BillsFanForever19 Posted December 28, 2006 Posted December 28, 2006 I think everyone is overreacting about this. Willis might not be a top-10 NFL RB, but he's better than most. He's set to make under a million guaranteed next season. I don't think he's out of line to say he deserves more than that. Nobody is holding out or badmouthing the organization or anything. So I think everyone whose calling him a jerk or wanting to cut him is pretty lame. Honestly, i'm surprised he's looking to get an extension. I was assuming that he'd sit on his contract until it was up and then sign with whomever gave him the most money. I'd love to lock up Willis and build a line around him, J.P., and Lee for the long-term future!
IDBillzFan Posted December 28, 2006 Posted December 28, 2006 He's set to make under a million guaranteed next season. I don't think he's out of line to say he deserves more than that. Herein lies something I just despise about the NFL. He signed a contract for five years, which means next year he will get exactly what he deserves because it is what he agreed to. I understand teams and players break contracts all the time, but it's annoying for the rest of us who have to live by the contracts we sign.
MRW Posted December 28, 2006 Posted December 28, 2006 Herein lies something I just despise about the NFL. He signed a contract for five years, which means next year he will get exactly what he deserves because it is what he agreed to. I understand teams and players break contracts all the time, but it's annoying for the rest of us who have to live by the contracts we sign. I'd be upset about it if it was a guaranteed contract, but given that a team can (and will) cut a guy loose when it suits them, I can't blame a player for looking to improve his deal when he has the opportunity.
d_wag Posted December 28, 2006 Posted December 28, 2006 I'd be upset about it if it was a guaranteed contract, but given that a team can (and will) cut a guy loose when it suits them, I can't blame a player for looking to improve his deal when he has the opportunity. seems to me the team doesn't get back a cent of that signing bonus money if a guy flops..........that is the money they receive up front, no strings attached, and that is often what leads to more years on the contract..........these guys love to get their big signing bonuses, but a lot of them don't want to live up to their end of the deal and would rather whine and complain about small salaries two or three years down the road..........it's all part of the total package........you can't look at the 1M he's going to make next year and ignore the signing bonus he received, which included consideration for his service next year.....
ganesh Posted December 28, 2006 Posted December 28, 2006 seems to me the team doesn't get back a cent of that signing bonus money if a guy flops..........that is the money they receive up front, no strings attached, and that is often what leads to more years on the contract..........these guys love to get their big signing bonuses, but a lot of them don't want to live up to their end of the deal and would rather whine and complain about small salaries two or three years down the road..........it's all part of the total package........you can't look at the 1M he's going to make next year and ignore the signing bonus he received, which included consideration for his service next year..... Sometimes players outlive their contracts....The contract might have been established based on what the player was capable of doing as of today...But in a year or two he might have played way above that expectation...It is only fair to throw that contract away and give the player a new deal..... Peters will not be playing on the 5 year contract he signed this year....In another 2 years the bills will have to renegotiate the contract so that he is paid on par with other LTs in the game....
d_wag Posted December 28, 2006 Posted December 28, 2006 Sometimes players outlive their contracts....The contract might have been established based on what the player was capable of doing as of today...But in a year or two he might have played way above that expectation...It is only fair to throw that contract away and give the player a new deal..... Peters will not be playing on the 5 year contract he signed this year....In another 2 years the bills will have to renegotiate the contract so that he is paid on par with other LTs in the game.... so why didn't the player sign a shorter deal? why didn't he sign for 2 years instead of 5? quite simply, they wanted the big signing bonus........that is the way the game works - they want more if they outperform, but they won't offer any back if they underperform.......seems like a pretty biased systems in favor of the players if you ask me
Buffalo Mike1 Posted December 28, 2006 Posted December 28, 2006 Sometimes players outlive their contracts....The contract might have been established based on what the player was capable of doing as of today...But in a year or two he might have played way above that expectation...It is only fair to throw that contract away and give the player a new deal..... Peters will not be playing on the 5 year contract he signed this year....In another 2 years the bills will have to renegotiate the contract so that he is paid on par with other LTs in the game.... Yup- and HE'S WORTH IT. And if Willis was, well nuff said.
ganesh Posted December 28, 2006 Posted December 28, 2006 so why didn't the player sign a shorter deal? why didn't he sign for 2 years instead of 5? quite simply, they wanted the big signing bonus........that is the way the game works - they want more if they outperform, but they won't offer any back if they under perform.......seems like a pretty biased systems in favor of the players if you ask me It is the only way to protect the player from injury.....Remember, the team does not have to honor a players contract....The team can cut a player if he is injured or not performing to a certain level. This is the only way for the player to get full value for the duration of the contract. If a players contract is guaranteed then it makes sense to not throw the big bonus upfront. And the NFL is not a socialistic organization wherein you earn what you work for? If that were the case, then the NFL will have a yearly contract.
d_wag Posted December 28, 2006 Posted December 28, 2006 It is the only way to protect the player from injury.....Remember, the team does not have to honor a players contract....The team can cut a player if he is injured or not performing to a certain level. This is the only way for the player to get full value for the duration of the contract. If a players contract is guaranteed then it makes sense to not throw the big bonus upfront. And the NFL is not a socialistic organization wherein you earn what you work for? If that were the case, then the NFL will have a yearly contract. so to protect the player from injury the player wants a big bonus upfront........no problem, teams are willing to do that......but what is in it for them?? years, they want players locked in for years so that they can get some return on their investment........so there is a trade off here - we'll give you money up front, but you lock yourself in for X amount of years at X amount of dollars......oh, by the way, if you underperform we may cut you down the road but, on the flipside, we won't ask for any of your signing bonus back, you get to keep that.......deal?? there is no gun to the heads of these players........if they trust there abilities and don't want to get locked in to a deal, no worries, sign a one year contract and get paid the next year based on your performance........but players won't do that (well, except for maurice clarett) because they want the upfront dollars.........the point is it involves a committment, and players should honor that committment......i don't have any pity for a guy who signs a deal, puts his pen to the paper - it is a trade off and when they sign they should accept that trade-off.......they can't have it both ways, although many try to
MRW Posted December 28, 2006 Posted December 28, 2006 the point is it involves a committment, and players should honor that committment......i don't have any pity for a guy who signs a deal, puts his pen to the paper - it is a trade off and when they sign they should accept that trade-off.......they can't have it both ways, although many try to I'd be fine with that if teams had to honor the commitment as well, but the truth is they don't, and I don't think it's fair to hold players to a different standard than teams.
generaLee83 Posted December 28, 2006 Posted December 28, 2006 This should be entertaining - Drew R seems to think Willis has been one of the better RB's in the NFL the past 3 years. There is a reference to Edgerinne James type money...Not on your life. Willis is a capable NFL running back, but the facts remain - No Pro Bowls, Never lead the lead in rushing, TD production low compared ot the elite backs of the league. Willis does deserve a new contract - I think money commensurate with a Rudy Johnson or maybe Thomas Jones...but not James, Tomlinson, Portis or Johnson money. This will be entertaining to watch... Levy needs to let Rosenhaus hype him up beyond all belief, even give Drew R. a bit of indication that they will work together. Let other teams also get excited about willis. Then bam, trade him for a 1st or 2nd, or both picks from a desperate and stupid team. Willis McGahee is not consistent enough, he is a fair weather player. He is not a true Buffalo Bill.
ganesh Posted December 28, 2006 Posted December 28, 2006 Willis McGahee is not consistent enough, he is a fair weather player. He is not a true Buffalo Bill. What makes you think that. The guy has played with heart with injuries...He is a finesse back like Thurman and needs a good OL to make plays. He is not a power back in the Bettis mold that can just bull rush people.
IDBillzFan Posted December 28, 2006 Posted December 28, 2006 I'd be fine with that if teams had to honor the commitment as well, but the truth is they don't, and I don't think it's fair to hold players to a different standard than teams. It's a two-way street. No question. I just think it sucks. Especially when people justify it by saying "I think I'm due this money." The main reason I wouldn't want to ink him to a big deal is simply because the moment you give him the dough, he'll have no more motivation. He has the noggin of a 12-year-old. In fact, I can't wait to see what he does against the Ravens. It takes some hefty coconuts to say you want to redo your contract the week before you play the #1 defense in the NFL which, by the way, is fighting for home field advantage for the playoffs. Unless the Ravens just come out flat, I see no way this will end well for Willis.
MRW Posted December 28, 2006 Posted December 28, 2006 It's a two-way street. No question. I just think it sucks. Especially when people justify it by saying "I think I'm due this money." Well, it depends. If Jason Peters (for example) continues his strong play at tackle and becomes a fixture of this franchise I think it's quite reasonable for him to say he's succeeded beyond expectations and deserves consideration. For Willis to demand a big payday when he's performed at merely an adequate level for an RB is another thing. However, I don't really have a problem with it if he and Rosenhaus are approaching it from the standpoint of seeking an extension and don't go the holdout route. I think the Bills would be crazy to give him a huge contract (although I'm not as down on him as some of the WM-bashers in these parts) but I don't have a problem with him saying "I'd like to stay with the team past next year, here's what I'm looking for."
sweetbaboo Posted December 28, 2006 Posted December 28, 2006 He is a finesse back like Thurman. WHAT?!?
Pyrite Gal Posted December 28, 2006 Posted December 28, 2006 One of the best back in the league? Where have I been the past 3 years? Willis has been mediocre at best here in Buffalo. Hes had one decent season, and for that he deserves top money? For real you gotta be kidding me......... Hes the 23rd best RB in the NFL right now......that tells me there are 22 RB's in this league that are better.......to me, thats not worth top dollar like Willis thinks. I dont know many RB's that are ranked 20th and beyond to hold out...... Actually, when one looks at what he said and stack up the competition which can be reasonably considered to meet this criteriam there actually is not much competition so WM arguably qualifies. If one considers the last few years to be the three seasons WM playedm then a reasonable starting point is that in order to be considered as among the best RBs in these three years, then you should have put up at least a 1,000 yards rusching in all three of these seasons. Doing this in my mind does not gurantee you a conclusion that you were a top RB these three years, but if you did not then it would seem reasonable to me not to consider you to be one of the best at all over the last few years (do you disagree and want to claim an RB with less than a 1,000 is one of the best over these three years. The first important thing in my mind is that WM ain't there yet unless he gains 33+ yards in Balt. He likely will but given injuries and a good Ravens D this is not a dealock certainty. The second thing though is that looking at these last few year, LaDamian, Tiki Barber, Rudi Johnson, Edgerrin Jamed and Warrick Dunn are the 5 other RCs who have three 1,000 yard years, Having membership (assuming he gets a few more yard on Sunday) includes WM in this elite group in terms of on-filed achievement over the last few years. My sense is that clearly WM lags in the back of this group in terms of production as an RB as the Bills have never found an effective way to use him as a pass catcher and he does not pose enough of a consistent ground threat to make it something one can overlook. However, I (like many others) had really assumed his career was over when he suffered a tremendous injury at the end of his college career and the fact that he has come back to likely be one of few RBs to rush for 1000 yards on the ground three straight seasons is darn impressive. I think labeling him as one of the best RGs the last few years is arguably true. To claim he is the best would be laughable over even in the top 5 would be a stretch but once one made claims about the details such as him having little consistent TD production then one opens as fair game also taking into account that he has always played with QBs who could best be called troubled and an O-line which has simply sucked a large part of his career. If in fact, one believes JP has improved enough to be a real consistent threat throwing next year and that our OL is going to be better finally if not even good, then having the hope that WM can actually produce as a top 5 RB is not only reasonable but actually even likely if he remains healthy,
BuffaloBob Posted December 29, 2006 Posted December 29, 2006 Herein lies something I just despise about the NFL. He signed a contract for five years, which means next year he will get exactly what he deserves because it is what he agreed to. I understand teams and players break contracts all the time, but it's annoying for the rest of us who have to live by the contracts we sign. I don't see anything wrong with a player saying he would like to re-up now for purposes of security, and giving a team the chance to tie him up long-term for what may and should be far less money than what he may command in the open market a year from now. Just because his agent is posturing with his "one of the best backs in the league" tripe doesn't mean that he expects Willis to a get an Edgerrin James type deal. Remember, it was the writer that mentioned that deal, not DR. The Bills have shown the moxy to get some of their better players extended now, rather than waiting until their contract years. There is clearly many good reasons for doing so. It can be a win-win for both the player and the team. If the demands are reasonable, or at least if the ultimate numbers are reasonable, then why not? I don't think there is or has been any indication that Willis isn't willing to play for what he is owed next year under his current contract. Once again, it was clearly the writer bringing up the hold-out possibility, not DR. The Bills are in the driver seat here. Willis has been productive, but far from a superstar. The numbers should reflect that. If they don't, Willis can play out his contract and the Bills can go from there. If the numbers are reasonable, it can be a real win-win for both sides. Willis gets security, and hopefully we get a very productive back for a number of years at a relative bargain.
East Brady Posted December 29, 2006 Posted December 29, 2006 After reading the thread, I guess I'm in the minority here. Willis has played very strong since the bye week, while injured, which says alot. I think he can be somewhat immature as a football player, but judging by the results of the season and this coaching staff, we should extend his contract with a nice raise and some makable incentives built in. With the continuity that is being gained by the O-line we also need that same continuity at the rb position. Willis really earned back some respect from me as a fan and I hope we keep him. I am sick of the cycle of running off quility football players and this team is building a very strong foundation for the future and Willis has earned the right to be a part of that, with his play the last 8 weeks. I believe that Big Dickey J can get the best out of this guy and he just doesn't turn the balll over. Hell one thing we know and that is 4 monster games per season against the jets and dolphins, Big Dick will get the best from him as he did coming down the final 6 weeks this year. I hope we sign him at a fair price with incentives.
billrooter Posted December 29, 2006 Posted December 29, 2006 Good. I have just been counting down the days until WM leaves town. Let's draft someone in the 2nd or 3rd round this year. Ditto that i totally agree!
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