Max997 Posted January 5, 2007 Posted January 5, 2007 One could also say Peyton Manning has never won a big game in his career either yet is widley considered the best QB in the NFL right now. people who look at stats think he is the best QB in the league, he is like Allen Iverson, give him enough shots and he'll lead the league in scoring but that wont win a championship
dave mcbride Posted January 5, 2007 Posted January 5, 2007 and whats your point...isnt every other college QB relatively the same age during their first two years of college??? thanks for chiming in with your incredible facts i really hate being a negative sorta guy because there are too many meanspirited people on this board already. but this is way out of line, and it makes you look, well, kinda dumb. there. i said it.
SACTOBILLSFAN Posted January 5, 2007 Posted January 5, 2007 One could also say Peyton Manning has never won a big game in his career either yet is widley considered the best QB in the NFL right now. Peyton Manning was 0 for against Tennessee in college and still can't beat Tom Brady. Peyton is turning into this generation's Dan Marino, sexy stats and nothing to show for it in terms of big wins. The problem with Quinn is that he didn't even put up sexy stats this season. I thought Quinn would tear it up this season especially when he's throwing to the likes of Samardzjia and Rhema McKnight and one of the top tight ends in the nation in Carlson, and an above average running game with Darius Walker. He dramatically underachieved in my opinion and i was an apologist for him early on.
dave mcbride Posted January 5, 2007 Posted January 5, 2007 i'm no lover of ND, but anyone who thinks that ND's offensive line was anything but a bunch of clayfooted slugs on their way to either b-school, a masters in ed., or a masters in criminal justice in two years hasn't been watching them at all. and beyond samaridza (sp?), none of those guys catching the ball are fit for the pros. as for the vince young comparison, come on. that team was loaded with a large number of aspiring professionals, many of whom will be playing on sundays (if they aren't already). as for quinn, he didn't beat USC last year, but he did everything he needed to beat them. he wasn't playing D when leinart was pushed into the endzone. it also seems to me that quinn played quite well in a 41-17 thrashing of michigan last year, a game that's basically as big as the SC game for the alumni.
dave mcbride Posted January 5, 2007 Posted January 5, 2007 Peyton Manning was 0 for against Tennessee in college and still can't beat Tom Brady. Peyton is turning into this generation's Dan Marino, sexy stats and nothing to show for it in terms of big wins. The problem with Quinn is that he didn't even put up sexy stats this season. I thought Quinn would tear it up this season especially when he's throwing to the likes of Samardzjia and Rhema McKnight and one of the top tight ends in the nation in Carlson, and an above average running game with Darius Walker. He dramatically underachieved in my opinion and i was an apologist for him early on. but ... but ... "he" beat them this year quite soundly! and "he" would have beaten them last year if vanderjagt hadn't missed a relatively easy field goal! it's a team game.
bluv Posted January 5, 2007 Author Posted January 5, 2007 i said this elsewhere but i'll say it again: quinn will most likely be an excellent pro. the problem with notre dame was surely not him -- it's the inferior talent on defense and the offensive line. that'll change in the future, but quinn had to play with it. it's no surprise that quinn's ND team got blasted by OSU last year, a team that had 5 first rounders in this past draft and probably 3 or 4 more this year. ND had none last year. The same goes for LSU - they're loaded with Saban's recruits, and they have far better overall talent than ND. It always amazes that people blame the QB in these types of situations ... Yeah and if he were drafted by the Bills he'd be so much better off surrounded by a great O-line and solid D - NOT! Quin will be worse off no matter where he is picked! That is why I said from day one that JP should be given at least 2 season to develop as a high pick like Quinn will take the same amount of time to develop IF he ever will plus set us back in the draft and salary cap while even if JP doesn't pan out at least we don't lose out even more than the 1st rd we gave up to give him instead of drafting a top QB and paying him as a top 5 QB based on draft slot as he played like the 32 ranked QB for 2,3 years as he develops!
dave mcbride Posted January 5, 2007 Posted January 5, 2007 Yeah and if he were drafted by the Bills he'd be so much better off surrounded by a great O-line and solid D - NOT! Quin will be worse off no matter where he is picked! That is why I said from day one that JP should be given at least 2 season to develop as a high pick like Quinn will take the same amount of time to develop IF he ever will plus set us back in the draft and salary cap while even if JP doesn't pan out at least we don't lose out even more than the 1st rd we gave up to give him instead of drafting a top QB and paying him as a top 5 QB based on draft slot as he played like the 32 ranked QB for 2,3 years as he develops! i disagree to an extent. i actually think the raiders offensive talent isn't that bad at all - it was just horribly coached and they had no credible qb. the same could be said for the browns and the lions, who have some actual talent on offense.
ganesh Posted January 5, 2007 Posted January 5, 2007 Peyton Manning was 0 for against Tennessee in college and still can't beat Tom Brady. Peyton is turning into this generation's Dan Marino, sexy stats and nothing to show for it in terms of big wins. The problem with Quinn is that he didn't even put up sexy stats this season. I thought Quinn would tear it up this season especially when he's throwing to the likes of Samardzjia and Rhema McKnight and one of the top tight ends in the nation in Carlson, and an above average running game with Darius Walker. He dramatically underachieved in my opinion and i was an apologist for him early on. Manning has beaten Tom Brady and company the last two times they met and both times in New England. Peyton cannot win the superbowl by himself. THe Colts need to play tough defense, something they have not done. Tom Brady had the luxury of a fantastic defense and great Special Teams during the super bowl seasons. Give Manning that kind of team and he will win multiple championships. In all those playoff losses, it was not Mannings fault that they lost those games.
dave mcbride Posted January 5, 2007 Posted January 5, 2007 Manning has beaten Tom Brady and company the last two times they met and both times in New England. Peyton cannot win the superbowl by himself. THe Colts need to play tough defense, something they have not done. Tom Brady had the luxury of a fantastic defense and great Special Teams during the super bowl seasons. Give Manning that kind of team and he will win multiple championships. In all those playoff losses, it was not Mannings fault that they lost those games. Thank you - smart post. That said, he didn't have the greatest of games in January 05 against the Pats ...
RLflutie7 Posted January 5, 2007 Posted January 5, 2007 i disagree to an extent. i actually think the raiders offensive talent isn't that bad at all - it was just horribly coached and they had no credible qb. the same could be said for the browns and the lions, who have some actual talent on offense. Andrew Walter is a better prospect than Quinn at least from a pure passer point of view. However, (and it's a very big however), he seems to like getting sacked.
34-78-83 Posted January 5, 2007 Posted January 5, 2007 Peyton Manning was 0 for against Tennessee in college and still can't beat Tom Brady. Peyton is turning into this generation's Dan Marino, sexy stats and nothing to show for it in terms of big wins. The problem with Quinn is that he didn't even put up sexy stats this season. I thought Quinn would tear it up this season especially when he's throwing to the likes of Samardzjia and Rhema McKnight and one of the top tight ends in the nation in Carlson, and an above average running game with Darius Walker. He dramatically underachieved in my opinion and i was an apologist for him early on.
Whitner20 Posted January 5, 2007 Posted January 5, 2007 I question Quinn in the pros. he had great coaches. He had two awesome wr's. And a solid TE.... and yet, still couldn't drive down the field. I wouldn't want him.
Dibs Posted January 5, 2007 Posted January 5, 2007 ...........it is impossible to tell whether Brady Quinn will be a star, a good player, an also ran, or a complete bust. Any takers? There is about a 25% chance for each of them. I just thought it might help if people read this(meaning what Kelly said) more than once in a thread about 'predicting' how good a 'can't miss' QB will be. 1. Vinny Testaverde 1. Jeff George 1. Tim Couch 1. David Carr 2. Rick Mirer 2. Ryan Leaf 3. Heath Shuler 3. Akili Smith 3. Joey Harrington But hey....can't miss with Quinn....he's special.
Max997 Posted January 5, 2007 Posted January 5, 2007 i really hate being a negative sorta guy because there are too many meanspirited people on this board already. but this is way out of line, and it makes you look, well, kinda dumb. there. i said it. make a better point next time then cool guy because making the excuse that he was only 18 and 19 before Weiss got there and that is why he struggled is just Da...Umb!
smokinandjokin Posted January 5, 2007 Posted January 5, 2007 Something to think about as well- Last year at this time there were probably very few on this board who had ever even heard the name "Jay Cutler." It was all Bush, Leinart, Vince Young going 1-2-3. Somebody with less TV exposure in college always shines at the combines and thrusts himself into the top of the draft. It wouldn't surprise me to see a QB like that grade out better than Quinn, at least pre-draft.
bluv Posted January 5, 2007 Author Posted January 5, 2007 i disagree to an extent. i actually think the raiders offensive talent isn't that bad at all - it was just horribly coached and they had no credible qb. the same could be said for the browns and the lions, who have some actual talent on offense. I'll agree to an extent as with parity all teams have tealent and there isn't as big of a gap in talent as it used to be. Take the Lions; they lost a lot of close games this year and Kitna did throw for 4000 yards. But now that Quinn has played poorly in the big college games he will already have question marks before he throws an NFL pass and will not be given the breaks Matt Leinart was and be as overhyped. I question Quinn in the pros. he had great coaches. He had two awesome wr's. And a solid TE.... and yet, still couldn't drive down the field. I wouldn't want him. Statements such as this prove my point above. That is why I hoped we'd stick with JP and at least give him 2 full season as a starter to fully evaluate his talents. I mean if we draft Quinn and he doesn't come in and set the NFL on fire then all these question marks will start arising by game 5! Then if JP is still on the roster his supporters will come out full force if Quinn struggles any.
ganesh Posted January 5, 2007 Posted January 5, 2007 Andrew Walter is a better prospect than Quinn at least from a pure passer point of view. However, (and it's a very big however), he seems to like getting sacked. I think the Raiders will pick that Russell kid from LSU...He will fit their system and Al davis always liked the gun slinger QB. He is like Culpeper and they might bring in a coach who can get him to work with Porter and Moss.
Max997 Posted January 5, 2007 Posted January 5, 2007 I think the Raiders will pick that Russell kid from LSU...He will fit their system and Al davis always liked the gun slinger QB. He is like Culpeper and they might bring in a coach who can get him to work with Porter and Moss. I wouldnt be surprised if they end up with Culpepper
buzzbait1965 Posted January 5, 2007 Posted January 5, 2007 Russell will NOT be the first pick of this draft. The Raiders need a running back in the worst way and they are a lot safer of a pick than some guy who beat a terrible ND defense. ND can not come close to competing with the big boys of college football if for no other reason than they actually make them go to class and pass. Novel idea for a kid in college. That takes away half the top recruits in the nation. I know some guys who played college ball and it's insane what they get away with in courses they take, and they were by no means going to the football factories like Bama, LSU. the U etc.
dave mcbride Posted January 5, 2007 Posted January 5, 2007 make a better point next time then cool guy because making the excuse that he was only 18 and 19 before Weiss got there and that is why he struggled is just Da...Umb! are you a professional jerk? basically, many of the top qbs did nothing when they were 18 or 19 because they either redshirted or sat on the bench behind another starter. leinart is the classic example, but the same could be said for many others: troy aikman, bernie kosar, vinnie testaverde, etc. a guy who did start from the get go was carson palmer, and he was highly unproductive his first two seasons. indeed, he was considered a bust by folks with the same mindset as you. tom brady didn't do so much his first couple of years at U of M either, btw. losman bounced from one program to another before he finally settled in his junior season. i think the challenge for you is to find any qbs who were highly productive at the ages of 18 and 19. you'll come up with a handful, but your evidence will be highly outweighed by opposing evidence.
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