"Trusting" Marv

[CFLstyle]

Marv had a very good draft last year. Unlike Donahoe, I trust him to not do anything completely jackass.

I actually found Tom Donahoe very reliable on draft day, he found a lot of good Talent. The only real miss he had was on Mike Williams and ANY GM would have made the same mistake, in fact if he didn't draft Mike Williams he would have been flamed on draft day.

 

Donahoe's biggest down fall in my opinon was his inability to hire a coach, he misfired on every attempt.

[The Jokeman]

I actually found Tom Donahoe very reliable on draft day, he found a lot of good Talent. The only real miss he had was on Mike Williams and ANY GM would have made the same mistake, in fact if he didn't draft Mike Williams he would have been flamed on draft day.

 

Donahoe's biggest down fall in my opinon was his inability to hire a coach, he misfired on every attempt.

I truely think Donahoe all along wanted Marvin Lewis, that's why he he waited until after the Super Bowl to name his head coach. Yet I think Lewis failed him in either in the interview process and/or his wife commenting not wanting to move here due to the school situation. As a result think he went with Williams. In terms of Mularkey, it looked like a wise decision after his first year but he rightfully struggled his second year but feel foolishly was too worried about his job security and that's why went with Kelly Holcomb instead of taking the time to let JP develop. That all said it looks like Levy and Jauron might be a better combination to get this team back in the playoffs but only time will tell as have learned not to judge a GM/coach/players based on their first years.

[The Big Cat]

Yeah, but I think you are totally wrong. First day picks obviously come first. In this draft that you charcaterize as "AWESOME," our earliest and most valueable resources went toward taking a safety who looks pretty good, a DT with a history of injury who is injured once again, and a corner who didn't crack the lineup. Again, I remind you that we entered day 1 with 4 early picks in 3 rounds. This is not awesome. It borders on disaster.

We followed up this horror show with another safety in the fourth; this after signing a UFA corner and safety. You may find this to be awesome, which is great. I think that it is idiocy and to add insult to injury, we will more than likely draft a 1st round corner this year, even if several are drafted before we select.

 

The Bills DID improve this season, but it was primarily because of Lee Evans, JP, Jason Peters and the coaching. I liked day 2 of the draft, and hope that Pennington can develop into a good RT. We need this.

The thing is, Marv needs to put on his thinking cap, and remember that other positions matter more than the secondary, especially when talking of a team that plays outdorors, in the cold.

 

Okay, I see your point and I won't disagree with you. But (and I'm resorting to the default cop-out here) one year after the draft is still too early to gauge it's success. To refer to any moves made last year as "idiocy" might be a bit much if and when Donte, Ko, Ashton, and McCargo are all defensive playmakers (in a perfect world).

 

Additionally, I understand your DB frustration, but with a corps which received a complete overhaul this season (after flushing Milloy and Vincent) and which is currently learning a new defensive scheme which demands perfection, I have patience with the coaching staff wanting to bring in raw, moldable players to plug in to a system which is undergoing periods of evolution similar to those experienced by the youngins comprising it.

 

So, my optimism, and the fact that I elected to use the word "AWESOME" in all caps is based on the fact that so far none of the drafts have proven negative. If McCargo is continually wraught with injury and Youboty never comes around, then yes, words like "disaster" and "idiocy" may become appropriate. Until then I'm riding the SS Optimistic and loving the view!

[Rico]

McCargo- IMHO, the jury is still out on this guy and when I looked into him after we drafted him, I was a bit dissapointed to hear he was regularly set back with a foot injury in college...we'll have to see, but at this point he hasn't done anything him to warrant him a "bust" of any kind.

Exactly, he hasn't done a damn thing... and until he actually does something in this league, all signs currently point to him being a major bust, especially considering we burned two Day 1 picks in a deep draft to get him. Good thing is it's still very early & he's still got time to turn things around... and I hope he does, but right now I have zero expectations that he will.

 

Throw the whole McCargo deal out of the mix, & I'm pretty happy with the 2006 draft as it looks now, including the Youboty pick (still think he was a 3rd-round steal) and the Whitner pick (would've preferred going in a different direction at #8, but I like Donte too). Day 2 kicked ass, great job... as a result I'd keep Modrak for another year, though John Guy can still leave anytime AFAIC.

[Mike formerly from Florida]

Yeah, but I think you are totally wrong. First day picks obviously come first. In this draft that you charcaterize as "AWESOME," our earliest and most valueable resources went toward taking a safety who looks pretty good, a DT with a history of injury who is injured once again, and a corner who didn't crack the lineup. Again, I remind you that we entered day 1 with 4 early picks in 3 rounds. This is not awesome. It borders on disaster.

We followed up this horror show with another safety in the fourth; this after signing a UFA corner and safety. You may find this to be awesome, which is great. I think that it is idiocy and to add insult to injury, we will more than likely draft a 1st round corner this year, even if several are drafted before we select.

 

The Bills DID improve this season, but it was primarily because of Lee Evans, JP, Jason Peters and the coaching. I liked day 2 of the draft, and hope that Pennington can develop into a good RT. We need this.

The thing is, Marv needs to put on his thinking cap, and remember that other positions matter more than the secondary, especially when talking of a team that plays outdorors, in the cold.

 

 

Bill, you need to make a "paradigm shift" and get off this nasty "hate the 2006 draft" syndrome. It was a near great draft--maybe did not address all the needs as you have so eloquently stated enough times to make my eardrums burst--but, the players picked mostly worked out, and have a chance to be very good players of which some already are.

 

Marv did draft two DL-one who started and looked damn good, three OL-one who started who looked damn good, what else do you want?We might have a sleeper CB who unfortunately didn't get a chance to play (no fault of his) and will replace Clements adequately in two years. OK, so I agree, we should have went Ngata over Whitner. But you have to admit, Whitner will be a very, very good player next year (you know he will improve in his second year) and we'll be even more happier with this draft. So, now this year will be the one we concentrate on our true weaknesse--the INTERIOR lines and a middle linebacker. So, don't take this post personally, just trying to improve your quality of life by convincing you to relax on Marv and Modrak (sp?) and enjoy these young players as they mature.

[apuszczalowski]

Yeah, but I think you are totally wrong. First day picks obviously come first. In this draft that you charcaterize as "AWESOME," our earliest and most valueable resources went toward taking a safety who looks pretty good, a DT with a history of injury who is injured once again, and a corner who didn't crack the lineup. Again, I remind you that we entered day 1 with 4 early picks in 3 rounds. This is not awesome. It borders on disaster.

We followed up this horror show with another safety in the fourth; this after signing a UFA corner and safety. You may find this to be awesome, which is great. I think that it is idiocy and to add insult to injury, we will more than likely draft a 1st round corner this year, even if several are drafted before we select.

 

The Bills DID improve this season, but it was primarily because of Lee Evans, JP, Jason Peters and the coaching. I liked day 2 of the draft, and hope that Pennington can develop into a good RT. We need this.

The thing is, Marv needs to put on his thinking cap, and remember that other positions matter more than the secondary, especially when talking of a team that plays outdorors, in the cold.

Awesome, no

Disaster, not in the least

 

It was good, just not awesome (after only one year of evaluation) The Day 2 picks look better because they are usually PS guys and scrubs, but Marv brought in starters. Day one may turn out being just as good depending on Youbouty, and if McCargo can stay healthy.

 

A disaster would have been Marv pulling a Redskins and dealing away all of our picks on a couple mediocre players, or drafting a punter, QB, and more tiny receivers on day 1. That would have been a disaster.

 

Things are coming around, and looking brighter in Orchard Park. Give them more then one draft to show us what kind of "patterns" they have drafting and what kind of GM Marv is. When even Ralph is saying the lines need work, I think its obvious Marv and Dick see that and that will be what they are looking at. The Secondary is an important part of the 'Cover 2' scheme so thats why Marv went nuts with the DB's. Hopefully he has filled that need already (except for 1 if Clements is a Redskin next season) and will move on to another position to focus on, which IMO is probably going to be the D-Line. They know they can't stop the run and have seen its a bigger problem then having a superb offence (like Polian has in Indy) so I see them focusing in on DT's and DL's and maybe a couple more guys for the offence.

 

It takes time to completly rebuild a team like Marv was left with (you can't argue that almost every position needed upgrading when he took over) and one offseason isn't going to turn everything around.

 

So on draft day this year, don't freak out because Marv made a choice you didn't think of, sit back and laugh and say "I will wait til the end of the season before I write him off because he may know more then I give him credit for"

[ganesh]

How can you possibly consider TD's year 2 draft average?

 

His top picks underperformed and his 2nd day picks provided absolutely zero production.

 

The inability of TD to find ANY productive players (except McGee) on any of day 2 drafts is what really crippled this franchise.

 

For a talent guru, his day 2 drafting was horrible.

 

The reason I spotted it as average was that we are still having a few players still playing in the league after 5 full seasons. Also Mike Williams did play 4 years and when he chose to play he was a dominating player.....If the coaching staff could not get the right amount of work from this talented player, it is not the fault of the GM.

 

The 2nd draft also included the trade for Drew Bledsoe. Considering what Bledsoe did that year, the draft could be considered average...

[ganesh]

It won't be a G (12 is a bit high for a G).

 

Depending on Clements, I forsee CB or LB.

 

DT and OG will be filled with free agents.

 

Reuben Brown was picked with the 11th or 13th pick in the draft and he was a guard and he was a dominating guard for us for 10 years....

 

If Clements walks, then we will be obliged to pick a CB in the 1st round.

 

As some one pointed out there is going to be a dog fight to get the very few FA that will be out in the market...I honestly don't know with the money situation if the Bills will be an active player in FA.

[ganesh]

What I really want in this draft is a player becoming unbelievable after being drafted...I want a Marcus McNeil or a DeMeco Ryans of last years draft on our team next season.

[obie_wan]

Reuben Brown was picked with the 11th or 13th pick in the draft and he was a guard and he was a dominating guard for us for 10 years....

 

If Clements walks, then we will be obliged to pick a CB in the 1st round.

 

As some one pointed out there is going to be a dog fight to get the very few FA that will be out in the market...I honestly don't know with the money situation if the Bills will be an active player in FA.

 

Ruben Brown was drafted as a LT which is where he played his whole career at Pitt.

 

He could not unseat Fina at LT so ended up at LG.

[The Senator]

I have no problem with the Bills taking a DE early even as a first round pick. Can you imagine teams having to decide who to double or triple team? Schobel on one end and another great pass rusher on the other. I think that would make all facets of the defense better. Obviously a big body for the middle is the biggest need but if a really great DE comes to them I say go for it. BS used to be able to run RB's down in the backfield. I don't think the Bills will get another BS but I think it could still be a move that would help the run defense.

 

Supposedly DL is a very deep position in this draft. Perhaps one would be available later.

Now that's a bold statement.

[Steely Dan]

Now that's a bold statement.

 

Do you disagree with that? Teams would be forced to only run the middle most of the time. The middle of the line could be shored up by another DT or a big MLB that could be gotten through FA or the draft. A great pass rush makes the backfield better and vice versa. With two stud DE's the Bills D would be something to behold.

[Ramius]

Do you disagree with that? Teams would be forced to only run the middle most of the time. The middle of the line could be shored up by another DT or a big MLB that could be gotten through FA or the draft. A great pass rush makes the backfield better and vice versa. With two stud DE's the Bills D would be something to behold.

 

You've highlighted your point quite nicely.

[In space no one can hear]

Ruben Brown was drafted as a LT which is where he played his whole career at Pitt.

 

He could not unseat Fina at LT so ended up at LG.

 

 

No matter what Brown played at Pitt he was projected to most likely be a guard in the pros.

 

He was not drafted to "unseat" Fina.

 

At the time Fina was a young and under-rated tackle.

 

We had more holes(at that time) to plug on the line than worrying about replacing him.

[Oneonta Buffalo Fan]

We will feel great. TRUST MARV! He has a plan.

[ganesh]

Ruben Brown was drafted as a LT which is where he played his whole career at Pitt.

 

He could not unseat Fina at LT so ended up at LG.

 

If I remember correctly we needed a LG and that is exactly where he wound up in the bills starting line up.

[Steely Dan]

You've highlighted your point quite nicely.

 

Just to let you know I'm not trying to shout. My eyesight isn't as good as it used be. This Makes it easier for me to read.

[The Big Cat]

We will feel great. TRUST MARV! He has a plan.

 

YES!

 

and it's a post relevant to the thread! DOUBLE YES!

[Bill from NYC]

So on draft day this year, don't freak out because Marv made a choice you didn't think of, sit back and laugh and say "I will wait til the end of the season before I write him off because he may know more then I give him credit for"

 

Fair enough, in the sense that each and every draft takes time to evaluate. I have never disputed this.

The truth is, I am not as angry about the 06 draft (as much as I am displeased with day 1) as I am apprehensive about the 07 draft.

 

Both of us, perhaps almost all Bills Fans can clearly see what is right and wrong with this football team.

[Dibs]

......as much as I am displeased with day 1......

Apart from the whole...."I wanted us not to draft a DB".....thing, I don't understand how you can be so displeased with day 1.

 

Looked at in perspective......that means comparing this 1st day to the 'average' first day after 1 year & you'll see that it is probably one of the better ones.

 

Comparing quickly to the East(AFC&NFC)....1/4 of league.

 

BUF

1/DB Whitner(15 starts)....rookie of month, one of best 1st rounders

1/DT McCargo(0 starts)....looked to be 'getting' it, then injured

3/DB Youboty(0 starts)....no play time due to totally non football situation...no reason to expect his potential to be reduced in any way.

 

NE

1/RB Maroney(no starts)....Good but Whitner was better

2/WR Jackson(1 start, 12 games played)....Not showing much on team with no WRs

3/TE Thomas(3 starts)....(3 starts, 1 decent game)....added not much more to team than Youboty did for us.

 

MIA

1/DB Allen(no starts)....20 tackles total for year

2/WR Hagan(no starts)....21 catches looks OK....comparable production to McCargo

 

NYJ

1/OT Ferguson(16 starts)....Very good but not quite as good as Whitner(?)(comparable)

1/C Mangold(16 starts)....One of the better 1st round picks

2/QB Clemens....virtually did not play

3/LB Schlegel....virtually did not play

3/DB Smith(no starts)....played 15, decent helper with 27 tackles & 2 ints

 

PHIL

1/DT Bunkley(no starts)....virtually a non-factor...McCargo did better in his 5 games

2/OT Justice....did not play

3/DE Gocong....did not play

 

DAL

1/LB Carpenter(1 start, week 17)....virtual non factor

2/TE Fasano(5 starts)....14 catches....helped, but not much

3/DE Hatcher(0 starts)....played 15 & helped with 2.5 sacks

 

NYG

1/DE Kiwanuka(9 starts)....Did pretty well with 4 sacks & 2 ints

2/WR Moss....virtual non factor

3/LB Wilkinson(2 starts)....played 16 games & did OK with 27 tackles

WASH

2/LB McIntosh(1 start)....played 16 games & did OK with 28 tackles

 

 

As you can clearly see.....

Only the Jets could really be considered to have had a definitively better day 1 than us.

We had(IMO) a definitively better day 1 than MIA, PHIL, DAL & WASH.

Comparable day 1 to NE & NYG

 

I think it crazy to assess after 1 year but.....basically.....the comments that our day 1 was "disastrous" or terrible are not only premature but....as I hopefully have shown.....out of context & incorrect.