Tux of Borg Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 Do you feel Ali is indeed the best figher ever, or was he simply a great fighter that gained legendary status from his actions outside the ring?
SDS Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 I grew up during the tail end of his career. He was larger than life. I can remember doing the "fly like a butterfly, sting like a bee" routine when I was 5 or younger. I haven't seen enough boxers to declare how good he was compared to all fighters in history, so I defer to those who know better. I was a Sugar Ray Leonard guy myself. The guy won a lot of belts in a lot of classes... Always carried himself with class.
MadBuffaloDisease Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 Well, if you can't remember that it was "float like a butterfly..."
SDS Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 Well, if you can't remember that it was "float like a butterfly..." 878153[/snapback] Hey, I was 5 and got it wrong... sue me.
BoondckCL Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 Do you feel Ali is indeed the best figher ever, or was he simply a great fighter that gained legendary status from his actions outside the ring? 878124[/snapback] The general consensus seems to believe that he is the best, i've seen a few fights but i think a lot of people fell in love with the pizaz and flash of the character outside the ring. It is tough to rank boxers in one category since there are different weight classes, but if we are ranking based on best fighter, i'll give it a shot. I haven't seen too many fighters, but i know the guys that are impressive fighters and guys that have caught my eye. Surely Ali is up there, but there are a few others. No particular order... Joe Frazier Muhammad Ali Sonny Liston Rocky Marciano Mike Tyson Floyd Maywheather Jake LaMotta Evander Holyfield Bernard Hopkins Lennox Lewis Tommy Herns I would say, based on personal opinion, that Joe Frazier is the best of all time. No question based on what i have seen. The guy boxing now that you should watch is Floyd Maywheather. Guy is a !@#$ing beast. Pure combination of power and speed. He's willing to get in close to you, make you feel like you have a shot, let's you pull the trigger, he dodges, and makes you pay tremendously for your mistake. Watch Maywheather vs. Gatti on Pay Per View, he absolutely destroys to fan favorite.
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 What are you my dad? HE lives for this conversation! He claims Ali was all hype... That he fought all old boxers on his rise to the top...
BoondckCL Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 What are you my dad? HE lives for this conversation! He claims Ali was all hype... That he fought all old boxers on his rise to the top... 878204[/snapback] It is something to be argued, but then you come back with who are these present boxers fighting? All the good athletes are becoming football, basketball, and baseball players due to the money. Just a fact of life. But, i think if you put Ali against Frazier early on in Frazier's career, Frazier would have mopped the floor with Ali. In the 15th round of one of the fights, he took down Ali, and that was the real Joe Frazier that Ali should've fought, and should've lost to all three times he fought Frazier.
Dante Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 Ali was overrated and even won some very questionable decisions in the second half of his career. Post Vietnam that is. All of you are wrong on the best fighter of all time. Marvin Hagler was without a doubt, the most complete fighter Ive ever seen.
BoondckCL Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 Ali was overrated and even won some very questionable decisions in the second half of his career. Post Vietnam that is. All of you are wrong on the best fighter of all time. Marvin Hagler was without a doubt, the most complete fighter Ive ever seen. 878209[/snapback] Maywheather is a smaller guy, light weight, but he is the complete package by today's standards.
X. Benedict Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 Over-hyped but not underrated. Foreman, Frazier, and Norton were all great fighters.
Cugalabanza Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 Pound for pound, best ever... stick & move, stick & move...
smokinandjokin Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 Ali spent three years in the thick of his prime in prison. He was not the same fighter when he got out...Three years older and a bit sluggish. Pre-jail, Ali was the complete package of size, strength, speed, and charisma that no heavyweight champion has ever possessed. Some were as strong, some were as fast...but nobody had the combination of talents that Ali had. I don't think it's fair to say that Ali's antics outside the ring diminish his performances inside the ring. All of that stuff combined IS his performance. People go to fights and watch fights on TV to be entertained, and Ali was the best in that regard. Anyone who questions Ali's heart, desire, toughness, or ability and says that he was all showmanship needs to sit down and watch every second of the Thrilla in Manila. There's no way a guy who was all hype would outlast powerful Joe Frazier for 14 rounds in 100-degree heat in the Philippines. Look at Ali on his stool in between the 14th and 15th rounds, when Frazier throws in the towel. Ali was totally exhausted and nearly defeated. And he was going to go out there for one more round. Ready and willing to go? Probably not. But he was going to. More style than substance? No way. Style would've quit in the 7th round the way Frazier was hitting him.
ieatcrayonz Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 I was a Sugar Ray Leonard guy myself. The guy won a lot of belts in a lot of classes... Always carried himself with class. 878131[/snapback] Leonard was very good, especially when he was overmatched against Marvelous Marvin Hearns but invented the rope a dope to beat him. Leonard was not the best, nor was Ali. The top three were Sugar Ray ROBINSON, Floyd Patterson, and Joe Louis. In that order.
ajzepp Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 All of you are wrong on the best fighter of all time. Marvin Hagler was without a doubt, the most complete fighter Ive ever seen. 878209[/snapback] I remember watching Hagler/Hearns back in the 80's....awesome fight! Totally got me fired up for the middleweights. He and Foreman are my favorite fighters.
bbb Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 Ali spent three years in the thick of his prime in prison. He was not the same fighter when he got out...Three years older and a bit sluggish. Pre-jail, Ali was the complete package of size, strength, speed, and charisma that no heavyweight champion has ever possessed. Some were as strong, some were as fast...but nobody had the combination of talents that Ali had. I don't think it's fair to say that Ali's antics outside the ring diminish his performances inside the ring. All of that stuff combined IS his performance. People go to fights and watch fights on TV to be entertained, and Ali was the best in that regard. Anyone who questions Ali's heart, desire, toughness, or ability and says that he was all showmanship needs to sit down and watch every second of the Thrilla in Manila. There's no way a guy who was all hype would outlast powerful Joe Frazier for 14 rounds in 100-degree heat in the Philippines. Look at Ali on his stool in between the 14th and 15th rounds, when Frazier throws in the towel. Ali was totally exhausted and nearly defeated. And he was going to go out there for one more round. Ready and willing to go? Probably not. But he was going to. More style than substance? No way. Style would've quit in the 7th round the way Frazier was hitting him. 878274[/snapback] Ali never went to jail for three years. He was banned for three years.........ESPN just had the thrilla on a few weeks ago, and I taped it, so you got me real psyched to watch it now. I think that if he had quit in the 7th, he would not be the way he is today.
smokinandjokin Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 Ali never went to jail for three years. He was banned for three years.........ESPN just had the thrilla on a few weeks ago, and I taped it, so you got me real psyched to watch it now. I think that if he had quit in the 7th, he would not be the way he is today. 878509[/snapback] Yes correct, he was sentenced to prison but never served due to the appeals process. He was, however, banned from fighting for three years when he was 25 years old, and had a record of 29-0. The Thrilla was incredible, two worthy champs hammering on each other. No doubt about Ali's current mental health...In fact, I would say the three Frazier-Ali fights are the reason that the sport no longer goes 15 rounds, and now max out at 12. The damage done in those last three rounds can be seen today in the diminished state of fighters from that era. NOTE- The 2nd of the 3 Frazier-Ali fights was only 12 rounds, in MSG, but it was just as brutal as the other two.
R. Rich Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 Leonard was very good, especially when he was overmatched against Marvelous Marvin Hearns but invented the rope a dope to beat him. Leonard was not the best, nor was Ali. The top three were Sugar Ray ROBINSON, Floyd Patterson, and Joe Louis. In that order. 878300[/snapback] Robinson is the best of all time, regardless of weight class. I'd put Ali 2nd, then I may even put Jack Johnson ahead of Louis. Both were dominant champions, so you can't go wrong w/ either Johnson or Louis. Patterson? I'd take Gene Tunney over Patterson. I do like Hagler though. He was just awesome and I still feel that he beat Leonard in that fight. That Marvelous Marvin Hearns was a baad mofo as well.
R. Rich Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 Anyone who questions Ali's heart, desire, toughness, or ability and says that he was all showmanship needs to sit down and watch every second of the Thrilla in Manila. There's no way a guy who was all hype would outlast powerful Joe Frazier for 14 rounds in 100-degree heat in the Philippines. Look at Ali on his stool in between the 14th and 15th rounds, when Frazier throws in the towel. Ali was totally exhausted and nearly defeated. And he was going to go out there for one more round. Ready and willing to go? Probably not. But he was going to. More style than substance? No way. Style would've quit in the 7th round the way Frazier was hitting him. 878274[/snapback] Anyone stupid enough to question Ali's heart should research his fight w/ Ken Norton, where he fought most of that fight w/ a quarter inch separation in his jaw. Yeah, the guy had no heart.
Alaska Darin Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 Joe Louis would have wiped the canvas with Ali. If Ali tried the "rope-a-dope", Louis would have broken his arms. Louis, in his prime, was a better finisher than Tyson. Best heavyweight of all time. The best of all time period is Ray Robinson - and it's not even close.
Alaska Darin Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 I would say, based on personal opinion, that Joe Frazier is the best of all time. 878202[/snapback] The best of all time doesn't get knocked out in the second round while at the prime of his career. A case can be made that there are 10 HEAVYWEIGHTS better than Frazier. Joltin' Joe had a ton of character and heart but at under 6' tall, he'd have had a hell of a time against a bevy of the heavyweights before or since.
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