ieatcrayonz Posted January 14, 2007 Posted January 14, 2007 The NCAA is messing around in politics again. They are on the verge of banning all postseason play for college sports in South Carolina.
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 14, 2007 Posted January 14, 2007 Why would they ban the games in South Carolina?... The SC state flag is field of blue with crescent moon and palmetto palm... Right? What does the Confederate flag have to do with this state that others (states or schools) aren't doing?
molson_golden2002 Posted January 14, 2007 Posted January 14, 2007 http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/200...rate-flag_x.htm COLUMBIA, S.C. — The NCAA will consider expanding its ban of championship events in South Carolina, possibly disallowing baseball and football teams from hosting postseason games, because the Confederate flag is displayed on Statehouse grounds. Robert Vowels Jr., head of the NCAA's Minority Opportunities and Interest Committee, said his group received a request from the Black Coaches Association about widening the ban. Predetermined postseason events, such as basketball regionals and cross-country championships — are now barred from South Carolina sites. "I think it's something worth looking at," said Vowels, commissioner of the Southwestern Athletic Conference. The NAACP started an economic boycott of South Carolina in 2000 because the Confederate flag flew over the Capitol dome. The Legislature voted that spring to move the flag to the Confederate monument in front of the Statehouse. However, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People has continued its boycott, saying the legislative action did not go far enough. In 2001, the NCAA announced a two-year moratorium on awarding predetermined postseason events to the state. The governing body has continued the ban indefinitely, saying in 2004 that significant change on the issue had not taken place in South Carolina. Floyd Keith, executive director of the Black Coaches Association, said he received a request from members about furthering action against the state and closing what he saw as a loophole. "I don't know that anybody is comfortable playing in a place where they fly the Confederate flag," he said by telephone Tuesday. A subcommittee will study the question before bringing any recommendations to the full panel, Vowels said. He expects the process to take several months. Messages left at the office of South Carolina House Speaker Bobby Harrell, R-Charleston, were not immediately returned. Furman's football team has held Division I-AA playoff games at Paladin Stadium in five of the past seven seasons. Clemson's baseball team hosted NCAA tournament games nine times since 1994. South Carolina's Sarge Frye Field was a host site for the tournament each season between 2000-2004. "If the legislation goes through to change the interpretation, more people are going to be affected," Furman athletic director Gary Clark said. The NAACP has marched and protested outside several sports events since the ban, including the 2002 NCAA basketball regional at the Bi-Lo Center in Greenville, the WTA's Family Circle Cup in Charleston and the PGA Tour's Verizon Heritage in Hilton Head.
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 14, 2007 Posted January 14, 2007 Why do they fly the Confederate flag when that is not the official state flag? And has the Confederate flag been flying since the Civil War in the Palmetto State?... What are the facts that it is there?
molson_golden2002 Posted January 14, 2007 Posted January 14, 2007 Why do they fly the Confederate flag when that is not the official state flag? And has the Confederate flag been flying since the Civil War in the Palmetto State?... What are the facts that it is there? 1) Depends who you ask. Red Necks will say its about Heritage, and Blacks will say its about heritage alright, Jim Crow heritage 2) I believe but am not sure that the flag was brought out during the early Civil Rights movement, but other symbols of hate, like 'Pitchfork' Ben Tillman's bust in the statehouse have been there longer. 3) Dunno
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 14, 2007 Posted January 14, 2007 1) Depends who you ask. Red Necks will say its about Heritage, and Blacks will say its about heritage alright, Jim Crow heritage 2) I believe but am not sure that the flag was brought out during the early Civil Rights movement, but other symbols of hate, like 'Pitchfork' Ben Tillman's bust in the statehouse have been there longer. 3) Dunno Thanks! That's what I was getting at... If the battle flag came out as a way to piss people off... Why shouldn't the NCAA not be able to piss S. Carolina off? As long as no gov't mandate makes them remove it I am fine... Economic sanctions are fair game in this country if you don't like something and has nothing to do with "free speech." You don't like something? Don't float your business their way...
mcjeff215 Posted January 15, 2007 Posted January 15, 2007 1) Depends who you ask. Red Necks will say its about Heritage, and Blacks will say its about heritage alright, Jim Crow heritage 2) I believe but am not sure that the flag was brought out during the early Civil Rights movement, but other symbols of hate, like 'Pitchfork' Ben Tillman's bust in the statehouse have been there longer. 3) Dunno I know that's the case with the GA state flag. We get to have this same argument here every couple of years. All of the Red Neck types want to bring it back because of their "heritage" while the other side wants it done away with. The flag that the Red Neck types want was actually introduced in the 1950's here in GA as a protest against desegregation. On every election day for the past four/five years, we've had "let us choose our flag!" signs on confederate-flag backgrounds lining the expressway, placed their during the night prior by some mystery gang of sign bandits. I see people flying that thing high and proud at least once a week, back of trucks, license plates, shirts, etc. I'd believe it was heritage if it wasn't on display next to the "happiness is a Yankee going home" sign. Well buddy, I can't wait to make your day. Do they still fly that thing on government buildings? I thought they finally left the 1800's a couple of years back? At any rate, I agree with it. Hit 'em in the pocketbook. -Jeff
Beerball Posted January 15, 2007 Posted January 15, 2007 I doubt if the confederate flag will be taken down any time soon. There are still alot of people who are very passionate about it. The NAACP already has a boycott against the state, which has had no impact on the economy. Likewise, an NCAA boycott will only hurt the kids, not anybody else. How about they ban bowl games in Florida. Isn't the Seminoles name offensive to Native Americans? Political correctness has no place in sports. First, I think you paint with a brush that's too wide. The confederate flag is as offensive as the nazi symbol (and I'm not saying you agree with either). As others have stated, it was brought back into vogue as a way of showing displeasure with desegregation. While that reason may have subsided over the years it is still the reason you see it today. This is about the only issue that I can say with 100% conviction that I stand in agreement with the NCAA. You mention Florida--FWIW the Seminole tribe has let the NCAA know that they are in agreement with Fla State. I think that if a specific tribe is mentioned and that tribe has no issues, then OK. Up until 3-4 years ago a nearby highschool was known as the fighting coons. Is that OK?
mcjeff215 Posted January 15, 2007 Posted January 15, 2007 First, I think you paint with a brush that's too wide. The confederate flag is as offensive as the nazi symbol (and I'm not saying you agree with either). As others have stated, it was brought back into vogue as a way of showing displeasure with desegregation. While that reason may have subsided over the years it is still the reason you see it today. This is about the only issue that I can say with 100% conviction that I stand in agreement with the NCAA. You mention Florida--FWIW the Seminole tribe has let the NCAA know that they are in agreement with Fla State. I think that if a specific tribe is mentioned and that tribe has no issues, then OK. Up until 3-4 years ago a nearby highschool was known as the fighting coons. Is that OK? I agree 100% an often draw that same parallel myself, between the Swastika and the confederate flag.
mcjeff215 Posted January 16, 2007 Posted January 16, 2007 I don't particularly understand the whole southern pride thing. I grew up in Western, NY where there is no heritage and nobody is proud to be from there. Just because a special interest group wants the flag taken down, doesn't mean we should do it. I see kids driving around in their trucks, flying the conferdate flag, and listening to hip hop. When the NAACP can explain that to me, they can take down the flags, the religious symbols, and pass the gay marriage law that got shot down last election. Honestly, I'm damn proud to be from WNY. I've had this flag argument 1000 times. Political correctness crap aside, there are still a lot of biggoted idiots around down here. Once or twice a year I head to a central Georgia hunting camp with my father in law. I'll tell you what, it's like living back in the 60's. I'm not very easily offended and *I* feel out of place. I like the South in general, but there ought to be no room for stuff like that. There's still a lot of "Old South' around and the government backed flying of that flag trivializes it. No one can make individuals pull it down (I wouldn't WANT to make individuals pull it down; that's just not right), but I don't see it as something that should be on display officially, in any capacity. -Jeff
RayFinkle Posted January 16, 2007 Posted January 16, 2007 Honestly, I'm damn proud to be from WNY. I've had this flag argument 1000 times. Political correctness crap aside, there are still a lot of biggoted idiots around down here. Once or twice a year I head to a central Georgia hunting camp with my father in law. I'll tell you what, it's like living back in the 60's. I'm not very easily offended and *I* feel out of place. I like the South in general, but there ought to be no room for stuff like that. There's still a lot of "Old South' around and the government backed flying of that flag trivializes it. No one can make individuals pull it down (I wouldn't WANT to make individuals pull it down; that's just not right), but I don't see it as something that should be on display officially, in any capacity. -Jeff you sure got a purty mouth...
dib Posted January 16, 2007 Posted January 16, 2007 Uh Oh we're next, the Florida state flag is reminiscent of the stars and bars
Beerball Posted January 16, 2007 Posted January 16, 2007 Uh Oh we're next, the Florida state flag is reminiscent of the stars and bars I thought Florida's flag was a marajuana leaf on a coke background?
Spun Posted January 16, 2007 Posted January 16, 2007 I don't particularly understand the whole southern pride thing. I grew up in Western, NY where there is no heritage and nobody is proud to be from there. Just because a special interest group wants the flag taken down, doesn't mean we should do it. I see kids driving around in their trucks, flying the conferdate flag, and listening to hip hop. When the NAACP can explain that to me, they can take down the flags, the religious symbols, and pass the gay marriage law that got shot down last election. Ditto for the WNY pride. There are a lot of cool things about the area. As for some heritage, visit the Buffalo Historical Society. Buffalo's history is actually very interesting. The Native Americans, the earliest Euros (French, English, Dutch), the waves of immigrants that followed, the planning of the city parks and streets (Olmsted and Ellicott), the proximity to Canada, the Falls etc., all offer some interesting stories. The Bills and Sabres are part of that heritage. http://www.bechs.org/ Bigotry is still alive in South Carolina along with too many other places in the United States. It is such a wasted energy and it is pretty bad that people take such a careless attitude when dumping the problem of hatred on succeeding generations. This country (US) can do much better. And by the way, there are a lot of people in the North who can learn a thing or two from people in the South about coexisting with people of other races. Make it better, the kids are watching and listening. I don't care for hip hop but why should the NAACP have to explain the how and why of who listens to hip hop? To me hip hop is just the current day's disco. I do wonder why any of us listen to and adore some of the music that seems to glorify crime in the blighted cities. I would think that as a nation we should be asking why we are having kids we can neither afford nor spend time with. And as parents (the first teachers), why aren't we doing a better job turning our kids on to reading and libraries!
molson_golden2002 Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 I don't particularly understand the whole southern pride thing. I grew up in Western, NY where there is no heritage and nobody is proud to be from there. Just because a special interest group wants the flag taken down, doesn't mean we should do it. I see kids driving around in their trucks, flying the conferdate flag, and listening to hip hop. When the NAACP can explain that to me, they can take down the flags, the religious symbols, and pass the gay marriage law that got shot down last election. One thing that is really different is demographics. WNY had a huge role in the Civil War, in many ways. Yet we won so its easier to let bygones be bygones. More importantly, immigrants poured into WNY AFTER the war who had no stake in it at all. Buffalo only had about 100,000 by the time the war was over, and many people moved on. But in the South many more people today are direct decendants of Civil War soldiers. The units are still remembered, as are the battles that in many cases were fought locally. And then there is the race issue which caused the war--yes, slavery caused the civil war--and they are still dealing with that.
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