coltrane34 Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Question: Why do the Bills on 80% of their third and under 4 yards pass the ball out of a spread formation? Answer: ?????????? Bad play calling? They did it three times last sunday, third and short and JP is in the shotgun. They only ran a draw play when it was third and 18 to get into field goal range. Come on at least make it look like its a possibility that you may run the ball. Or better yet line up and run the ball on third and one. This is a pattern that has been repeated all season. By not converting on these third downs the Bills have forced themselves into bad or desperate situations. Many of these situations JP and the offense has been able to overcome. But they would be so much better if they could run to convert third down on some of these drives. In 2006 the bills have converted 58/186 third downs , or roughly 32%. I think the Bills could greatly increase that number just by better playcalling decisions on third downs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricojes Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Question:Why do the Bills on 80% of their third and under 4 yards pass the ball out of a spread formation? Answer: The real answer is no faith in the offensive line. The Bills couldn't make countless critical 3&short's as well as 4th and 1's. The line improved after the re-shuffling, but still did not dominate the line of scrimmage in any games. Both offensive and defensive lines need to be addressed in the off season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyF Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 How about being creative and rolling out or JP running. Hell Chad Pennington had a few 15 yard runs on monday night.... Only 37 rushes all year, and very few recently outside 6 vs. SD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Oh my ! You mean the playcalling can improve ? God forbid someone says such an idea ! by the way I agree ! But when I say it I am attacked for heresy ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 How about being creative and rolling out or JP running. Hell Chad Pennington had a few 15 yard runs on monday night.... Only 37 rushes all year, and very few recently outside 6 vs. SD. that's what I'm saying...On third and 4-7, JP should be able to drop back, and if everyone is covered, he's got the smarts and speed to pick up only a couple of yards...I finally saw the 3 and 5 play from Sunday and he could have EASILY scrambled for those yards...possibly more. I understand keeping him under reigns during the first part of the year and I think he benefitted tremendously from it, but this offseason he needs to re-learn to run IMHO. He's had enough experience now and his wise enough now that he should be able to handle it. Hell, if it means not throwing to a guy 12 yards down field (where there's a possibility of a drive-ending incomplete pass) and rushing for four yards and scampering out of bounds past the marker I'M ALL FOR IT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Question:Why do the Bills on 80% of their third and under 4 yards pass the ball out of a spread formation? Answer: ?????????? Bad play calling? They did it three times last sunday, third and short and JP is in the shotgun. They only ran a draw play when it was third and 18 to get into field goal range. Come on at least make it look like its a possibility that you may run the ball. Or better yet line up and run the ball on third and one. This is a pattern that has been repeated all season. By not converting on these third downs the Bills have forced themselves into bad or desperate situations. Many of these situations JP and the offense has been able to overcome. But they would be so much better if they could run to convert third down on some of these drives. In 2006 the bills have converted 58/186 third downs , or roughly 32%. I think the Bills could greatly increase that number just by better playcalling decisions on third downs. I've had the same feeling this season. Not in all the games mind you but certainly many of them. I'm sure they have their reasons but you're right, you gotta atleast present the thought of a running play to the defense. Willis did convert a 4th and 2 in the Titan's game and got 4 yards, helped by a great pulling block from Gandy. Why they felt they had to go away from that is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 The real answer is no faith in the offensive line. The Bills couldn't make countless critical 3&short's as well as 4th and 1's. The line improved after the re-shuffling, but still did not dominate the line of scrimmage in any games. Both offensive and defensive lines need to be addressed in the off season. I agree. I dont have faith in the Bills running game to be able to consistantly convert a 3rd and 4 by running the ball, and neither does the Bills coaching staff. As much as we want to be able to run on 3rd and 3, I just dont think we will convert as many as we think. I do agree that if we are going to pass, the play calling could be better. While JP rolling out gets him away from the rush and gives him the option of running or throwing, it also limits his field vision and receivers to throw to. Its a catch 22, however it wouldnt hurt to try it every once in a while! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coltrane34 Posted December 27, 2006 Author Share Posted December 27, 2006 Run it again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syhuang Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Oh my ! You mean the playcalling can improve ? God forbid someone says such an idea ! by the way I agree ! But when I say it I am attacked for heresy ! I think many Bills fans agree there're questionable playcalling. However, what people don't agree with you is not because you question playcalling. It is because your comments like following: -------------------------------- I didn't say they would fire Fairchild, but I bet the process of decision making on game turning calls is changed. There may be a committe of Dick Jauron, the OC and the DC and Bobby April. -------------------------------- Yes, bragging rights about a change made in who makes the final decsion on game hinging calls. I wouldn't be surprized if Marv ends up jumping in on those calls. -------------------------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 I think many Bills fans agree there're questionable playcalling. However, what people don't agree with you is not because you question playcalling. It is because your comments like following: Fair enough commentary on playcalling. Here's the thing though--like any other job, you learn as you go. Even if you are an experienced OC, but move to another team, a good OC will analyze the talent in front of him and call plays to their strengths. Games 1-8, we had big problems with the offensive line. Periodic adjustments were made, and the result didn't get much better. As a result, the qb suffers, the defense is on the field more than you would like, and you lose games. During the second half of the season---adjustments were made to the line. Lost in the shuffle of the success of the second half of the season is the reality that this change took guts to make. Why? You could make the arument that the people you had in place were exactly what they were, and that they needed time to gel (in this case, time to gel to be adequate). When you change people around, and assuming they fail---you've now got a coaching staff failing twice to rectify the problem, even though the personell is sub-standard. Bottom line--they made adjustments, took a shot and had some success. They adapted. Play calling issues aside, the hope should be as Fairchild gets more time with the players and develops his systems, he gets better across the board. He sees the Jets/Fins/Pats 2 more times, picks up tendencies, analyzes what worked and what didn't. With luck, they improve the line through FA and the draft, and next year the foundation is better. With luck we open more seams for Willis, shore up pass protection for JP, and the play calling reflects the options that provides the best likelihood of success on third down. I like this coaching staff. Let's hope they improve with age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyF Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 You have to be able to make short yardage on pass plays 70-80% of the time. Quick hite, qb scrambles, an effective TE or back should make it easy.... How we can't even pick up 1 yard in many a situation makes me question, as I've done many a time, the playcalling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 I think many Bills fans agree there're questionable playcalling. However, what people don't agree with you is not because you question playcalling. It is because your comments like following: -------------------------------- I didn't say they would fire Fairchild, but I bet the process of decision making on game turning calls is changed. There may be a committe of Dick Jauron, the OC and the DC and Bobby April. -------------------------------- Yes, bragging rights about a change made in who makes the final decsion on game hinging calls. I wouldn't be surprized if Marv ends up jumping in on those calls. -------------------------------- People need to relax. If that gets someone riled up they have too much starch in their underwear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Question:Why do the Bills on 80% of their third and under 4 yards pass the ball out of a spread formation? Answer: ?????????? Bad play calling? They did it three times last sunday, third and short and JP is in the shotgun. They only ran a draw play when it was third and 18 to get into field goal range. Come on at least make it look like its a possibility that you may run the ball. Or better yet line up and run the ball on third and one. This is a pattern that has been repeated all season. By not converting on these third downs the Bills have forced themselves into bad or desperate situations. Many of these situations JP and the offense has been able to overcome. But they would be so much better if they could run to convert third down on some of these drives. In 2006 the bills have converted 58/186 third downs , or roughly 32%. I think the Bills could greatly increase that number just by better playcalling decisions on third downs. If the three passes weren't all tipped at the LOS, they might very well have succeeded. They would really like to get the ball in Roscoe's hands on third down, and since Roscoe is such a small target, the pass comes out low making it easier to block. Same goes for the vertically challenged Josh Reed, who was the intended target in the endzone on the other 3rd down pass that was blocked. I don't have a problem with the spread formation, but the incompletions to Roscoe on third down are starting to pile up. This offense would be lights out with a really good tight end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 I also would like to see A-Train get the ball more on Third and short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coltrane34 Posted December 28, 2006 Author Share Posted December 28, 2006 I'm more concerned about hididng tendancies. Once opposing teams see that you can't run to convert short yardages, they just drop back into coverage or blitz the QB. Teams have to be able to at least OB sneek it for one yard, or have a back that can put his head down and get one or two yards. Thats why I thought a-train was brought in, to get the short tough yards. Now imagine lining up on third and short with a-train in the backfield and running it some times, and using the pass or playaction other times. The defense would have so much more trouble scheming against it. It would also take a lot of pressure off of JP who has had to pull some long third down conversions out of his arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 I've had the same feeling this season. Not in all the games mind you but certainly many of them. I'm sure they have their reasons but you're right, you gotta atleast present the thought of a running play to the defense. Willis did convert a 4th and 2 in the Titan's game and got 4 yards, helped by a great pulling block from Gandy. Why they felt they had to go away from that is beyond me. On 3rd and 1 and 2, why don't we line up both Thomas and Mcgahee in the back field and then have Losman run a naked boot leg.....I am sure that will keep the opposing team guessing..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyF Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 On 3rd and 1 and 2, why don't we line up both Thomas and Mcgahee in the back field and then have Losman run a naked boot leg.....I am sure that will keep the opposing team guessing..... Again a decent play call we never use.... We have a supposed mobile QB and don't use his legs at all.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 People need to relax. If that gets someone riled up they have too much starch in their underwear. You said some stupid things and people called you on it. I didn't see anybody getting riled up in that thread. I think you mistook people laughing at inane comments as getting "riled up." Btw, nobody said that the playcalling couldn't improve. I said it in that thread too. There is a difference between saying the playcalling can improve and the playcalling is the "reason" the Bills lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePebble19 Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 Again a decent play call we never use.... We have a supposed mobile QB and don't use his legs at all.... Fully agreed...I think teams in general now are trying to harness that QB running game as to make them better pocket passers...You can't harness a Mike Vick, Vince Young, or even a J.P. Losman. You have to let them play to their strengths and give them the confidence that you are behind the decision to tuck it and run if all else fails. So many teams seem to just like their QBs to sit in the pocket, and it is just plain dumb when you have someone as athletic as JP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike formerly from Florida Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 The real answer is no faith in the offensive line. The Bills couldn't make countless critical 3&short's as well as 4th and 1's. The line improved after the re-shuffling, but still did not dominate the line of scrimmage in any games. Both offensive and defensive lines need to be addressed in the off season. Exactamundo! But, I would like to see JP roll out more and use his running ability. How many first downs did Jeff Garcia get on his own in Dallas. I kept wondering, "Why can't we do that?" Is it me, or is JP not as fast as we thought he was? How many times do we see DLman track him down or get a hit on him (before he escapes)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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