dave mcbride Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/big...nd20raiders.jpg I like Lindell a lot, but "coward" is the word that comes to mind.
The Jokeman Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/big...nd20raiders.jpgI like Lindell a lot, but "coward" is the word that comes to mind. 878067[/snapback] You'd rather Lindell state after the game that he thought Jauron was wrong? I personally think the decision was a bad one as to playing the percentages I think there was a greater percentage we'd hit that field goal yesterday then getting the first down.
dave mcbride Posted December 26, 2006 Author Posted December 26, 2006 You'd rather Lindell state after the game that he thought Jauron was wrong? I personally think the decision was a bad one as to playing the percentages I think there was a greater percentage we'd hit that field goal yesterday then getting the first down. 878072[/snapback] Maybe I'm putting too much into what RL said afterwards, and if I am, I apologize. I just felt like it was a bad decision all around, and I guess I'm not quite sure who to blame. Basically, though, playing the percentages, trying to kick the FG would have been the path that offered the greatest chance of success.
Kelly the Dog Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/big...nd20raiders.jpgI like Lindell a lot, but "coward" is the word that comes to mind. 878067[/snapback] That FG in the snow was 20 times easier than a 45 yarder into that wind yesterday. They had determined the ball could go at most 42 yards. Bironas kicked one that went 42 yards. No punt even went 42 yards. Lindell said he would have been able to reach 2 out of 10 tries and that doesn't even count if the wind would have blown the ball sideways. There is a better than 20% chance IMO of picking up 5 yards, especially the way the offense was playing. Not much, but a better chance. It was the right call.
dave mcbride Posted December 26, 2006 Author Posted December 26, 2006 That FG in the snow was 20 times easier than a 45 yarder into that wind yesterday. They had determined the ball could go at most 42 yards. Bironas kicked one that went 42 yards. No punt even went 42 yards. Lindell said he would have been able to reach 2 out of 10 tries and that doesn't even count if the wind would have blown the ball sideways. There is a better than 20% chance IMO of picking up 5 yards, especially the way the offense was playing. Not much, but a better chance. It was the right call. 878077[/snapback] You're joking, right? In a game in which FG kickers went 8 for 8??? Please ...
JimBob2232 Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 Listen, I was there. I can accept not kicking the FG. What I cannot accept is the complete lack of a plan on that drive. If the decision is "we are too far out for a FG, we need a first down", then you do not run the 3rd down play we ran, and certainly you dont run the 4th down play we ran to pick up the 5 yards needed. Lindell and Moorman were running on the field, then called back. THERE WAS NO PLAN. An absolute disgrace by the coaching staff there. Personally, I would have perfered trying the FG. But it would have been a VERY tough FG given the conditions. But given the fact that the coaches evidently were not going to try a FG without another first down, they play calling and organization of the drive was HORRENDOUS.
Kelly the Dog Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 You're joking, right? In a game in which FG kickers went 8 for 8??? Please ... 878083[/snapback] Not joking at all. So are you telling me that if you're a head coach, in these game conditions, and before the game your special teams coach (the best in the game) and kicker (one of the best in the game) tell you their limit is 42 yards. You see 5 PUNTS into the wind and none travel 40 yards, and then you ask your kicker if he can make it from 45 and he says no, you would say "Field goal team!" and get them on the field to try it?
JM57 Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 You're joking, right? In a game in which FG kickers went 8 for 8??? Please ... 878083[/snapback] Bironas has a stronger leg than Lindell. (Lindell would never make a 60 yard kick without a 20mph wind at his back). Bironas BARELY squeaked in a 42 yarder earlier in the game, kicking into the wind. Tell me how Lindell, with his weaker leg, and ever weaker late-game history, would have been able to punch through a 45 yarder?
Mikie2times Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 How can people still be pissed about this? This isn't Tin Cup. We had a 40% chance or more at converting the 4th down. NE had no choice but to kick that FG. The ONLY alternative for NE was a Hail Mary. AV gave it his best shot and made an incredible kick. If NE had as strong an out as we did no way does AV tell BB he can make that kick, and if he did BB wouldn’t have let him anyway.
SDS Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 THERE WAS NO PLAN. An absolute disgrace by the coaching staff there. 878093[/snapback] The last time the Bills blew the last offensive series in a game as badly as this - Drew Bledsoe was holding his head in his hands after throwing it away on 4th down.
Stussy109 Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 If they sent him out there to kick the ball, it was a guaranteed loss. I watched all the pregame kicking, he had less than 5% chance of hitting that, the ball would have been at least 5 yards short. He kicked about 4 that i saw from that distance and not one of them had the range, for all you people who were disgusted with the 4th and 5 call. A FG had zero chance, lindell said it himself without saying it.
Koufax Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 It would have been a low percentage kick and depended on moment to moment wind gusts. 2nd and 6 I'd rather try to get the first down. I was disappointed with 2nd down and 3rd down, and they should have known before 3rd what they would try or not to avoid the confusion and give JP a better chance to get 5, but it happened as it happened, and it is time to move on and get ready for Baltimore then 2007. The Vinitieri kick has nothing to do with this kick. That was harder elements to get the kick off well, but had no effect on the flight of the kick. Sunday had nothing to do with getting off the kick well, but the chance that a well kicked ball would not go through the uprights because it came up short or was blown off course. Take a look at the Ten 42 yarder on the Buffalo Bills Cam at buffalobills.com. It is right behind the goalposts and shows that kick get absolutely hammered down at the last second and barely clear it. This from a guy with a 60yd gamewinner leg. Plus if Rian tried the very unlikely kick and missed he gets run out of town wrongly (this kick plus the Steelers one). The right call not to kick. Probably not the right call on 2nd, 3rd, and 4th in the process, but I think that not kicking was the way to go.
Ozymandius Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 You're joking, right? In a game in which FG kickers went 8 for 8??? Please ... 878083[/snapback] That's a spurious point. How many of those were 45 yard kicks into the wind? And 5 of those 8 field goals were 30 yards or less. C'mon now.
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 Not joking at all. So are you telling me that if you're a head coach, in these game conditions, and before the game your special teams coach (the best in the game) and kicker (one of the best in the game) tell you their limit is 42 yards. You see 5 PUNTS into the wind and none travel 40 yards, and then you ask your kicker if he can make it from 45 and he says no, you would say "Field goal team!" and get them on the field to try it? 878104[/snapback] This wasn't gonna be a kick that was 15 yards off that 42 yard "threshold"... It was 3 freaking yards (nine feet more)... Anything could have happened... Heck, there might have even been a point where the wind died down for a second... Who knows?... I guess we will never know... But, to give hard and fast numbers like "42 yards" and be within 3 yards of that seems foolish not to take the chance. What blows my mind is that the coaching staff and Lindell are giving exact numbers for a situation that is far from being exact and is very variable: the weather... Nine friggan feet... So JP throws a rush job "Hail Mary"... Because Jauron didn't have the common sense to think that anything can happen when you are talking about an extra nine feet... Heck first down would have taken 15 feet! This is one time where the "smart" headcoach out thought himself! What a dolt!... Wonder why they kicked him out of Chicago! Nine friggan feet...
dave mcbride Posted December 26, 2006 Author Posted December 26, 2006 If they sent him out there to kick the ball, it was a guaranteed loss. I watched all the pregame kicking, he had less than 5% chance of hitting that, the ball would have been at least 5 yards short. He kicked about 4 that i saw from that distance and not one of them had the range, for all you people who were disgusted with the 4th and 5 call. A FG had zero chance, lindell said it himself without saying it. 878145[/snapback] Thanks - I guess I stand corrected. Still, 45 yards isn't impossible. It's not as if he was playing in hurricane conditions.
marauderswr80 Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/big...nd20raiders.jpgI like Lindell a lot, but "coward" is the word that comes to mind. 878067[/snapback] That fieldgoal that Vinateri hit was not a very long field goal. Lindells would have been around 40 yards away. Bironas who has a way stronger leg then Lindell barely made a 24 yarder..... Id rather have a kicker be honest then a kicker to lie and totally miss the field goal by 10 yards cause trust that ball would have never made the endzone if Lindell kicked it
Lurker Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/big...nd20raiders.jpgI like Lindell a lot, but "coward" is the word that comes to mind. 878067[/snapback] What's the point of your picture? That snow is tougher to kick in than a 25 MPH wind? Based on the games I've seen at the Ralph, I'd take snow over wind any day...
Lurker Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 Nine friggan feet... 878216[/snapback] Tell that to Scotty Norwood...
dave mcbride Posted December 26, 2006 Author Posted December 26, 2006 the point of the picture was that it was a very, very difficult 45 yard kick. also, for those who don't remember, it was practically a blizzard, not a light snowfall. it's not for nothing that that is now regarded as perhaps the greatest kick in nfl history. please don't try and argue that a 45 yarder in sunny, 40 degree weather into a 20 mph wind (at best) was more difficult than AV's. Also, christie's 48 yard game winner against NE in 1999 in a howling rainstorm tells me that some kickers rise to the occasion. Lindell chose not to, and that wasn't unreasonable. the bills still had a lot of time, and 4th and 5 isn't an insurmountable down/distance situation. i, however, would have elected to kick the field goal.
CFLstyle Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 Listen, I was there. I can accept not kicking the FG. What I cannot accept is the complete lack of a plan on that drive. If the decision is "we are too far out for a FG, we need a first down", then you do not run the 3rd down play we ran, and certainly you dont run the 4th down play we ran to pick up the 5 yards needed. Lindell and Moorman were running on the field, then called back. THERE WAS NO PLAN. An absolute disgrace by the coaching staff there. Personally, I would have perfered trying the FG. But it would have been a VERY tough FG given the conditions. But given the fact that the coaches evidently were not going to try a FG without another first down, they play calling and organization of the drive was HORRENDOUS. 878093[/snapback] This is what I feel is the right answer. There's little question in my mind that the Bills should have gone for it, 4th and 5 isn't an impossible conversion to make as some are making it out to be. They had no chance of converting because there was no gameplanning there, Losman got the snap off with a second left on the play clock because the coaches couldn't figure out what the hell to do.
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