UConn James Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 This quote is from you:Sure, you didn't say DW was a bad person, just that he wasn't a character guy. Are you effing dense? First, I used that phrase in quotes b/c that's the common usage describing those players. There are many degrees of 'character.' On the low end, let's go with Osama bin Laden. On the high end, let's say.... Ghandi. I'd say players like Lee Evans, Aaron Schoebel, etc. that Marv likes are higher character than people like Kobe Bryant, Lawrence Phillips, and the like. Why? They've never been involved in any kind of trouble. They do their jobs, go home, and you otherwise don't hear a peep. I'm getting castigated by you b/c I appreciate people like that? That I appreciate Thurman Thomas handing the ball to the ref rather than acting like a fool? I'm not slamming DW. He seemed to have turned things around quite a bit from his youth. But if you opened the myspace link, there's photos on there that show he still did the club scene. Nothing wrong with that; this is the land of the free, but as Bill said, and he should know, that lifestyle and hanging around with that crowd assumes more risk than driving straight home to wifey every night. Regardless, that didn't make him a 'bad person' b/c he chose to do different things. Mountain-climbers aren't 'bad people' even tho what they do is extremely risky. He didn't 'deserve' to be shot; I don't think anyone here said anything like that. And.... and you know what? I'm tired of explaining myself to you. I have better things to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Are you effing dense? First, I used that phrase in quotes b/c that's the common usage describing those players. There are many degrees of 'character.' On the low end, let's go with Osama bin Laden. On the high end, let's say.... Ghandi. I'd say players like Lee Evans, Aaron Schoebel, etc. that Marv likes are higher character than people like Kobe Bryant, Lawrence Phillips, and the like. Why? They've never been involved in any kind of trouble. They do their jobs, go home, and you otherwise don't hear a peep. I'm getting castigated by you b/c I appreciate people like that? That I appreciate Thurman Thomas handing the ball to the ref rather than acting like a fool? I'm not slamming DW. He seemed to have turned things around quite a bit from his youth. But if you opened the myspace link, there's photos on there that show he still did the club scene. Nothing wrong with that; this is the land of the free, but as Bill said, and he should know, that lifestyle and hanging around with that crowd assumes more risk than driving straight home to wifey every night. Regardless, that didn't make him a 'bad person' b/c he chose to do different things. Mountain-climbers aren't 'bad people' even tho what they do is extremely risky. He didn't 'deserve' to be shot; I don't think anyone here said anything like that. And.... and you know what? I'm tired of explaining myself to you. I have better things to do. Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taterhill Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 so moral of the story from you guys...go to clubs get shot..stay home..avoid getting shot...got it...I may have to pack a vest if I decide to go bowling Friday... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 so moral of the story from you guys...go to clubs get shot..stay home..avoid getting shot...got it...I may have to pack a vest if I decide to go bowling Friday... You are gone Bro... There is no way you can equate you and him and bowling. I have a hard time believing it is as random as you think... Even if it was a "mix-up" with the Hummer limo... You totally take more chances assuming a lifestyle that is known to be dangerous... Or has a rep for being dangerous... If this happend in Ralph's Ford Taurus driving home from picking up DJ at the airport... I might buy your argument... He is not to blame... But, he didn't lessen his chances of getting popped no doubt... Don't get me wrong... The whole "Hummer limo, fashion, etc..." lifestyle looks cool... But, you have to assume a certain amount of risk for embracing it... I love the "bling" and the "geetch"... But, common sense must pervail... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Drane Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Does anybody know if the Sabres go "clubbing"? All I got to say is that they better have been in bed getting plenty of rest so they can play the Isles! Heck, they won't even get into fights on the ice.....hangin' with the teenie-boppers at Soho is safe confines these days. I think the fight here is thug culture vs. actual thug. Thug culture has gone mainstream to include not only the majority of Pro athletes, but preppy little white kids in Orchard Park. That's just the way it is. I cringe when I hear the music my niece listens to, or how my nephew talks to his friends....but they are good kids. I let it be known what can happen if you hang out with actual Thugs and ride them mercilessly like Frank Sinatra would Eminem, but it really is the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Heck, they won't even get into fights on the ice.....hangin' with the teenie-boppers at Soho is safe confines these days. I think the fight here is thug culture vs. actual thug. Thug culture has gone mainstream to include not only the majority of Pro athletes, but preppy little white kids in Orchard Park. That's just the way it is. I cringe when I hear the music my niece listens to, or how my nephew talks to his friends....but they are good kids. I let it be known what can happen if you hang out with actual Thugs and ride them mercilessly like Frank Sinatra would Eminem, but it really is the way. True, I hear you and agree. See that is the whole point. To actually drive around "looking" like a thug is also driving around with a target on your back for the "actual thugs". Sure it is their right to live the "thug culture"... But, you also gotta assume the risks... Again... He DIDN'T "deserve" it or "had it coming"... But, he assumed a lot of risk of the culture. It is terrible that it is that way... But, you wouldn't go around impersonating Bugsy Malone in the 1930's would you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 I'm not slamming DW. He seemed to have turned things around quite a bit from his youth. But if you opened the myspace link, there's photos on there that show he still did the club scene. Nothing wrong with that; this is the land of the free, but as Bill said, and he should know, that lifestyle and hanging around with that crowd assumes more risk than driving straight home to wifey every night. Regardless, that didn't make him a 'bad person' b/c he chose to do different things. Mountain-climbers aren't 'bad people' even tho what they do is extremely risky. He didn't 'deserve' to be shot; I don't think anyone here said anything like that. And.... and you know what? I'm tired of explaining myself to you. I have better things to do. I'm done with this thread. You've had a holier than thou approach to nightlife in this whole thread from your very first post. You've looked down on the activity and the people who participate, and at the same time you're attempting to say that it is not a knock on DW. I don't buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justnzane Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 I'd say players like Lee Evans, Aaron Schoebel, etc. that Marv likes are higher character than people like Kobe Bryant, Lawrence Phillips, and the like. Why? They've never been involved in any kind of trouble. They do their jobs, go home, and you otherwise don't hear a peep. I'm getting castigated by you b/c I appreciate people like that? That I appreciate Thurman Thomas handing the ball to the ref rather than acting like a fool? Before the rape case Kobe was considered one of the good characters in the NBA. The only thing he was guilty of was cheating on his wife with a dirty slut. That said, it did happen in Denver, so maybe the city is the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 You've had a holier than thou approach to nightlife in this whole thread from your very first post. You've looked down on the activity and the people who participate, and at the same time you're attempting to say that it is not a knock on DW. I don't buy it. I will be the first (maybe the first) to openly say... Giving his past track record AND ADVICE from his previous coach not to get mixed up will people of suspect character... This was the last place he wanted to be coming from... Again... I don't know his past... But it seems his previous coach knew where his life was heading if he didn't square it away. I made the alcoholic crack about falling off the wagon... And sure he wasn't doing anything wrong... Somethings you just can't jump in and out of... There are things in life you just can't do--- You are given limits by the life you have CHOSEN to live or LED... And it MAY have caught up with him... Sure it is a cruel world, survivors tend to know their limits more often than not... I almost wish he had led a pious life because I wouldn't be taking this side... But, then again if he did he probably wouldn't have found himself in that situation? I really wish to know if this was purely random or not?... A mix-up with cars or something... Then I could finalize an opinion... Right now, I am going on his PAST credibility and his PAST track record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 It seems everytime an athlete gets shot its about a "dispute at a nightclub". Dont these people know how to act? I go out all the time and have the past 20 years and never have disputes at a nightclub. WTF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Each man's death diminishes me, For I am involved in mankind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Oh my God, this marks the 2nd time ever that JSP and I have agreed on something. !@#$ off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 The solution to all of this is to ban nightclubs. It was most likely the nightclub that got him killed, not possibly any of his actions while at the nightclub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLflutie7 Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 CNN.com is reporting that the Denver Broncos have confirmed that DB Darrent Williams was shot and killed this morning. http://www.cnn.com/ As a Bronco fan I'm sorry this had to happen. It doesn't really surprise me because it does seem that athletes are always getting into trouble at nightclubs. But I haven't seen a story about how this might be a dispute over a female. Just a thought, but isn't that what nightclubs are really for. People go to nightclubs to listen to music, dance and socialize with the opposite sex. It just might be that Williams or Javon Walker may have been approached by a female and some "thug" took offense because that's "his lady". The police said there's no way that the shooter could have seen inside the limo. Maybe they were aiming at Javon Walker or one of the female passengers. In that case, the killer might have just wanted to shoot up the whole car and hope to kill more than one person. Or it could have involved drugs. Who knows. My gut feeling tells me it might be a dispute over a female. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 I don't see why whenever someone dies it seems like we try so hard to find a reason to blame him for dying. "He wasn't wearing his seatbelt" "He smoked" "He's a thug". We all do our share of stupid things and sometimes people die younger than they should have. I don't see the point in trying to prove that it was his fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 I don't see why whenever someone dies it seems like we try so hard to find a reason to blame him for dying. "He wasn't wearing his seatbelt" "He smoked" "He's a thug". We all do our share of stupid things and sometimes people die younger than they should have. I don't see the point in trying to prove that it was his fault. There is a very good point in wanting to know... People LEARN from other's mistake... I am a thirdborn... That has helped me greatly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 It just might be that Williams or Javon Walker may have been approached by a female and some "thug" took offense because that's "his lady". The police said there's no way that the shooter could have seen inside the limo. Maybe they were aiming at Javon Walker or one of the female passengers. In that case, the killer might have just wanted to shoot up the whole car and hope to kill more than one person. Or it could have involved drugs. Who knows. My gut feeling tells me it might be a dispute over a female. You get to play the bass drum in this parade. Please tell us more of your theory. You seem well-informed. You and a couple other guys in this thread would have a fun threesome, I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 There is a very good point in wanting to know... People LEARN from other's mistake... I am a thirdborn... That has helped me greatly... I don't think I was clear enough about what I meant. I think it's fine and good to look into why someone died and the mistakes they made, but I don't like it when it comes with the attitude that it's not a tragedy when someone dies just because they made a mistake or the attitude that the person deserved it. I don't want anyone to assume that the post was directed at anyone in particular. I was just trying to caution people from acting superior when someone dies. That does not mean learning from the person's mistakes is a bad thing. I am not trying to attack people in general here (in fact no one here may have done it--but it has happened before, and some of things said so far reminded me of this issue), but I can understand people might have gotten offended by the way I put it. You appear to have felt I was attacking you, so I apologize for that as it was not my intent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 The solution to all of this is to ban nightclubs. It was most likely the nightclub that got him killed, not possibly any of his actions while at the nightclub. [sarcasm] Yes, that's what's being advocated. [/sarcasm] We all make choices --- thousands every day --- and we all have to accept the results of said choices. No way to go back in time and change them. Unless this was random, it looks like DW or someone he was associated with PO'ed the wrong person, with tragic consequences. What happened, happened and no one ever said life was fair. We all act like we're close to invincible, but we have so little control over what happens. Hopefully the police catch the reponsible person(s), but like the Ray Lewis incident, I doubt the public will ever learn one quarter of the truth. People LEARN from other's mistake. All due respect, but on the grand scale, no, they don't. Different faces, different places, different implements, but the same mistakes made at the dawn of man will still be made at the dawn of the Apocalypse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 I don't think I was clear enough about what I meant. I think it's fine and good to look into why someone died and the mistakes they made, but I don't like it when it comes with the attitude that it's not a tragedy when someone dies just because they made a mistake or the attitude that the person deserved it. I don't want anyone to assume that the post was directed at anyone in particular. I was just trying to caution people from acting superior when someone dies. That does not mean learning from the person's mistakes is a bad thing. I am not trying to attack people in general here (in fact no one here may have done it--but it has happened before, and some of things said so far reminded me of this issue), but I can understand people might have gotten offended by the way I put it. You appear to have felt I was attacking you, so I apologize for that as it was not my intent. No... I never felt attacked... Never felt offended... Maybe there is a superior issue here, I am fine with it and could care less if I am acting it... But, thanks for cautioning me... Really. I just can't understand why you feel the need to warn people... We are all pretty enlightened here and most accept responsibility. The guy is dead... And someday, I will die and it may be at the hands of my stupidity... I don't want people to cry for me or make excuses for it... I am cool with it Johnny... There is probably gone a be a time where I get screwed up for doing something stupid... I will blame myself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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