ESPN News tidbit on Nate Clements Free Agency

[Dawgg]

Nah I've met his fiance at the Jax game.

 

Is this info from JPs cuz?

[NavyBillsFan]

For what it is worth, Jerry Sullivan is on record as saying that Ralph Wilson has verbalized to him that he (RW) does not belive any cornerback is worth the kind of money that it would likely take to re-sign Clements. I know most here hate Sullivan, but I don't think he would have said this (on one of his GR55 segments) unless Wilson actually said it.

 

The only way, as I see it, Nate ends up in a Bills uniform next year, is if the Bills pony up a lot of cash. Two recent interviews I heard with Clements gave me no indication that he had any warm and fuzzy feelings about WNY (he won't give the Bills a "hometown discount"), and every indication that he feels he has earned his big payday, which he will get,

no matter where he has to play.

 

My feeling is, I would absolutely love to have Clements back, but, given the immenent free-agency of guys like Losman, Evans and McGahee, I am not sure it would be wise to make a corner the highest paid player on the team. For whatever the reasons (legit or not), we already know that the Bills will not spend up to the salary cap max. To pay Clements what he is likely to want, would throw the Bills entire salary cap structure out of whack. Not a good way of rebuilding a team.

 

 

You want to win? Sign your players.... Ralph's problem is his 3 dollar coaches and not holding on to players... We have been in the rebuilding mode for 12 years now and nothing in Ralph's plans have worked... Ralph thinks 20 years ago, not how the league works now. Contract will now rise with the new cap figures and Ralph DOES NOT have the money to pay these bonus figures that teams like Dallas and Washington will pay. Sad fact but I got a bad feeling this team is going to become a friggin farm team for the rest of the league. Sign Nate.... Im tired of this rebuilding crap...

[SACTOBILLSFAN]

I want Nate back here. He is one of the best cornerbacks in the league and he deserves to be paid like one. However, he is not Champ Bailey, and he does not deserve to be paid like Champ Bailey. When he retires, Bailey may go down as the best CB of all time.

 

I wish that we would be able to sign Nate for Chris McAllister type money, but I don't think that it will happen.

 

I don't agree with Bailey being the best, Deion was THE best cover corner but what he called "tackling" was more of a half assed dive to the ground to avoid any real contact. Also, Darrell Green was a great corner back who I would take over Champ. Also, Nate is gone.

[Lori]

For what it is worth, Jerry Sullivan is on record as saying that Ralph Wilson has verbalized to him that he (RW) does not belive any cornerback is worth the kind of money that it would likely take to re-sign Clements. I know most here hate Sullivan, but I don't think he would have said this (on one of his GR55 segments) unless Wilson actually said it.

 

The only way, as I see it, Nate ends up in a Bills uniform next year, is if the Bills pony up a lot of cash. Two recent interviews I heard with Clements gave me no indication that he had any warm and fuzzy feelings about WNY (he won't give the Bills a "hometown discount"), and every indication that he feels he has earned his big payday, which he will get,

no matter where he has to play.

 

My feeling is, I would absolutely love to have Clements back, but, given the immenent free-agency of guys like Losman, Evans and McGahee, I am not sure it would be wise to make a corner the highest paid player on the team. For whatever the reasons (legit or not), we already know that the Bills will not spend up to the salary cap max. To pay Clements what he is likely to want, would throw the Bills entire salary cap structure out of whack. Not a good way of rebuilding a team.

Odomes. Jeff Burris. Thomas Smith. Antoine Winfield. When's the last time the Bills DID extend or re-sign a CB, other than McGee (who was probably re-upped more for his KR skill than his play on defense...)?

 

The thought of McGee and somebody other than Clements starting at corner next season frightens me, but I'm resigning myself to watching it happen.

[beerme1]

You want to win? Sign your players.... Ralph's problem is his 3 dollar coaches and not holding on to players... We have been in the rebuilding mode for 12 years now and nothing in Ralph's plans have worked... Ralph thinks 20 years ago, not how the league works now. Contract will now rise with the new cap figures and Ralph DOES NOT have the money to pay these bonus figures that teams like Dallas and Washington will pay. Sad fact but I got a bad feeling this team is going to become a friggin farm team for the rest of the league. Sign Nate.... Im tired of this rebuilding crap...

 

I agree with you on a number of points.

 

Memo to Ralph,

sell the team to someone who will does have the money to make this thing work. Nate this year, Willis next, JP after that. If Ralphie cant stomach the thought of all that signing bonus money flying out of the bank and we are to beleive his love of the team (and city, Ha) sell it to someone who will make that commitment and wont be scared off due to money.

[kgun]

I want Nate back here. He is one of the best cornerbacks in the league and he deserves to be paid like one. However, he is not Champ Bailey, and he does not deserve to be paid like Champ Bailey. When he retires, Bailey may go down as the best CB of all time.

 

I wish that we would be able to sign Nate for Chris McAllister type money, but I don't think that it will happen.

 

First of all, McAlister is a better corner than Bailey; also has only one L in his name. I would take him any day of the week over a guy named "Champ" get real.

 

 

Bailey is --IN NO WAY-- better than A. Williams or D. Green; on bad days.

[Buftex]

Odomes. Jeff Burris. Thomas Smith. Antoine Winfield. When's the last time the Bills DID extend or re-sign a CB, other than McGee (who was probably re-upped more for his KR skill than his play on defense...)?

 

The thought of McGee and somebody other than Clements starting at corner next season frightens me, but I'm resigning myself to watching it happen.

 

 

Exactly. And remember, all of those guys (Odomes, Burris, Smith & Winfield) were let go long before Ralph was so publicly complaining about money. I just don't see him making the necessary moves to sign Clements, given his recent, much publicized stance about the woes of small market NFL teams. I am not saying I agree with him at all, just that I have given up any hope of the Bills bringing back Clements.

 

You are correct too (as usual) about the McGee re-signing. If I am not mistaken, when he was re-singned, McGee was coming off an incredible year as a return specialist, and a so-so year as a corner. IIRC, he also had two years left on his deal. TD wanted to re-sign him then, beofore his reputation got so big, he would be tempted to test the free agency market.

 

Donohoe may have had his problems, but manuvering the salary cap wasn't one of them. McGee has been disappointing as a starting corner (I loved him as a nickel back), but he has been consistantly good as a return man. He was worth the extension.

 

As the Bills are so far below the cap already (and it is projcted to go up another 5-7 million this off-season), I am hoping Marv found TD's cliff notes on salary cap managment, and tries to extend Lee Evans before he gets to his final year. As he just played his 3rd year, I am assuming he has two more years left.

 

I would give Losman another year to show his competance, and try to re-sign him before he hits the market as well...and then, there is Willis. What to do about McGahee? If Rosenhaus wants to talk now, I would be open to it, but I wouldn't break the bank to keep him. I like McGahee, but I am not sure he has been that big of an upgrade over what we had before. If he and his agent play hardball, and he stages a holdout, I am not sure that it would bode well for the Bills. McGahee, personally, is a hard guy to get a gauge on. I could see a season of going through the motions, just as much as playing all-out for a big free-agency payoff.

 

As for London Fletcher and Chris Kelsay, I would be delighted to have either back, but only at the right price.

[eball]

I dont believe what some reporter says, most of the time they are 100% wrong.

And half the time they are 50% incorrect. Unless it's the other 75% of the time, in which case they are likely to be at least 25% mistaken.

 

Or so I'm told.

[Lori]

And half the time they are 50% incorrect. Unless it's the other 75% of the time, in which case they are likely to be at least 25% mistaken.

 

Or so I'm told.

My brain hurts after reading that...

 

[cale]

Exactly. And remember, all of those guys (Odomes, Burris, Smith & Winfield) were let go long before Ralph was so publicly complaining about money. I just don't see him making the necessary moves to sign Clements, given his recent, much publicized stance about the woes of small market NFL teams. I am not saying I agree with him at all, just that I have given up any hope of the Bills bringing back Clements.

 

You are correct too (as usual) about the McGee re-signing. If I am not mistaken, when he was re-singned, McGee was coming off an incredible year as a return specialist, and a so-so year as a corner. IIRC, he also had two years left on his deal. TD wanted to re-sign him then, beofore his reputation got so big, he would be tempted to test the free agency market.

 

Donohoe may have had his problems, but manuvering the salary cap wasn't one of them. McGee has been disappointing as a starting corner (I loved him as a nickel back), but he has been consistantly good as a return man. He was worth the extension.

 

As the Bills are so far below the cap already (and it is projcted to go up another 5-7 million this off-season), I am hoping Marv found TD's cliff notes on salary cap managment, and tries to extend Lee Evans before he gets to his final year. As he just played his 3rd year, I am assuming he has two more years left.

 

I would give Losman another year to show his competance, and try to re-sign him before he hits the market as well...and then, there is Willis. What to do about McGahee? If Rosenhaus wants to talk now, I would be open to it, but I wouldn't break the bank to keep him. I like McGahee, but I am not sure he has been that big of an upgrade over what we had before. If he and his agent play hardball, and he stages a holdout, I am not sure that it would bode well for the Bills. McGahee, personally, is a hard guy to get a gauge on. I could see a season of going through the motions, just as much as playing all-out for a big free-agency payoff.

 

As for London Fletcher and Chris Kelsay, I would be delighted to have either back, but only at the right price.

 

I would like for the Bills to resign Clements. But realistically I don't see it happening...There's top cover money and then there's crazy Washington Redskins money or Miami or some other team more than willing to grossly overpay for the privelege. And I do mean "grossly." If that happens I think we're out of the Clements sweepstakes.

 

It'd be different if we were winning and had a guarantee of a successful immediate future...I like Jauron, Levy and what they've done this season. But frankly, there are still some significant questions, next year is Phase 2 of rebuilding. The picture though promising is anything but crystal clear...

 

So if I were Clements I'm looking to leverage my prime income earning years into long term financial bliss or a direct shot at the Super Bowl. Currently the Bills (to me at least) don't offer either.

 

That having been said - I hope the front office finds a way to make it work. Losing him would mean this team will have to overcompensate in other areas ie. will Jauron take McGee off kick return duties since he would then become the de facto No. 1. corner? Clements also has the most ints in the secondary. Does that mean our offense changes the way it plays? I think there'll be a ripple effect thru the team...

 

Anyways, losing Fletcher and/or Clements will impact this team - but perhaps the Bills will get lucky and find talent and experience to overcome either or both those losses...if they do happen...will just have to wait and see....

[Pyrite Gal]

For what it is worth, Jerry Sullivan is on record as saying that Ralph Wilson has verbalized to him that he (RW) does not belive any cornerback is worth the kind of money that it would likely take to re-sign Clements. I know most here hate Sullivan, but I don't think he would have said this (on one of his GR55 segments) unless Wilson actually said it.

 

The only way, as I see it, Nate ends up in a Bills uniform next year, is if the Bills pony up a lot of cash. Two recent interviews I heard with Clements gave me no indication that he had any warm and fuzzy feelings about WNY (he won't give the Bills a "hometown discount"), and every indication that he feels he has earned his big payday, which he will get,

no matter where he has to play.

 

My feeling is, I would absolutely love to have Clements back, but, given the immenent free-agency of guys like Losman, Evans and McGahee, I am not sure it would be wise to make a corner the highest paid player on the team. For whatever the reasons (legit or not), we already know that the Bills will not spend up to the salary cap max. To pay Clements what he is likely to want, would throw the Bills entire salary cap structure out of whack. Not a good way of rebuilding a team.

Mt guess is that what Sullivan says Ralph said is actually worth very little because:

 

1. The theory presented is that Ralph must have given this sentiment to Sullivan as Sully is on the record clearly saying Ralph said this and thus if Sully was simply lying it probably would have big personal (and potentially public) ramifications for his having Ralph as a source. I agree with this logic and guess Ralph did relay this message to Sully. However, just because Ralph said this does not mean that it is at all the way the Bills will operate in contract talks with NC.

 

In fact, if I am having Overdorf and Littman negotiate with NC, i really like having the message out there that the "old man" does not like paying NC a competitive contract at all. Even better, rather than having Ralph go on the record saying this, I have now gotten a Buffalo News reporter to say the "old man" said this. Ralph is a proven good businessman and this statement actually enhances Overdorf's negotiating position as they can say they think NC deserves big bucks but they are getting as much as they can from Ralph and if NC would come to them a little they can make this work.

 

I do not doubt Ralph said this, but it simply does not mean the Bills will be unwilling to make a credible offer to NC.

 

2. I agree that no CB (and in fact no NFL player) is worth the big bucks they receive for playing a boys game, That salaries are insane is not intelligently open to debate. The question is relative value and as far as this goes, Ralph has a legally binding duty under the CBA to distribute a significantly bigger slice of the total revenues to the players.

 

The question in today's NFL is whether such a big contract to NC would allow you to still build a winner given the constraints this contract places on your cap room to acquire other players. My sense is that Ralph is right that NC does not deserve the contract based on what his play does for the real world, but i do not see any player deserving the money and instead it appears that under the escalation of the salary cap, particularly with mamy key high paid positions like QB, LT and even WR locked up longterm, the Bills are in a position to still make a handsome profit even with the big contract to BC.

 

The Bills may decide not pay him the money as they have some other budget for the salary cap hike that must come by agreement in mind. But there would seem to be no mathematical way to claim that they cannot or even will not do this if they want to.

[MDH]

When he retires, Bailey may go down as the best CB of all time.

 

Not even close.

[bills4bowl21]

only a fool would think Nate is actually going to be in a Bills uniform next year

 

he will most likely sign with the Skins for a boat load of money

 

 

exactly

[Bill from NYC]

As for London Fletcher and Chris Kelsay, I would be delighted to have either back, but only at the right price.

 

Two questions:

 

1) Given the new salary cap, exactly what do you consider the "right price?"

 

2) With the Bills said to be 37 million under the cap, why do you care how much we spend on these guys?

 

Do you see what I'm saying? Ralph is probably not going to cough up the cash for Nate because he simply doesn't want to. He has the perfect Coach and GM to do this, because they will be only too happy to draft another first round corner, and perhaps even more (if not exclusively) first day defensive backs.

 

Imo, we are in a position to win in 07. If we keep Nate, grab some OGs, upgrade the LB corps and solidify the DT position with a run stopper, we would rank right up there with almost any team imo. The alternative is to continue to develop first round corners only to let them walk to other teams. This has been our m/o and it has resulted in losses.

I hope it changes, I really do.

[Bill from NYC]

Odomes. Jeff Burris. Thomas Smith. Antoine Winfield. When's the last time the Bills DID extend or re-sign a CB, other than McGee (who was probably re-upped more for his KR skill than his play on defense...)?

 

The thought of McGee and somebody other than Clements starting at corner next season frightens me, but I'm resigning myself to watching it happen.

 

Me too Lori. Do you have any suggestions as to how Marv should address this?

[34-78-83]

Me too Lori. Do you have any suggestions as to how Marv should address this?

 

I do. Pay Nate

 

 

 

[Lori]

Me too Lori. Do you have any suggestions as to how Marv should address this?

Draft another corner #1 next year?

 

*boom*

Oh no, Bill's head just exploded....

 

For what it's worth, Bill, Buffalo's opponent this week has been successful recently even though they have a track record of drafting DBs very high. (McAlister, Reed, Duane Starks in the near past.) They *did* re-up McAlister, though, IIRC.

Guess we'll just have to wait and see with this one -- who knows, maybe Marv will surprise us. (Although if the rumors are true, NC doesn't want to stay...)

[generaLee83]

I don't agree with Bailey being the best, Deion was THE best cover corner but what he called "tackling" was more of a half assed dive to the ground to avoid any real contact. Also, Darrell Green was a great corner back who I would take over Champ. Also, Nate is gone.

 

lol Deion, that's some funny stuff SACTO, appreciate the sarcasm

[BillnutinHouston]

Question: Why would Marv renegotiate with Lindell now yet tell NC that they won't discuss his contract until after the season?

 

Answer: They have already decided to let Nate walk.

[34-78-83]

Question: Why would Marv renegotiate with Lindell now yet tell NC that they won't discuss his contract until after the season?

 

Answer: They have already decided to let Nate walk.

 

Wrong. they both agreed as soon as the season started to not discuss the contract further until the season was over.

 

 

Oh and for some that are looking for some semblance of hope, listen here:

 

Nate and Lee