Trade McGahee to the Giants for a #1.

[Pass the Pipe]

Hell, I would even throw in a later round pick to get this deal done. Willis is an above average back at best; frankly, after watching the head to head last week against Travis, I feel one of Donahoe's biggest miscues was drafting Willis when he already had a quality back on the roster. This move basically amounted to drafting a lower quality player and cutting a proven ProBowl alternate back, go figure? Maybe Chris Mortenson can see the genius in that move?

[BILLSBACKERINLA]

I think most of us agree that Willis is a good, but not great player. Running backs are over-valued in this League, because their value-over-replacement is not as high as their contracts would suggest. In other words, McGahee is likely seeking an enormous contract, which would be extremely disproportional to his value over an average replacement player at his position. He is simply not elite, and he'll want an elite contract. A high-quality running back can be drafted in the late first and second round or later (see: Clinton Portis, Joseph Addai, Maurice Jones-Drew, Travis Henry, etc.).

 

Meanwhile, I would not be surprised if the Giants dangled their #1 pick for him this offseason. They are about to lose Tiki, they've had a miserable season which they blame on coaching, their QB, and injuries (not overall talent), and they need to make a splash with at least one big-name acquisition to re-engergize their fan base. Their last few #1 picks have not exactly been smashing successes: Eli, Kiwanuka (sp?), and Sinorice Moss have contributed very little, and Shockey has also been a disappointment. I doubt they covet another number 1 pick as much as a proven running back with a reputation as a "star," even though we all know he isn't one.

 

And don't tell me the Bills couldn't use another #1. They could draft two first-round linemen (one on O, one on D), or perhaps Adrian Peterson falls to one of their #1s (and he would be much cheaper than McGahee, with just as much if not more upside).

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

The Giants are happy with putting Jacob as the number one back. Now if Nate was under contract still with the Bills I think that the Giants would jump on that way before they do anything with Willis.

[BUFFALOTONE]

Michael Turner will be the focus of the Giants come the off-season. Between him and Jacobs he is a great change of pace. Plus there is no way that Jacobs can shoulder the full load in NY.

[BillsFanForever19]

You'd never get a 1st for Willis.

 

In 2005, Shaun Alexander and Edgerrin James were both on the market for a 2nd Rounder and no one bit. Neither of them have a completely reconstructed knee and are considered better RB's than Willis.

 

The guy is asking for a contract extension (which shows loyalty to Buffalo) and a raise. He's set to make less than a million guaranteed next year. I don't think he's out of line at all and certainly this is no reason to start creating "Trade 'em!" or "Get rid of 'em!" threads.

[Rico]

I think most of us agree that Willis is a good, but not great player. Running backs are over-valued in this League, because their value-over-replacement is not as high as their contracts would suggest. In other words, McGahee is likely seeking an enormous contract, which would be extremely disproportional to his value over an average replacement player at his position. He is simply not elite, and he'll want an elite contract. A high-quality running back can be drafted in the late first and second round or later (see: Clinton Portis, Joseph Addai, Maurice Jones-Drew, Travis Henry, etc.).

 

Meanwhile, I would not be surprised if the Giants dangled their #1 pick for him this offseason. They are about to lose Tiki, they've had a miserable season which they blame on coaching, their QB, and injuries (not overall talent), and they need to make a splash with at least one big-name acquisition to re-engergize their fan base. Their last few #1 picks have not exactly been smashing successes: Eli, Kiwanuka (sp?), and Sinorice Moss have contributed very little, and Shockey has also been a disappointment. I doubt they covet another number 1 pick as much as a proven running back with a reputation as a "star," even though we all know he isn't one.

 

And don't tell me the Bills couldn't use another #1. They could draft two first-round linemen (one on O, one on D), or perhaps Adrian Peterson falls to one of their #1s (and he would be much cheaper than McGahee, with just as much if not more upside).

 

Thoughts?

Sounds good on paper if the Giants really would make the trade...

but Willis for the next John McCargo would not be good value IMO.

[MartyBall4Buffalo]

And don't tell me the Bills couldn't use another #1. They could draft two first-round linemen (one on O, one on D), or perhaps Adrian Peterson falls to one of their #1s (and he would be much cheaper than McGahee, with just as much if not more upside).

 

Thoughts?

 

I agree with most of what you said. Although I dont think McGahee is looking for as big of a contract as you think. More then anything I think he's looking for security. The fact that this is being brought up now tells me. He wants to stay here and would rather worry about it now then when his rookie contract is up. Now aside from that if McGahee was to be traded to the giants for their #1 pick I'd much rather draft Marshawn Lynch over Adrian Peterson.

[smokinandjokin]

Sounds good on paper if the Giants really would make the trade...

but Willis for the next John McCargo would not be good value IMO.

 

Yes Rico, yes. Simply saying McGahee for a #1 sounds okay, but it's going to be a mid-round pick. Misfiring on that pick would seriously hurt this franchise. McGahee, regardless of the 'he sucks' opinions, is not a player that can or should be given away. I also don't think he's as easily replaceable as many here think him to be. A-Train performed well when he was called on...But he was called on against the Packers and Colts, two of the poorest tackling teams in the NFL. It's highly possible I could've picked up 100 yards against those teams.

[ThePebble19]

Wow...that is a rediculous idea...They have a little someone named Brandon Jacobs who may not be quite as quick, but runs 10x harder than McGahee.

 

Not to mention that this is a RB deep draft, and noone is going to give up a 1st rounder for McGahee....

[tennesseeboy]

we would be ucky to get a third or fourth. I think he is going to ask for top dollar, and he is not a top dollar performer. I've said before that we should have kept henry and I'm more convinced than ever. Dump WM and see what we can do in free agency. Turn the money you save into signing Clements and Fletcher.

[The Big Cat]

I think you said it in the first line, good not great, unless the giants have some wierd thing for Miami players...which it looks like the do.

 

What about WM AND Roscoe? Or WM and Reed?

[ganesh]

we would be ucky to get a third or fourth. I think he is going to ask for top dollar, and he is not a top dollar performer. I've said before that we should have kept henry and I'm more convinced than ever. Dump WM and see what we can do in free agency. Turn the money you save into signing Clements and Fletcher.

 

Can we get back Travis Henry in Free Agency ?

 

I am sure McGahee understands where he stands as a RB and what contract he can get from 32 NFL teams. I am sure the Bills understand the situation and are going to look at it from the teams perspective.

[generaLee83]

Agree with post

[Cripes]

One quick caveat on Adrian Peterson (from an OU fan): he is a rugged, fearless runner who sometimes plays outside his own limits. He's had three major injuries at Oklahoma that came from trying to bowl over, run through and slam into defensive players. In high school, it was easy street -- in college, it led to a serious shoulder injury his freshman year and a high sprain his sophomore. His collarbone injury was a freak accident from diving into the end zone when he didn't have to (padding a comfortable lead over Iowa State).

 

I'm amazed by the guy, but with the way he plays, he's going to be on the questionable list six times a year in the NFL.

[Pyrite Gal]

The key to this very hypothetical move is what type of team does this theoretically give the Bills in 2007 (and of course figuring in the long term possibilities).

 

This is why the thoughts offered here would be one I would reject because the post really says nothing about there this leaves the Bills in terms of even a semi-rational hypothetical future.

 

Having another 1st round pick simply means little unless an idea is presented as to how you are going to translate that pick into being a better team.

 

The unanswered (and really even unasked) questions are what does the author see as the primary Bills needs to build a winner in 2007 and beyond and who as specifically as the author can get does the suggester suggests we can get with the first round choice?

 

Also, you have now traded away your starting RG and how does the suggester suggest that this gap is filled.

 

My sense is that the argument the suggester is making is that a very good starting RB can be found with a later and even second day draft pick. Who specifically are we talking about and if the idea is simply you eject WM and go with Anthony Thomas as your starter and Shaud Williams as your back-up I think almost all would say thanks but no thanks.

 

Simply saying that this is easy and we draft the current equivalent of Terrell Davis in the 7th is to put it nicely a theory more easily said than done and without even some suggestion (much less detail) of how and who this is the suggestion is laughable.

 

What I suspect is that the thought and info which would make this even an interesting proposal is that the author sees some specific need to make the Bills competive for a playoff shot (for example, some argue we need a run stuffing DT while other argues we need a threat at WR which makes Evans even more effective as the way to go).

 

Getting another first rounder means little to me because even in these two cases if one buys them, the target is probably better found among FAs than in the draft crapshoot.

 

If the author feels that our first round choice McGahee is definitely not worth a big contract then it seems to make little sense to argue that the answer to this is to instead give a big contract (which is a first rounder will get by practice) to another 1st rounder who quite frankly is unlikely to even produce the likely 3 straight 1,000 yard rushing years that WM will have on his resume.

[bills4bowl21]

thats a no-brainer....willis just dosent have that 2nd burst to break the outside like LT and Portis..i mean willie parker has better burst

[/dev/null]

What about WM AND Roscoe? Or WM and Reed?

 

How about McGahee and a 3rd to the Titans for Travis Henry back

[Peter]

These daily "I hate WM" threads are comical.

 

The guy played his heart out with broken ribs and a bum anke. He did so while playing defenses that were stacked against the run the vast majority of the time and, yes, with an offensive line that any honest evaluation of this team would have to conclude is long overdue for a major upgrade. [You may want to ask Edge what importance he now places on an offensive line]

 

It is comical to read all of the haters' posts. The haters have often stated that he is not a "Buffalo" guy and cannot wait to get out of Buffalo. Yet, every indication has been to the contrary. In fact, his agent's latest comments confirm that he wants to extend his contract with the Bills and stay with the team. Every comment I have ever read or heard from one of his teammates on the Bills on the subject has been that WM is a great teammate and has a lot of heart. Excuse me if I take their word for it rather than that of a bunch of keyboard jockeys who probably never played the game let alone the position.

 

Before we run our starting RB out of town, I would suggest that we seriously upgrade both our offensive and defensive lines. RB is among the least of our worries.

[SnakeOiler]

Not a chance in heil.

 

Many would be thrilled to trade WM for a #1 -- suggests most think he's not worth a #1 (i.e,. great trade for the bills). Giants would probably feel the same way. Giants could trade for C Dillon for a #4, or maybe ricky williams for a #6. Those are just a couple of options. Or, they could use that pick and get an even younger quality RB without any history of a major injury. WM on the open market would get a late 3rd round pick i would guess.

 

Anyone have a list of players in the last 3 years that have gone for a 1st round pick?

[BuffaloBob]

These daily "I hate WM" threads are comical.

 

The guy played his heart out with broken ribs and a bum anke. He did so while playing defenses that were stacked against the run the vast majority of the time and, yes, with an offensive line that any honest evaluation of this team would have to conclude is long overdue for a major upgrade. [You may want to ask Edge what importance he now places on an offensive line]

 

It is comical to read all of the haters' posts. The haters have often stated that he is not a "Buffalo" guy and cannot wait to get out of Buffalo. Yet, every indication has been to the contrary. In fact, his agent's latest comments confirm that he wants to extend his contract with the Bills and stay with the team. Every comment I have ever read or heard from one of his teammates on the Bills on the subject has been that WM is a great teammate and has a lot of heart. Excuse me if I take their word for it rather than that of a bunch of keyboard jockeys who probably never played the game let alone the position.

 

Before we run our starting RB out of town, I would suggest that we seriously upgrade both our offensive and defensive lines. RB is among the least of our worries.

Can I get an AMEN!

 

Willis had some serious injuries and played anyway. Anybody forget that this O-line at best is a work in progress?? I have been very impressed with Willis since he returned from the rib injury. And during that time, he was also battling a bum ankle as well. Lacks a burst to the outside? Willis ran away from DBs several times this year once he broke into the open.

 

I was at the Titans game, and I thought he ran really well, and with authority. He has really shown me something this season, and especially down the stretch since the O-line shuffle. Willis has great upside in my opinion.

 

If the dollars he is asking for is reasonable, I think the Bills would be nuts not to extend him now, while the gettin' is good.

 

While I think Nate the Great is a very good player, I am far less enraptured with the idea of giving him Champ Bailey money. I think Nate would be one of those guys who would take that kind of money and cruise into retirement. I don't see that with Willis, and he'll be far less expensive.

[Stussy109]

and we go into the season with A train and shaud williams, I'll pass