch.
BuffaloBilliever Posted January 22, 2007 Posted January 22, 2007 I truly, truly believe that the Bills win the division next year. They seem complete, they seem well grounded, and have the foundation. But... the LB corp is in general depleting. Seau, Vrabel, and Bruschi are done next year. CB Samuel and Gay are gone next year, and Rashad Baker (pffffft) won't make much of depth for them at safety. O-Line they'll pull someone out of their ass, Brady is due for a slump year, Maroney IS a feature back, Patrick Pass is on his way out, and WR's are nada. case in point, they're set on the lines and at QB/HB. They'll need a TON of help in the offseason to keep this team above the Bills/Jets/Dolphins.
Prognastic Posted January 23, 2007 Posted January 23, 2007 I truly, truly believe that the Bills win the division next year. They seem complete, they seem well grounded, and have the foundation. But... the LB corp is in general depleting. Seau, Vrabel, and Bruschi are done next year. CB Samuel and Gay are gone next year, and Rashad Baker (pffffft) won't make much of depth for them at safety. O-Line they'll pull someone out of their ass, Brady is due for a slump year, Maroney IS a feature back, Patrick Pass is on his way out, and WR's are nada. case in point, they're set on the lines and at QB/HB. They'll need a TON of help in the offseason to keep this team above the Bills/Jets/Dolphins. Just like the Dolphins were supposed to take the mantle THIS year? Keep predicting it though, one of these years it has to come true I guess.
SACTOBILLSFAN Posted January 23, 2007 Posted January 23, 2007 I have to fervently disagree here. I am not sold on Tom Brady as a quarterback. Wow. Speaking of disastard...
BuffaloBilliever Posted January 23, 2007 Posted January 23, 2007 He's too good... and the Fins were NOT ready to take the division. One quarterback added to the roster doesn't change a damn thing, and that's what the media thought the only thing they needed was. They forgot an Offensive Line, Safeties, and a coaching staff.
The Big Cat Posted January 23, 2007 Posted January 23, 2007 Wow. Speaking of disastard... If only there was a smiley for sarcastic chortling.
In space no one can hear Posted January 23, 2007 Posted January 23, 2007 I have to fervently disagree here. I am not sold on Tom Brady as a quarterback. I am sold on the New England system. Bellechick seeks players he can plug in to his gameplan to perform one task well and he/they/everyone succeeds. It's so complicated it's simple. Christ, even Bledsoe found success in New England and he's a disastard. Did he actually state that he is not sold on Tom Brady as a Qb? Maybe "VikingGumBoot" is another term for "He knows not what he says" Sorry 'GumBoot but you just earned yourself a spot in my signature next to Ko Simpson. P.S. What was your Wonderlic score?
ganesh Posted January 23, 2007 Posted January 23, 2007 Tom Brady is just a decent NFL quarterback with GREAT coaching and a very EFFECTIVE supporting cast. I would love to see JP be that "decent' quarterback.... BTW, I could say the same thing with Belichek.... Belichek is just a decent NFL Head coach with GREAT players in a very EFFECTIVE system...considering how average he was in Cleveland....
The Big Cat Posted January 23, 2007 Posted January 23, 2007 Did he actually state that he is not sold on Tom Brady as a Qb? Maybe "VikingGumBoot" is another term for "He knows not what he says" Sorry 'GumBoot but you just earned yourself a spot in my signature next to Ko Simpson. P.S. What was your Wonderlic score? Oh for crying out loud- here I thought we were Buffalo Bills fans born into this world with an irrational hatred and skeptisism towards every other AFC East quarterback! I know what I said- I hate Tom Brady: I think he's spoiled: spoiled by his coach, his OL, and (up until this year) his kicker; and combined with his dimples and lantern jaw (which may or may not have resulted from steroid use) his success has resulted in an ongoing slobbery fellatio from the national media- which I find intolerable. I thought his performance as host of SNL was an insult to sketch comedy, he acts like a petulant kid on the sideline when things don't go his way, and what do you know? When he has to get closer than 30 yards from the endzone HE DOESN'T win the playoff game! Instead, he throws an interception. Superman indeed. As for my Wonderlic score? Did great on the verbal, but failed miserably at the peer-reviewed esoteric QB evaluations-which, I'm told, don't count for sh--.
truth on hold Posted January 23, 2007 Author Posted January 23, 2007 Oh for crying out loud- here I thought we were Buffalo Bills fans born into this world with an irrational hatred and skeptisism towards every other AFC East quarterback! I know what I said- I hate Tom Brady: I think he's spoiled: spoiled by his coach, his OL, and (up until this year) his kicker; and combined with his dimples and lantern jaw (which may or may not have resulted from steroid use) his success has resulted in an ongoing slobbery fellatio from the national media- which I find intolerable. I thought his performance as host of SNL was an insult to sketch comedy, he acts like a petulant kid on the sideline when things don't go his way, and what do you know? When he has to get closer than 30 yards from the endzone HE DOESN'T win the playoff game! Instead, he throws an interception. Superman indeed. As for my Wonderlic score? Did great on the verbal, but failed miserably at the peer-reviewed esoteric QB evaluations-which, I'm told, don't count for sh--. i started this thread and im sorry to see it degenerate into a pissing contest. but when u break it down it all comes down to one thing: either you believe pats can do no wrong (i.e. you've totally bought into "mystique") or if you believe as i do that they have their fair share of flaws and stumbles and like anyone facing a very difficult need to fill several high profile positions they will stumble some. to all the mystique lovers i'd put forth the following: - if pats are so perfect they don't lose branch and are probably playing in miami in 2 weeks. i consider that a huge blunder; - they made a good move getting seau to press the now useless bruschi (not their fault seau got hurt) but they did nothing to address the high likelihood harrison wouldn't be the same player after total knee reconstruction at 33. another blunder that could have cost them a trip to south florida; - this is the 2nd year in a row theyve failed to make the super bowl. last year they didnt even advance past the wild card round. their only win came against san diego who i think were ripe for the taking by anyone in post season due to their immaturity and loser of a post-season coach marty. they were in the playoffs mostly due to playing in a division with 3 other teams mired in rebuilding. all of this tells me theyre a "dynasty" clearly in decline. symbolically, losing the conference final to a team they "owned" like the colts is a very powerful confirmation of this. bills and jets promise to be better next season so pats wont have a cakewalk to the division title again. conclusion: pats will have a tough job filling all their needs and won't be as good next season, continuing their "wrong side" of dynasty trend. again think noll, landry, shula, how invicible they looked at the top and how they went out.
The Big Cat Posted January 23, 2007 Posted January 23, 2007 i started this thread and im sorry to see it degenerate into a pissing contest. but when u break it down it all comes down to one thing: either you believe pats can do no wrong (i.e. you've totally bought into "mystique") or if you believe as i do that they have their fair share of flaws and stumbles and like anyone facing a very difficult need to fill several high profile positions they will stumble some. to all the mystique lovers i'd put forth the following: - if pats are so perfect they don't lose branch and are probably playing in miami in 2 weeks. i consider that a huge blunder; - they made a good move getting seau to press the now useless bruschi (not their fault seau got hurt) but they did nothing to address the high likelihood harrison wouldn't be the same player after total knee reconstruction at 33. another blunder that could have cost them a trip to south florida; - this is the 2nd year in a row theyve failed to make the super bowl. last year they didnt even advance past the wild card round. their only win came against san diego who i think were ripe for the taking by anyone in post season due to their immaturity and loser of a post-season coach marty. they were in the playoffs mostly due to playing in a division with 3 other teams mired in rebuilding. all of this tells me theyre a "dynasty" clearly in decline. symbolically, losing the conference final to a team they "owned" like the colts is a very powerful confirmation of this. bills and jets promise to be better next season so pats wont have a cakewalk to the division title again. conclusion: pats will have a tough job filling all their needs and won't be as good next season, continuing their "wrong side" of dynasty trend. again think noll, landry, shula, how invicible they looked at the top and how they went out. But I still think Tom Brady's a pillow biter.
Stenbar Posted January 23, 2007 Posted January 23, 2007 That's right, you quoted me three times, and I'm glad that each time you found my opinion more and more entertaining. I don't think he's a Peyton Manning, or a Joe Montanna, or Dan Marino, or any other "great Quarterback." I think he's an accurate passer (something EVERY starting NFL QB should be) who plays behind an impenetrable offense line. He has good receivers coming out of the backfield, a very good receiving option in his tight end, and serviceable wide receivers- funny how a monster offensive line can make receivers look great. Tom Brady is just a decent NFL quarterback with GREAT coaching and a very EFFECTIVE supporting cast. This is no personal shot at you just your opinion...The guy has won 2 Super Bowl MVPS ...3 Championships and I think he is just 31...Jim Kelly had an impenetrable offensive line, 2 great wr's a great rb and pretty decent defense yet no superbowls..This guy as much as I hate him is A GREAT NFL QB...End of discussion.,....I will be glad when he goes and retires...Quit downgrading him and just accept him for what he is..Better than most we have seen
Prognastic Posted January 23, 2007 Posted January 23, 2007 i started this thread and im sorry to see it degenerate into a pissing contest. but when u break it down it all comes down to one thing: either you believe pats can do no wrong (i.e. you've totally bought into "mystique") or if you believe as i do that they have their fair share of flaws and stumbles and like anyone facing a very difficult need to fill several high profile positions they will stumble some. to all the mystique lovers i'd put forth the following: - if pats are so perfect they don't lose branch and are probably playing in miami in 2 weeks. i consider that a huge blunder; - they made a good move getting seau to press the now useless bruschi (not their fault seau got hurt) but they did nothing to address the high likelihood harrison wouldn't be the same player after total knee reconstruction at 33. another blunder that could have cost them a trip to south florida; - this is the 2nd year in a row theyve failed to make the super bowl. last year they didnt even advance past the wild card round. their only win came against san diego who i think were ripe for the taking by anyone in post season due to their immaturity and loser of a post-season coach marty. they were in the playoffs mostly due to playing in a division with 3 other teams mired in rebuilding. all of this tells me theyre a "dynasty" clearly in decline. symbolically, losing the conference final to a team they "owned" like the colts is a very powerful confirmation of this. bills and jets promise to be better next season so pats wont have a cakewalk to the division title again. conclusion: pats will have a tough job filling all their needs and won't be as good next season, continuing their "wrong side" of dynasty trend. again think noll, landry, shula, how invicible they looked at the top and how they went out. While Deion Branch was a very good WR for the Pats, how'd he help Seattle get back to the Super Bowl this year? Oh wait.... They do need to address LB and safety in the off-season 2nd year in a row they didnt make the Super Bowl? You say that like its easy to do or something. San Diego was NOT ripe for the taking, they just were ripe on that particular day. Much like the 01 Rams. Keep HOPING that the Pats are in decline however because you have to hang your hat on something to make yourself believe that come August and September that your team has a shot at the playoffs. conclusion; pats will have a tough time filling their needs (as will 31 other teams) and may or may not be as good next season. They are however for the most part getting younger in most areas of the team with the exception of the two listed above and they are pretty much a lock to win between 10-13 games per year during this "Brady-Belichick" run.
JAMIEBUF12 Posted January 23, 2007 Posted January 23, 2007 wow! i hate the patsies as much as anyone,but next season they will still be the afc east champs.....and people seem to forget that they have a ton of money to spend and 2#1 picks in the up coming draft.they still have a pretty good solid core to build off of.i think next season they are a 10-6 team ,maybe not the greatest pats team but they will still be solid.i see the bills and jets in a dog fight for the 2nd top spot.the bills will be improved next year you can take that to the bank.go bills in"07
Prognastic Posted January 23, 2007 Posted January 23, 2007 Want to look at the Pats? Lets look at the Pats and how they're "getting older" shall we? Offensive line; Matt Light Logan Mankins Dan Koppen Stephen Neal Nick Kazcur Ryan O'Callaghan ALL these guys are locked up and have no more than 6 years NFL experience i.e YOUNG Defensive Line Richard Seymour Ty Warren Vince Wilfork Jarvis Green Mike Wright Again, all but Warren locked up long term and again, none over 30. Quarterback; Need I even? Brady will be 30 in August Running backs Laurence Maroney Corey Dillon (if he comes back) Kevin Faulk Patrick Pass Heath Evans. Maroney will be a 2nd year player (and starter) next season. Faulk is entering his 6th or 7th year. Dillon most likely will retire or come back in a Jerome Bettis type 3rd down and short role. Wide Receivers; Chad Jackson Troy Brown Jabar Gaffney Reche Caldwell This area needs addressing despite Caldwell's and Gaffney's solid play this post season. Troy Brown may hang them up as well. Tight Ends Benjamin Watson Daniel Graham David Thomas Graham is a FA but my feeling is that he comes back. All are sub-30 Linebackers; Tedy Bruschi - 10 year vet 34 yrs old Rosevelt Colvin - 30 years old Mike Vrabel - 32 years old Tully Banta-Cain - 27 Junior Seau? - 3 years older than dirt Secondary (assuming Samuel comes back) Ellis Hobbs Asante Samuel Randall Gay Eugene Wilson Rodney Harrison Artrelle Hawkins James Sanders Harrison is 35 and now injury prone. Wilson has had a rash of injuries as well but is only 27. Sanders and Hawkins got some very valuable starting experience this year at Safety. Throw in the rookie kicker and there are only about 3 areas that need some sort of upgrades with Linebacker being the most important. They'll be dominant in the AFC East at the very least while Belichick and Brady are on the team and maybe longer provided they continue to embrace their current philosophy. I can see them franchising Asante Samuel if a deal cannot be reached; I can see them using a lot of their cap room to go after a Lance Briggs I can also see them addressing LB/Safety and even WR in the draft. They have 2 #1's and rarely miss on first rounders; (Seymour, Wilfork, Warren, Watson, Graham, Maroney, Mankins) Sorry folks but the forecast in Buffalo calls for gloom and doom for the forseeable future. Looks to me like the Pats are getting younger
truth on hold Posted January 24, 2007 Author Posted January 24, 2007 Want to look at the Pats? Lets look at the Pats and how they're "getting older" shall we?Offensive line; Matt Light Logan Mankins Dan Koppen Stephen Neal Nick Kazcur Ryan O'Callaghan ALL these guys are locked up and have no more than 6 years NFL experience i.e YOUNG Defensive Line Richard Seymour Ty Warren Vince Wilfork Jarvis Green Mike Wright Again, all but Warren locked up long term and again, none over 30. Quarterback; Need I even? Brady will be 30 in August Running backs Laurence Maroney Corey Dillon (if he comes back) Kevin Faulk Patrick Pass Heath Evans. Maroney will be a 2nd year player (and starter) next season. Faulk is entering his 6th or 7th year. Dillon most likely will retire or come back in a Jerome Bettis type 3rd down and short role. Wide Receivers; Chad Jackson Troy Brown Jabar Gaffney Reche Caldwell This area needs addressing despite Caldwell's and Gaffney's solid play this post season. Troy Brown may hang them up as well. Tight Ends Benjamin Watson Daniel Graham David Thomas Graham is a FA but my feeling is that he comes back. All are sub-30 Linebackers; Tedy Bruschi - 10 year vet 34 yrs old Rosevelt Colvin - 30 years old Mike Vrabel - 32 years old Tully Banta-Cain - 27 Junior Seau? - 3 years older than dirt Secondary (assuming Samuel comes back) Ellis Hobbs Asante Samuel Randall Gay Eugene Wilson Rodney Harrison Artrelle Hawkins James Sanders Harrison is 35 and now injury prone. Wilson has had a rash of injuries as well but is only 27. Sanders and Hawkins got some very valuable starting experience this year at Safety. Throw in the rookie kicker and there are only about 3 areas that need some sort of upgrades with Linebacker being the most important. They'll be dominant in the AFC East at the very least while Belichick and Brady are on the team and maybe longer provided they continue to embrace their current philosophy. I can see them franchising Asante Samuel if a deal cannot be reached; I can see them using a lot of their cap room to go after a Lance Briggs I can also see them addressing LB/Safety and even WR in the draft. They have 2 #1's and rarely miss on first rounders; (Seymour, Wilfork, Warren, Watson, Graham, Maroney, Mankins) Sorry folks but the forecast in Buffalo calls for gloom and doom for the forseeable future. Looks to me like the Pats are getting younger older? who said anything about pats as a team getting older? pats have some youth but then again some of the youngest teams in the league are raiders, lions and cardinals. i said they have needs to fill at a healthy 4 if not 5 key positions as follows: MLB: bruschi, please do us all a huge favor bill & bob and keep this guy RB: maroney doesnt look like #1 RB material to me. you know in their 1st year if they are or not. the guy had 13 yards on 8 carries against colts, 5 yards on 5 carries against chargers when he's needed most. give me a break about him being the future WR: brady cried like tony romo when branch left. are you telling me you know his importance (lack there of) better than your mr. everything brady? SS: harrison was the best player at his position in the league and a huge part of the pats success in SBs 2 & 3. bill knew this when he risked alienating team by favoring harrison over milloy. i think you are extraordinarily optimistic if you think replacing with him with same caliber will be easy, and i'd love to know who you are thinking of so i can pass this info onto the bills. even though they have whitner id take the 2nd coming of harrison DB: asante samuel said the pats contract offer was an insult. he said hes looking forward to free agency so he can get the most money. franchise him and theres a decent chance he sits out. odds pats keep him 50/50 at best. if pats fill all those needs next season then i will gladly eat my words about doubting them. but something tells me - history that is - that my plate won't have any words on it next year at this time.
Mikie2times Posted January 24, 2007 Posted January 24, 2007 i started this thread and im sorry to see it degenerate into a pissing contest. but when u break it down it all comes down to one thing: either you believe pats can do no wrong (i.e. you've totally bought into "mystique") or if you believe as i do that they have their fair share of flaws and stumbles and like anyone facing a very difficult need to fill several high profile positions they will stumble some. to all the mystique lovers i'd put forth the following: - if pats are so perfect they don't lose branch and are probably playing in miami in 2 weeks. i consider that a huge blunder; - they made a good move getting seau to press the now useless bruschi (not their fault seau got hurt) but they did nothing to address the high likelihood harrison wouldn't be the same player after total knee reconstruction at 33. another blunder that could have cost them a trip to south florida; - this is the 2nd year in a row theyve failed to make the super bowl. last year they didnt even advance past the wild card round. their only win came against san diego who i think were ripe for the taking by anyone in post season due to their immaturity and loser of a post-season coach marty. they were in the playoffs mostly due to playing in a division with 3 other teams mired in rebuilding. all of this tells me theyre a "dynasty" clearly in decline. symbolically, losing the conference final to a team they "owned" like the colts is a very powerful confirmation of this. bills and jets promise to be better next season so pats wont have a cakewalk to the division title again. conclusion: pats will have a tough job filling all their needs and won't be as good next season, continuing their "wrong side" of dynasty trend. again think noll, landry, shula, how invicible they looked at the top and how they went out. Even with the losses the Patriots look like the Hoover dam compared to the Bills, Jets, and Dolphins. Tom Brady has proven year in and year out that he's a top 3 QB. BB has shown year in and year out he's going to field competitive defenses. The things your saying could have been said after every year the Patriots won the Super Bowl or went to the playoffs. Each year they've lost dozens of players and coaches, and during almost all of they're runs they've done it while being completely decimated at OL or DB or RB or WR. The lesson shouldn't be that some mystique is magically allowing them to do these things. It's that having a top 3 QB and a decent defense will give you 10 wins in a league of parity.
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