BillnutinHouston Posted January 1, 2007 Posted January 1, 2007 that he was really worth it at number 8. After a full year, I just don't see an impact player. He's good but not any great shakes. Has he shut down any TE this year? He was schooled by Heap today (I know Heap's a Pro Bowler but come on, make ONE play). Has he had any big hits? And don't tell me his hit on the TE today (either it was Heap or the Polish kid) counts - the guy bounced off, and wasn't wrapped up by DW)? I know we have planty of Marv lovers here, so someone please convince me how a nondescript safety and John McCargo were good, solid "impact" picks in the first round?
Peter Posted January 1, 2007 Posted January 1, 2007 I wondered from the beginning why we voluntarily created two gaping holes in our defense by cutting Lawyer and Sam Adams just to be able to better utilize the cover two. This just forced us to try to fill those holes (that we created) with a couple of rookies -- one of which was injured most of the season. It kind of reminded me of what Greggo did when he dismantled the number two defense in the league. Having said that, Whitner is a rookie. Whether he was worth the 8th pick in the draft remains to be seen. We should have a much better idea about this next year.
BADOLBILZ Posted January 1, 2007 Posted January 1, 2007 that he was really worth it at number 8. After a full year, I just don't see an impact player. He's good but not any great shakes. Has he shut down any TE this year? He was schooled by Heap today (I know Heap's a Pro Bowler but come on, make ONE play). Has he had any big hits? And don't tell me his hit on the TE today (either it was Heap or the Polish kid) counts - the guy bounced off, and wasn't wrapped up by DW)? I know we have planty of Marv lovers here, so someone please convince me how a nondescript safety and John McCargo were good, solid "impact" picks in the first round? It was a safe pick with not enough upside. Not a bad philosophy in an ordinary draft, but this draft was loaded with impact players in round one. Safeties are not that hard to find, big time lineman and QB's are much harder to come by. Whitner is going to be a good player for quite a few years, but it's hard to watch a guy like Ngata come in and turn the Ravens into an impenetrable run defense and then at the same time see Whitner getting run over, kicked in the head, bouncing off ball carriers.... Whitner is good, but he's not in the class of Troy Polomalu or Bob Sanders and I'm sure the Bills must have thought they were getting THAT to draft an undersized SS.
BillnutinHouston Posted January 1, 2007 Author Posted January 1, 2007 it's hard to watch a guy like Ngata come in and turn the Ravens into an impenetrable run defense and then at the same time see Whitner getting run over, kicked in the head, bouncing off ball carriers.... That's where I'm coming from, too. I think we could have done better at #8.
Bill from NYC Posted January 1, 2007 Posted January 1, 2007 that he was really worth it at number 8. After a full year, I just don't see an impact player. He's good but not any great shakes. Has he shut down any TE this year? He was schooled by Heap today (I know Heap's a Pro Bowler but come on, make ONE play). Has he had any big hits? And don't tell me his hit on the TE today (either it was Heap or the Polish kid) counts - the guy bounced off, and wasn't wrapped up by DW)? I know we have planty of Marv lovers here, so someone please convince me how a nondescript safety and John McCargo were good, solid "impact" picks in the first round? The first day of the 06 draft appears to be a disaster, but it IS admittedly too early to tell. Consider this if you will....we could have traded the pick, drafted Mangold, AND had an extra 2nd and more. We had 4 first day picks and came away with a seemingly decent safety, an injured DT and a corner who sat on the bench. We did very well on day 2, or so it would seem. If Marv continues to chase defensive backs next year on day 1 (a strong possibility), there is probably little hope for this team. We are already too small and too weak up the middle.
Ozymandius Posted January 1, 2007 Posted January 1, 2007 John McCargo coming through will be a huge key to that draft. We need another playmaker on the defensive line.
Peter Posted January 1, 2007 Posted January 1, 2007 John McCargo coming through will be a huge key to that draft. We need another playmaker on the defensive line. Agreed.
BillnutinHouston Posted January 1, 2007 Author Posted January 1, 2007 John McCargo coming through will be a huge key to that draft. We need another playmaker on the defensive line. I'm not holding my breath on McCargo. I didn't see much before he was hurt, and in fact I specifically recall he was being called out by the coaches for dogging it in camp.
Dibs Posted January 1, 2007 Posted January 1, 2007 that he was really worth it at number 8. After a full year, I just don't see an impact player. He's good but not any great shakes. Has he shut down any TE this year? He was schooled by Heap today (I know Heap's a Pro Bowler but come on, make ONE play). Has he had any big hits? And don't tell me his hit on the TE today (either it was Heap or the Polish kid) counts - the guy bounced off, and wasn't wrapped up by DW)? I know we have planty of Marv lovers here, so someone please convince me how a nondescript safety and John McCargo were good, solid "impact" picks in the first round? It's obviously a rhetorical question you ask......"impact"???? You know Whitner did not produce many big plays & that McCargo has been out injured most of the season. What are you attempting here....to goad a fool who doesn't quite read your post correctly? Were the two of them sold to us as "impact" players? The answer is no. They were sold as 1st round picks that we hope can become impact players(with Whitner billed as an instant starter).....Therefore your question has no real merit. If you were to simply ask about the effectiveness of the 2 1st round picks.......most don't assess things after just the rookie year. Impact
The Jokeman Posted January 1, 2007 Posted January 1, 2007 It was a safe pick with not enough upside. Not a bad philosophy in an ordinary draft, but this draft was loaded with impact players in round one. Safeties are not that hard to find, big time lineman and QB's are much harder to come by. Whitner is going to be a good player for quite a few years, but it's hard to watch a guy like Ngata come in and turn the Ravens into an impenetrable run defense and then at the same time see Whitner getting run over, kicked in the head, bouncing off ball carriers.... Whitner is good, but he's not in the class of Troy Polomalu or Bob Sanders and I'm sure the Bills must have thought they were getting THAT to draft an undersized SS. But look at the surrounding cast Ngata has in Baltimore. I think the defense is moving in the right direction from last year all things considered. Now the key is at least keep Clements and either re-sign Fletcher or find a suitable replacement to prevent a step backwards next year. As think if the defense can play as well as it has this year and the offense can improve there's no reason we shouldn't be a playoff team in 2007. To me my biggest concern today was Coy Wire playing CB instead of McGee in the base defense as also have to ask where's Yobouty and just shows how valuable Nate is going to be. Let's also remember about Sanders and Polamalu made their impact in their 2nd seasons not as rookies.
Bill from NYC Posted January 1, 2007 Posted January 1, 2007 It's obviously a rhetorical question you ask......"impact"????You know Whitner did not produce many big plays & that McCargo has been out injured most of the season. What are you attempting here....to goad a fool who doesn't quite read your post correctly? Were the two of them sold to us as "impact" players? The answer is no. They were sold as 1st round picks that we hope can become impact players(with Whitner billed as an instant starter).....Therefore your question has no real merit. If you were to simply ask about the effectiveness of the 2 1st round picks.......most don't assess things after just the rookie year. Impact The question DOES have merit imo. Besides, these are the things that fans talk about on message boards, right? Post after post praises Marv for the 06 draft. Do these posts have merit? Although it is absolutely subject to change, I think that day 1 was piss poor.
d_wag Posted January 1, 2007 Posted January 1, 2007 Let's also remember about Sanders and Polamalu made their impact in their 2nd seasons not as rookies. as opposed to ed reed, sean taylor, and roy willams, who were impact players from day 1.........given their draft position they are more relevant comparisons.........
The Jokeman Posted January 1, 2007 Posted January 1, 2007 as opposed to ed reed, sean taylor, and roy willams, who were impact players from day 1.........given their draft position they are more relevant comparisons......... and again look at the cast Ed Reed has had in Baltimore. Sean Taylor I'll admit has been great but he is a far better athlete then Whitner. In terms of Roy Williams, he's highly over rated.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 1, 2007 Posted January 1, 2007 as opposed to ed reed, sean taylor, and roy willams, who were impact players from day 1.........given their draft position they are more relevant comparisons......... Sean Taylor was VERY erratic his first season, sometimes just lousy, although you could tell he was going to be a great player.
East Brady Posted January 1, 2007 Posted January 1, 2007 The first day of the 06 draft appears to be a disaster, but it IS admittedly too early to tell. Consider this if you will....we could have traded the pick, drafted Mangold, AND had an extra 2nd and more. We had 4 first day picks and came away with a seemingly decent safety, an injured DT and a corner who sat on the bench. We did very well on day 2, or so it would seem. If Marv continues to chase defensive backs next year on day 1 (a strong possibility), there is probably little hope for this team. We are already too small and too weak up the middle. And with that extra second pick we could have drafted the SU saftey A. Thomas who can lay the lumber and also was ready to start from the get go.
bills44 Posted January 1, 2007 Posted January 1, 2007 And with that extra second pick we could have drafted the SU saftey A. Thomas who can lay the lumber and also was ready to start from the get go. I think you mean Anthony Smith
Rubes Posted January 1, 2007 Posted January 1, 2007 Man, I'm really pissed Ralph didn't hire some of you here instead of Marv.
Dibs Posted January 1, 2007 Posted January 1, 2007 The question DOES have merit imo. Besides, these are the things that fans talk about on message boards, right? Post after post praises Marv for the 06 draft. Do these posts have merit? Although it is absolutely subject to change, I think that day 1 was piss poor. My point is that the question was daring people to defend an obvious situation which was not supposed to have been any different. Neither Whittner nor McCargo were ever considered to be potential "impact" rookies. Whitner was considered to be a sure instant starter but since both were considered reaches at the time of being drafted, neither was considered to be an "impact" rookie. Your last bit......"Although it is absolutely subject to change, I think that day 1 was piss poor." Is a totally fair thing to say & obviously has merit. BillnutinHouston finished his post with "......so someone please convince me how a nondescript safety and John McCargo were good, solid "impact" picks in the first round?" which is not fair & has very little merit. If he'd left the word "impact" out, it would be asking a question which has merit. To(obviously) intend the word to be in there implies that there was some discussion of how both players would be "impact" rookies......and also....since neither have been "impact" rookies......it implies that the poster is goading people......why not say "since neither have been "impact" rookies.....blah, blah, blah" It would be like me posting......."so someone please convince me how JP was a good, solid "4000 yard" QB this year". There's merit to talking about JP.....but to ask that question has no basis & is intentionally inflammatory.
BADOLBILZ Posted January 1, 2007 Posted January 1, 2007 Man, I'm really pissed Ralph didn't hire some of you here instead of Marv. If Jauron can take the success he's had this year in taking this team from overmatched to competitive, and translate that into a legitimate Super Bowl contender, it won't matter that TD drafted all the playmakers, Marv will be the better GM because the #1 job of a GM in today's NFL is to pick the right coach and TD's coaching choices did more damage to the Bills than a few bad drafts could have done. The question is can Jauron take a team from decent to great given time and talent?
Dawgg Posted January 1, 2007 Posted January 1, 2007 Whitner is a solid player and will be a good starter for many years. The Bills would have been much better off, however, keeping Lawyer Milloy (who was under contract) and drafting Ngata. A future starting safety could have been found later on in the draft. IMO the same can't be said about a solid run-stuffing defensive tackle. that he was really worth it at number 8. After a full year, I just don't see an impact player. He's good but not any great shakes. Has he shut down any TE this year? He was schooled by Heap today (I know Heap's a Pro Bowler but come on, make ONE play). Has he had any big hits? And don't tell me his hit on the TE today (either it was Heap or the Polish kid) counts - the guy bounced off, and wasn't wrapped up by DW)? I know we have planty of Marv lovers here, so someone please convince me how a nondescript safety and John McCargo were good, solid "impact" picks in the first round?
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