John McCargo???

[inkman]

You can't "whiff" on a guy who's played a handful of games in his rookie season. As I find myself saying more and more often here, this is not fantasy football. Players actually develop over a span of time that is longer than it takes to heat up a hot pocket.

Precisely. Big guys take a while to develop. So do you think we are set at DT?

[MarkyMannn]

why are so many people counting on this guy for next year?

 

he couldn't beat out anderson or williams, did nothing when he did play and then got hurt

 

to count on this guy being a quality starter for next year is silly

 

They're the same people who figure Youboty is the answer @ DB

[34-78-83]

Precisely. Big guys take a while to develop. So do you think we are set at DT?

 

No. But no real conclusions can be made about rookies who only play for 5 games either.

[king bucko]

Manny and Mario were the keys to that line. I am a huge Wolfpack fan, and I can honestly say when McCargo got hurt as a Junior, nobody batted an eyelash as he was not that good. He did have some flashes as a senior, but that was due to so much attention being paid to Mario and Manny. I was shocked when Marv took Witner, but understood the choice. When he traded back into the first round and took McCargo, I had to turn the TV off for a couple minutes while I went to vomit.

 

 

You follow the Pack? McCargo didn't show any flashes as a senior. He was rookie with the Bills during his senior year. He did redshirt though. He was in Hall, Washington, and Lawson's recruiting class.

 

McCargo is a penetrating DT, he doesn't stuff the run, he never has, one of the main reasons Lawson and Williams were so successful was due to the fact that McCargo could penetrate and completely disrupt the pocket flushing the QB or RB out. He also took up space and blocking that allowed Stephen Tulloch to thrive as well as he did as an undersized LB. Tulloch essentially disappeared during his sophmore season when McCargo was hurt.

 

For his size his athleticism in the trenches in great. He has a lot to learn in the NFL, but if he is used right he's gonna be a good DT for the Bills. People forget that he was a fullback in HS that Manny Diaz found and convinced Amato that he could work out at DT or DE.

 

I've been a season ticket holder at NC State for years and McCargo's loss was a big as Williams and Tulloch. If anyone was overrated on State's team it was Lawson, as he was so athletically superior to most ACC right tackles and took advantage of the constant one on one match-ups he would face. People forget that Lawson was a bulked up OLB/TE who the friggin' two time defending ACC long jump champion.

 

That said, I hope all four of those guys (Williams, Lawson, McCargo, and Tulloch) are successful in the NFL.

[Robert Paulson]

LOL, you obviously didn't read my first post. I was defending McCargo. I agree with everything you said here.

No, Tripplett and McCargo play the same DT position. The whole idea is to have enough DT's to rotate on a consistent basis so that they stay fresh, considering that the whole philosophy is to penetrate into the backfield and bust up a play, versus the Ted Washington hunker down in the middle and don't move philosophy.

No, not true. He was never supposed to start next to tripplett this year. they in fact play the same position. the way we rotate DT's anyway, the starter only plays half the snaps anyway, so the whole point of who "starts" is fairly negligable..

Talk about exaggeration to prove a point. No one I've read on this board has put him one step away from the pro bowl already. I have, however, read a lot of posts that have very high expectations for him to be really good considering we traded up into the 1st round to get him. if you don't have high expectations for a player to be killer who you traded up for in the 1st round then i don't know how you can have expectations for any player!

Nothing, it just seemed to me that you want to throw him to the wolves already because he's not an immediate HOF player. The fact is that we need to play him as much as possible to see what he's got. That's it. Five games does not tell the story one way or the other. That's why, imo, your analysis is premature at best.

 

where did i ever say that this guy would not pan out?

 

i said he is a big?

 

and as a big ? we should not count on him for anything next year which means we still have big needs at DT

 

read anything else you want into my comments as you ball wash an injured rookie w/ 6 tackles in 5 games

[Ozymandius]

You follow the Pack? McCargo didn't show any flashes as a senior. He was rookie with the Bills during his senior year. He did redshirt though. He was in Hall, Washington, and Lawson's recruiting class.

 

McCargo is a penetrating DT, he doesn't stuff the run, he never has, one of the main reasons Lawson and Williams were so successful was due to the fact that McCargo could penetrate and completely disrupt the pocket flushing the QB or RB out. He also took up space and blocking that allowed Stephen Tulloch to thrive as well as he did as an undersized LB. Tulloch essentially disappeared during his sophmore season when McCargo was hurt.

 

For his size his athleticism in the trenches in great. He has a lot to learn in the NFL, but if he is used right he's gonna be a good DT for the Bills. People forget that he was a fullback in HS that Manny Diaz found and convinced Amato that he could work out at DT or DE.

 

I've been a season ticket holder at NC State for years and McCargo's loss was a big as Williams and Tulloch. If anyone was overrated on State's team it was Lawson, as he was so athletically superior to most ACC right tackles and took advantage of the constant one on one match-ups he would face. People forget that Lawson was a bulked up OLB/TE who the friggin' two time defending ACC long jump champion.

 

That said, I hope all four of those guys (Williams, Lawson, McCargo, and Tulloch) are successful in the NFL.

This is a good post. As I said last year after the draft, McCargo wasn't a reach, in the sense that other teams probably valued him the same way as the Bills did -- late first rounder. In college, he had a good burst off the line. However, he was an injury risk. In the end, I probably wouldn't have drafted him there, certainly wouldn't have traded up to draft him, but that has less to do with talent than with his risk for injury.

[Pete]

You follow the Pack? McCargo didn't show any flashes as a senior. He was rookie with the Bills during his senior year. He did redshirt though. He was in Hall, Washington, and Lawson's recruiting class.

 

McCargo is a penetrating DT, he doesn't stuff the run, he never has, one of the main reasons Lawson and Williams were so successful was due to the fact that McCargo could penetrate and completely disrupt the pocket flushing the QB or RB out. He also took up space and blocking that allowed Stephen Tulloch to thrive as well as he did as an undersized LB. Tulloch essentially disappeared during his sophmore season when McCargo was hurt.

 

For his size his athleticism in the trenches in great. He has a lot to learn in the NFL, but if he is used right he's gonna be a good DT for the Bills. People forget that he was a fullback in HS that Manny Diaz found and convinced Amato that he could work out at DT or DE.

 

I've been a season ticket holder at NC State for years and McCargo's loss was a big as Williams and Tulloch. If anyone was overrated on State's team it was Lawson, as he was so athletically superior to most ACC right tackles and took advantage of the constant one on one match-ups he would face. People forget that Lawson was a bulked up OLB/TE who the friggin' two time defending ACC long jump champion.

 

That said, I hope all four of those guys (Williams, Lawson, McCargo, and Tulloch) are successful in the NFL.

Great post!

[OnTheRocks]

This is a good post. As I said last year after the draft, McCargo wasn't a reach, in the sense that other teams probably valued him the same way as the Bills did -- late first rounder. In college, he had a good burst off the line. However, he was an injury risk. In the end, I probably wouldn't have drafted him there, certainly wouldn't have traded up to draft him, but that has less to do with talent than with his risk for injury.

if i recall correctly the Bills didn't really want to trade up to take him, but they saw nothing after him at the position that they were hot for, and didn't want to depend on a need position to be filled with something in the 5th round....like say....Kyle Williams.

[Sketch Soland]

where did i ever say that this guy would not pan out?

 

so you just don't expect him to be a quality starter next year but he will pan out?

 

i said he is a big?

 

that is certainly true. but so are all young players/rookies. what's so different about mccargo? that doesn't mean that he won't be a quality starter next year. he has to play so we can find out.

 

and as a big ? we should not count on him for anything next year which means we still have big needs at DT

when you invest a 1st round pick on a player you have to expect to count on him to be a "quality starter". Otherwise what is the point of drafting someone so high?

 

read anything else you want into my comments as you ball wash an injured rookie w/ 6 tackles in 5 games

 

Now that you are elaborating on your initial statement i don't have to read so much into your opinion. No ballwashing involved. No one knows how good or bad mcCargo is going to be but to render judgment either way based on 5 games is absurd. That was my point.

[Dawgg]

It works BOTH ways. One of the reasons McCargo was so successful is because Williams and Lawson consistently wreaked havoc on opposing offensive lines. I think McCargo benefited a lot more from his teammates than the other way around. What did Scottie Pippen do after he left the Bulls?

 

McCargo was NOT a first round talent and certainly was not worth the price the Bills paid to trade up for him. Will he be a servicable NFL player? Jury's still out, but he may very well be. Impact player? Doubtful. VERY doubtful. If only they had taken Jones-Drew with that pick. Hindsight is 20/20, oh well.

 

 

McCargo is a penetrating DT, he doesn't stuff the run, he never has, one of the main reasons Lawson and Williams were so successful was due to the fact that McCargo could penetrate and completely disrupt the pocket flushing the QB or RB out.

[CFLstyle]

so marv drafted him to be a back up to larry- i don't think so

 

he was suppossed to start next to larry and he couldn't crack the lineup

 

i'm not throwing him to the wolves but am commenting on the numerous posts that are putting this guy 'one step away from the pro bowl' (sarcasm on) when he did nothing this year

 

"Yes, before he was injured he earned the starting position next to Tripplett. He had really started to come on before the injury. I think what would work best for next year is to get a big bodied DT, and have him play on running downs, sharing with McCargo on passing downs, and Williams working in with Tripplett. "

he played in 5 games; none started; and was 5/1:6 in tackles- in no game did he have over 2 tackles- where was he coming on?

 

what is so kneejerk about questioning the elevation of an injured rookie with 5 solo tackles to quality starter next year?

so basically you only judge players by stats is that what you're telling me? Stats are for losers.

[Oneonta Buffalo Fan]

McCargo played well before he got injured. We'll wait and see how he's healed.

[CFLstyle]

You follow the Pack? McCargo didn't show any flashes as a senior. He was rookie with the Bills during his senior year. He did redshirt though. He was in Hall, Washington, and Lawson's recruiting class.

 

McCargo is a penetrating DT, he doesn't stuff the run, he never has, one of the main reasons Lawson and Williams were so successful was due to the fact that McCargo could penetrate and completely disrupt the pocket flushing the QB or RB out. He also took up space and blocking that allowed Stephen Tulloch to thrive as well as he did as an undersized LB. Tulloch essentially disappeared during his sophmore season when McCargo was hurt.

 

For his size his athleticism in the trenches in great. He has a lot to learn in the NFL, but if he is used right he's gonna be a good DT for the Bills. People forget that he was a fullback in HS that Manny Diaz found and convinced Amato that he could work out at DT or DE.

 

I've been a season ticket holder at NC State for years and McCargo's loss was a big as Williams and Tulloch. If anyone was overrated on State's team it was Lawson, as he was so athletically superior to most ACC right tackles and took advantage of the constant one on one match-ups he would face. People forget that Lawson was a bulked up OLB/TE who the friggin' two time defending ACC long jump champion.

 

That said, I hope all four of those guys (Williams, Lawson, McCargo, and Tulloch) are successful in the NFL.

RayFinkle = Owned

[Robert Paulson]

so you just don't expect him to be a quality starter next year but he will pan out?

that is certainly true. but so are all young players/rookies. what's so different about mccargo? that doesn't mean that he won't be a quality starter next year. he has to play so we can find out.

when you invest a 1st round pick on a player you have to expect to count on him to be a "quality starter". Otherwise what is the point of drafting someone so high?

Now that you are elaborating on your initial statement i don't have to read so much into your opinion. No ballwashing involved. No one knows how good or bad mcCargo is going to be but to render judgment either way based on 5 games is absurd. That was my point.

 

 

one more time

 

my comment was: he is unknown so why are so many people saying he is going to be great

 

i am not passing judgement on him except to say that he can not be counted on until he does it

[Robert Paulson]

so basically you only judge players by stats is that what you're telling me? Stats are for losers.

 

i saw every game

 

he did nothing up to the point he got injured to rate the praise and hope he is getting on this board for 2007

 

your stats comment was

[tennesseeboy]

I'm not giving up on McCargo, but I am saying we have to have an excellent run defense going into next year. I'm NOT confident that he is the answer, and I suspect he won't be. I think what we need to do is get the DT we need to contribute this year (Okoye). McCargo will develop or he won't, but I'd feel more confident going with a run stopper on the line and LF at middle linebacker, than a rookie MLB and the same defensive line we had this year. If McCargo makes it...fine. If he doesn't ...cut him. Happens all the time.

[ganesh]

I'm not giving up on McCargo, but I am saying we have to have an excellent run defense going into next year. I'm NOT confident that he is the answer, and I suspect he won't be. I think what we need to do is get the DT we need to contribute this year (Okoye). McCargo will develop or he won't, but I'd feel more confident going with a run stopper on the line and LF at middle linebacker, than a rookie MLB and the same defensive line we had this year. If McCargo makes it...fine. If he doesn't ...cut him. Happens all the time.

 

If our offense is improved next year and they can run the ball better and convert 3rd downs better, the offense will be on the field for a longer time keeping the defense fresh. For a change our offense can keep us in the games rather than the defense. If the special teams continues to play the way they have been playing, we should have a few more wins than this year.

[Sketch Soland]

one more time

 

so sensitive aren't you?

 

my comment was: he is unknown so why are so many people saying he is going to be great

 

Because we traded back into the 1st round to get him, and the general consensus seems to be that the light was beginning to come on when he got injured. It's also a latent hope that he will be the answer or at least a big part of the answer to shore up our internal D. Again, I don't see anybody enshrining him in Canton. I do see a lot of people with high expectations and hopes based upon the little time he has played so far. I think you are over exaggerating all the supposed "McCargo Ballwashing" that you see going on.

 

i am not passing judgement on him except to say that he can not be counted on until he does it

 

So, you started a whole thread to say that you can't know that someone is going to perform well until they actually perform? Because that's what this thread is: a marvelous exercise in obviousness

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

If our offense is improved next year and they can run the ball better and convert 3rd downs better, the offense will be on the field for a longer time keeping the defense fresh. For a change our offense can keep us in the games rather than the defense. If the special teams continues to play the way they have been playing, we should have a few more wins than this year.

Now for an opposing point of view.... Anyone who watched the Tennesse game saw that it was lost because we have a pathetic group of DT's. If we could stop the other team on third downs we would have more drives starting at our own forty or better, rather than at our own 20 , or worse --> with our kick return team on the field. Tripplett is average, Anderson MUST be gone, McCargo an unknown, and Williams looks like the return of Mike Lodish. This does not inspire me. I really believe that there are teams in this league whose third/fourth DT is better than our best. One stud DT will bring our line UP to the grade of substandard. I hate the idea that we develop a good DL/OL just in time for Lee Evans, J.P., ETC. to bolt as free agents.

 

I will agree that our ability to convert on 3rd down is deplorable (as is our O-Line) but the answer lies in getting big studs on both lines so THAT the line of scrimmage can be won. We pretty much rely on the 83 yard pass play for our "DRIVE".

[Dibs]

....and as a big ? we should not count on him for anything next year which means we still have big needs at DT....

I think we have to both count on McCargo and still have big needs at DT.

McCargo......like it or not......was a 1st round pick. That means unless he retires(or similar), he will be on the active roster next year......therefore....since the Defensive scheme we use relies upon high rotation amongst the DTs......we will need to rely on McCargo improving.

Obviously Anderson will be let go....that leaves Williams & ?????.....therefore we still(even with McCargo) have a big need at DT.

 

Simply....to become a 'very good' defence we need McCargo to become better than average AND we need another DT who is better than average.