What can you get for Willis?

[inkman]

Ok Not Plaxico - how about Willis to Detroit for Mike Williams and a 5th rounder- or is Mike too elite lol.

Could you find a player in the league who has proven less? He has shown potential but that so did his namesake.

[Rubes]

hes proven as much as henry did when we got an early 3rd for him.

 

Oh really? Please tell me how Willis has proven as much as Henry.

 

The unrealistic expectations of this board are nuts. Of course, that just leads to angst about how bad Marv is when he doesn't get what everybody else thinks is Willis's true value.

[DrDawkinstein]

Oh really? Please tell me how Willis has proven as much as Henry.

 

The unrealistic expectations of this board are nuts. Of course, that just leads to angst about how bad Marv is when he doesn't get what everybody else thinks is Willis's true value.

 

 

whooooa, take a breath. my point was that neither of them really proved much as far as league leaders go. 4 years into each career, all that was proven for both is that theyre both capable of 1200 yard seasons but you may get 900 yards from them too...

 

oh yeah, heres how willis has proven as much as henry at this point in his career:

 

Travis Henry

YEAR TEAM G ATT YDS AVG TD

2001 BUF 13 213 729 3.4 4

2002 BUF 16 325 1438 4.4 13

2003 BUF 15 331 1356 4.1 10

 

Willis McGahee

EAR TEAM G ATT YDS AVG TD

2004 BUF 16 284 1128 4.0 13

2005 BUF 16 325 1247 3.8 5

2006 BUF 14 259 990 3.8 6

 

you can split hairs over a couple hundred total yards, but theyre the same back basically

[billybob]

1.Some might say Willis is running behind a crap O-line especial when it comes to run blocking - 2. If Willis had not got his Ribs broken he'd probably gotten around 1200 yards which would have put him around 12th for RBs - now I'm for trading Willis because I want a more versatile back and think we could draft Mashawn Lynch at 12 but Willis isn't garbage and Plaxico isn't gold.

[billybob]

If he didn't have a stiff trying to get him the ball, I would like to think his numbers would be a little better. Mike Furrey finished 14th. These numbers don't mean a lot. Burress also finished with 10 TD's and a 15.7 ypc, both near the top of the league. Numbers can be manipulated to make a player look how you want. I've watched Burress, and I've watched Willis and only one of them is a gamebreaker.

 

 

Could you find a player in the league who has proven less? He has shown potential but that so did his namesake.

Plaxico too Hot Mike Williams too cold- I'll try to find you a trade that's just right Goldilocks

[DrDawkinstein]

1.Some might say Willis is running behind a crap O-line especial when it comes to run blocking - 2. If Willis had not got his Ribs broken he'd probably gotten around 1200 yards which would have put him around 12th for RBs - now I'm for trading Willis because I want a more versatile back and think we could draft Mashawn Lynch at 12 but Willis isn't garbage and Plaxico isn't gold.

 

 

no way lynch is there at 12, even if he is, im not sold on him. someone who has heard how good he is for so long, we may just be drafting another bad attitude. BUT i do agree that we could find a more than suitable replacement in the draft.

[Sketch Soland]

It is ironic in general that the "Willis is sh*t" crowd are also the ones to grossly overestimate his trade value. Willis' NFL performance so far has been neither sh*t nor that of a top flight RB; he is somewhere in the middle based upon his performance, which the potential to be much better if he finds a way to perform consistently (perhaps on a team with a more consistent offense and especially an OL). Then again, he could just continue to be just decent enough to always spark heated debate. All in all, we would be extremely, extremely lucky to snag a day one draft pick for him. This is the reality of the situation as I see it.

[inkman]

Plaxico too Hot Mike Williams too cold- I'll try to find you a trade that's just right Goldilocks

I wish I had locks...

[The Tomcat]

Michael Turner from the SD chargers, and they also get our 4th rounder.

 

Why would the Chargers want Willis when they've got LT?

Willis may not be God, but I don't think he's a backup.....is he?

 

Also, that would put us in a spot...no 4th or 5th round pick next year....however, Marv would trade down 2-3 spots, get a 4th and still get the LB I want...PATRICK WILLIS

[TC in St. Louis]

I'm torn about Willis. We all know what kind of player he has been. Who knows how he would be when our offense finally hits full stride? With solid line play, vastly improved JP, 3 healthy wideouts and a functioning Tight End, maybe Willis could hit 1500 yards.

 

I don't think that he's in a position of strength for renegotiation, unless he wants to sign something filled with incentives. I think Marv will do the right thing.

 

I'm not sure any GM in the league would give up anything higher than a 4th rounder for Willis.

[Pyrite Gal]

Why would the Chargers want Willis when they've got LT?

Willis may not be God, but I don't think he's a backup.....is he?

 

Also, that would put us in a spot...no 4th or 5th round pick next year....however, Marv would trade down 2-3 spots, get a 4th and still get the LB I want...PATRICK WILLIS

 

Willis looks like a very good player and this Butkus award winner is likely to be a fixture at MLB whereever he goes for a number of years.

 

However, he seems like a choice if made by the Bills which would need us to find a significant number of ways to compensate for the things we will lose from F-B leaving as our starting MLB and if we specifically replace our MLB with a rookie draft pick (even a good one) we will have to find these compensations elsewhere.

 

If we decide to draft an LB with the #12 pick, it would seem like getting an OLB to replace Crowell and then shifting Crowell to his drafted and initially trained for MLB slot would be a far better strategy for getting wins in 07 than training Willis to play there by having him go through the growing pains of learning to be an NFL vet at this centerpiece of the Tampa 2 version of the Cover 2 we run.

 

I'm not arguing that F-B is by any means the greatest LB in the NFL as his shortcomings are fairly clear. However, most posts in trying to badmouth these shortcomings and justify trying to get a run plugger at MLB have simply pretended that F-B is a slow do nothing stiff rather than the reality that he actually has accomplished quite a few measureable impressive things this season and in his career. I'm not saying his is the best but it is simply silly for some to claim he can do nothing and that we will need to replace some real benefits when/if we lose him.

 

In particular, so many of those good things Fletch brings to the table are related to the skills he has gained from a decade worth of seeing NFL plays that simply there is no way a rookie can replace them. Again, I am not arguing that no rookie can start at MLB in the NFL, I am simply saying that if we start a rookie we need to be prepared for this D likely taking a step back in its production while the rookies learns the game.

 

I simply do not see Ralph and Marv who while there are no plans for them to die next week they simply cannot be on a schedule where they choose to go through yet another learning experience for a central player on the D.

 

Some of this compensating action will come from other players. For example, I do not think anyone seriously expects the rookie Willis to immediately master the D and be able to take on the traditional role of the MLB as signal caller for the D.

 

I think this is particularly true because of the crucial role which the MLB plays as a deep cover guy on passing downs in our Cover 2 as the MLB divides the field in 3 with the safeties (in fact part of the reason that F-B led all NFL LBs in INTs and actually led the Bills in INTs beating out both CBs who really play short zone press coverage in the Cover 2 and as a result simply are called upon less to have INT oportunities in the D the way we run it than the MLB is.

 

One way or the other when/if F-B goes we will need to find either from newly acquired or current Bills players:

 

1. Someone with enough NFL experience and success to be our D capt.

2. Someone who has seen enough NFL plays they can quickly read and diagnose whether the 3rd down play is a run or pass and he should cover or pinch in.

3. A ballhawk with the ballhandling skills Fletch showed which not only led to his good INT #s but us comfortably using him as a short kickoff return guy

4. Someone else capable of leading the team and NFL LBs in INTs.

 

It would seem like a strategy much more likely to produce a better production from our D next year to try to replace the loss of F-B by spending what is likely to be some significant bucks on a WLB like Lance Briggs from Chi and then moving Crowell to MLB. With TKO at the other LB spot (assuming he continues to recover though I don't think he will ever be as good as he was) we definitely would have one of the best LB corps in the NFL and it will take a couple of years for this to happen if we relied on drafting Willis to do this.

 

If one wants an analogy, think of the painful process we went through as the very gifted and talented JP Losman went through a process learning to be the central player on the O. My guess is that we would have the LB version of this experience with Willis as our MLB starter.

[The Tomcat]

Willis looks like a very good player and this Butkus award winner is likely to be a fixture at MLB whereever he goes for a number of years.

 

However, he seems like a choice if made by the Bills which would need us to find a significant number of ways to compensate for the things we will lose from F-B leaving as our starting MLB and if we specifically replace our MLB with a rookie draft pick (even a good one) we will have to find these compensations elsewhere.

 

If we decide to draft an LB with the #12 pick, it would seem like getting an OLB to replace Crowell and then shifting Crowell to his drafted and initially trained for MLB slot would be a far better strategy for getting wins in 07 than training Willis to play there by having him go through the growing pains of learning to be an NFL vet at this centerpiece of the Tampa 2 version of the Cover 2 we run.

 

I'm not arguing that F-B is by any means the greatest LB in the NFL as his shortcomings are fairly clear. However, most posts in trying to badmouth these shortcomings and justify trying to get a run plugger at MLB have simply pretended that F-B is a slow do nothing stiff rather than the reality that he actually has accomplished quite a few measureable impressive things this season and in his career. I'm not saying his is the best but it is simply silly for some to claim he can do nothing and that we will need to replace some real benefits when/if we lose him.

 

In particular, so many of those good things Fletch brings to the table are related to the skills he has gained from a decade worth of seeing NFL plays that simply there is no way a rookie can replace them. Again, I am not arguing that no rookie can start at MLB in the NFL, I am simply saying that if we start a rookie we need to be prepared for this D likely taking a step back in its production while the rookies learns the game.

 

I simply do not see Ralph and Marv who while there are no plans for them to die next week they simply cannot be on a schedule where they choose to go through yet another learning experience for a central player on the D.

 

Some of this compensating action will come from other players. For example, I do not think anyone seriously expects the rookie Willis to immediately master the D and be able to take on the traditional role of the MLB as signal caller for the D.

 

I think this is particularly true because of the crucial role which the MLB plays as a deep cover guy on passing downs in our Cover 2 as the MLB divides the field in 3 with the safeties (in fact part of the reason that F-B led all NFL LBs in INTs and actually led the Bills in INTs beating out both CBs who really play short zone press coverage in the Cover 2 and as a result simply are called upon less to have INT oportunities in the D the way we run it than the MLB is.

 

One way or the other when/if F-B goes we will need to find either from newly acquired or current Bills players:

 

1. Someone with enough NFL experience and success to be our D capt.

2. Someone who has seen enough NFL plays they can quickly read and diagnose whether the 3rd down play is a run or pass and he should cover or pinch in.

3. A ballhawk with the ballhandling skills Fletch showed which not only led to his good INT #s but us comfortably using him as a short kickoff return guy

4. Someone else capable of leading the team and NFL LBs in INTs.

 

It would seem like a strategy much more likely to produce a better production from our D next year to try to replace the loss of F-B by spending what is likely to be some significant bucks on a WLB like Lance Briggs from Chi and then moving Crowell to MLB. With TKO at the other LB spot (assuming he continues to recover though I don't think he will ever be as good as he was) we definitely would have one of the best LB corps in the NFL and it will take a couple of years for this to happen if we relied on drafting Willis to do this.

 

If one wants an analogy, think of the painful process we went through as the very gifted and talented JP Losman went through a process learning to be the central player on the O. My guess is that we would have the LB version of this experience with Willis as our MLB starter.

 

 

Agree with most if not all you said. One thing for sure, as Spikes has stated, the defense COULD look a lot different next year. Although its POSSIBLE the D looks almost exactly the same....I hope for the latter...

[Ozymandius]

Trading Willis would be a silly mistake. We can't get that much for him right now AND he's about to have the best season of his career because it's a contract year. I want the Bills to ride him during his contract year and then not re-sign him because he'll go back to being lazy. We can draft a starting RB in the 2008 draft. No big deal.

[The Tomcat]

Trading Willis would be a silly mistake. We can't get that much for him right now AND he's about to have the best season of his career because it's a contract year. I want the Bills to ride him during his contract year and then not re-sign him because he'll go back to being lazy. We can draft a starting RB in the 2008 draft. No big deal.

 

I see a hold out if he doesn't get an extension or traded.....

[Ozymandius]

I see a hold out if he doesn't get an extension or traded.....

 

The Bills have all the leverage... he'll play next season and he'll play well.