The Big Cat Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 JP has struggled behind this line and been sacked often, and it took a big reshuffling stressing pass protection to get him back on track. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Pennington, and I hope Fowler holds down that position until someone else is ready to step in, but our line is one good, one average, and three below average players. Watch a game (or Tivo, etc), and try watching just Pennington and Preston. We don't run right, and there is a reason for it. Preston is the weakest link right now, and will be replaced as starter this offseason. Pennington and Gandy will rock/scissors/paper to see who is #2 in line to be replaced, with Pennington having the youth and size advantage going for him. Congratulations to the line for picking up the pieces after our three game losing streak, but please realize that it is not a good line. Willis was much better than A-Train behind this line, but I am pleased with A-Train's performance and am happy to have him as a #2 back. Corey Dillon had a much better line than this, and Barry Sanders practically played independently from his line, and is the single greatest talent any team has ever had in terms of creative agility to gain yards when there are no big holes to run through. WM might not be here in 2008. But showed a ton of guts this year, is a good back, and is our guy in 2007. We have no more RB controversy than we have QB controversy. He will do better next year with better health likely, with a better line stabilized, and a more mature passing attack. I think after next year if he goes somewhere else we will have "must sign WM" threads and we will be sad when if he leaves. 877963[/snapback] I guess my belief is that if Willis was a top 15 back he would have ability to make something out of nothing. If on 10 runs the line gives him ample support 3 times, then during those other 7 runs, it's on him to make something out of nothing. On a good day, Willis will make something from nothing 2 out of 7 times, and I gotta believe that an "elite" back, or at the very least the back we all expect and hope Willis to be, makes plays twice as many times (4/7 garbage plays). These numbers mean nothing aside from a way to numerically present my opinion, but at the end of the day Willis, line or no line, makes plays 4/10 runs and that DOES NOT make him irreplaceable in the draft and certainly doesn't free up RB as a lockdown position during the offseason.
apuszczalowski Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 everyone expects Willis to be LT and that isn't going to happen. Also, right now, he only runs to one side and teams no that because the right side is too inexperienced to handle a full load of running plays right now. Its like earlier when JP was being forced to stay in the pocket and not run. They are simplifying things for the right side to get them used to their position before they start taking the reins off of them and hopefully it works out as well as it did for JP
Tortured Soul Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 everyone expects Willis to be LT and that isn't going to happen. Also, right now, he only runs to one side and teams no that because the right side is too inexperienced to handle a full load of running plays right now. Its like earlier when JP was being forced to stay in the pocket and not run. They are simplifying things for the right side to get them used to their position before they start taking the reins off of them and hopefully it works out as well as it did for JP 877974[/snapback] There are plenty of things in between Willis and LT. Willis' YPC this season is 3.9. For his career, it's 3.9. It's almost time we acknowledge what kind of player he is and that is in the bottom half of running backs in the league.
Mikie2times Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 Oh my sweet Jesus I am sick of hearing this!!! How has JP done behind this line? How much better was Willis than A-Train behind this line? How was Corey Dillon behind his line in Cincy? How was Barry Sanders? The list goes on and on. STOP BLAMING THE OLINE! 877913[/snapback] I'll tell you what I'm sick of hearing, people that don't make any connection to running backs and run blocking. Perhaps Edge could explain the correlation to you. These black and white arguments with players have no place in a team sport. As for your examples JP has no relevance to this debate. Pass blocking and run blocking are two completely different animals. Willis has been significantly better then A-Train if you compare the numbers with run defense SOS. I can link the posts in which I did this if you like, or you can just look at the raw numbers without context. Corey Dillion was one of, if not the best RB's in football for Cincinnati several years in a row. Throwing that aside what perspectives can you add concerning the Bengals run blocking then? The fact that they were a bad team tells us nothing about how they run block. Your final candidate is one of the top 5 RB's off all time. Has anybody even said Willis is top 5 in the NFL right now?
bluv Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 Stop fondling your McGahee jersey for one second... and keep this in mind: The Titans came into yesterday's game with 30th ranked rush defense in the NFL. It's not like Buffalo was significantly worse. At some point, the excuses have to stop. 877947[/snapback] You act like WM carried the ball 20 times averaging less than 2 yards a pop. If you rush for 95 yards on 22 carries, numerous catches, no fumbles and your offense puts up 29 points, how can you blame the RB and act like he had a bad game? Some on this board just like to use a loss to bash players that they hate; NO MATTER how they played!
John from Riverside Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 The problem I have with our line at this point is BALANCE when it comes to running.... The pass protection has improved greatly.....but if we aren't running behind gandy and peters.....we arent going anywhere..... To get everything possible out of Magehee we need to improve the RG position to a run blocking mauler...... I am happy with Pennington
generaLee83 Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 McGahee isn't a home run because his first step isn't explosive enough. 877811[/snapback] I think that this observation is very accurate. He often takes the handoff and has a split second of hesitation which often times leads to less then desirable gains. Other backs get the handoff and accelerate quickly while making the decision to make a cut or hammer straight ahead. It could be this split second lapse in judgment that keeps him at 'good' rather than 'amazing'.
Boatdrinks Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 Would you guys be interested in trading for Travis Henry? 877852[/snapback] Not a chance. Is there no statutory rape in TEN? Anyhow, I'd trade our OL for yours in a New York minute. TH has room to run due tio good run blocking and the presence of Vince Young. Behind Buffalo's OL, well he's just another Joe.
YOOOOOO Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 Not a chance. Is there no statutory rape in TEN? Anyhow, I'd trade our OL for yours in a New York minute. TH has room to run due tio good run blocking and the presence of Vince Young. Behind Buffalo's OL, well he's just another Joe. 878406[/snapback] I'll tell you this....Henry makes yards on his own consistently, punishing/bouncing off would be tacklers....thats something Willis doesnt do consistently(he did when he was in competition with Henry&college) but since then it seems like he plays not to get hurt... Thats my only beef I have with Mcgahee....give me that drop your shoulder/punish the defender type back he was in college over this new stay away from the injury Mcgahee
Mike formerly from Florida Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 The problem I have with our line at this point is BALANCE when it comes to running.... The pass protection has improved greatly.....but if we aren't running behind gandy and peters.....we arent going anywhere..... To get everything possible out of Magehee we need to improve the RG position to a run blocking mauler...... I am happy with Pennington 878179[/snapback] Exactly. We need run blockers. There were very few holes open this year for Willis to break. Willis, I thought, did good job of punishing tacklers for the extra yards. Nope, Willis is not the problem. Draft a solid guard to replace Preston. Reyes will be back next year to replace Gandy--a slight upgrade, but one nevertheless. Anybody watch Philly yesterday? Their line was the difference in that game. Westbrook wasn't touched until he was five yards downfield. Upgrade this line, draft a tall receiver and you won't have to worry about the defense wearing down.
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 Anybody watch Philly yesterday? Their line was the difference in that game. Westbrook wasn't touched until he was five yards downfield. Upgrade this line, draft a tall receiver and you won't have to worry about the defense wearing down. 878424[/snapback] Great example with Westbrook. Westbrook never ran for 1000 yards and was always kind of the forgotten man in phillys success, but he's having a career year rushing behind the eagles massive offensive line. Everyone on that line is well over 320lbs and can move, and move people out of the way. Good in pass protection and great run blocking. Not suprised westbrooks carries have increased his yards rushing tds and ypc are all career highs, while at the same time still as dangerous as ever as a receiving back. If we can get a line like that we'd have great success running the ball.
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 Stop fondling your McGahee jersey for one second... and keep this in mind: The Titans came into yesterday's game with 30th ranked rush defense in the NFL. It's not like Buffalo was significantly worse. At some point, the excuses have to stop. 877947[/snapback] And we passed it on crucial third-and-short situations that could have kept the game going. And we also passed when we had a lead and could have put it away with a time-consuming drive. The Titans knew what they were doing. We have a rookie OC who is learning as much as the rest of them.
Dawgg Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 Totally agree... the playcalling with the lead was very pass-happy and it didn't help things. I still think finding another RB should be a priority. Take Atlanta for example. They found Jerrious Norwood in the 3rd round. While Dunn is still the undisputed starter, Norwood has single-handedly won games for them. Pittsburgh won the Super Bowl with Willie Parker and Bettis. Carolina's rushing offense has flourished with a 2-headed attack. Same with New England and Dallas. There are only a few RBs in this league that can carry the ENTIRE load by themselves, IMO: LJ, LT and Shaun Alexander. Another capable RB gives the team fresh legs in the 4th quarter, pushes McGahee to play hard, and gives us versatility. And we passed it on crucial third-and-short situations that could have kept the game going. And we also passed when we had a lead and could have put it away with a time-consuming drive. The Titans knew what they were doing. We have a rookie OC who is learning as much as the rest of them. 878433[/snapback]
marauderswr80 Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 Adrian Peterson from Oklahoma! hes a beast that runs with a purpose!
makbeer Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 Totally agree... the playcalling with the lead was very pass-happy and it didn't help things. I still think finding another RB should be a priority. Take Atlanta for example. They found Jerrious Norwood in the 3rd round. While Dunn is still the undisputed starter, Norwood has single-handedly won games for them. Pittsburgh won the Super Bowl with Willie Parker and Bettis. Carolina's rushing offense has flourished with a 2-headed attack. Same with New England and Dallas. There are only a few RBs in this league that can carry the ENTIRE load by themselves, IMO: LJ, LT and Shaun Alexander. Another capable RB gives the team fresh legs in the 4th quarter, pushes McGahee to play hard, and gives us versatility. 878443[/snapback] While we disagree on a lot, I DO agree that another RB would be a blessing. Travis AND Willis would have been an awesome duo. You can see that the coaching staff for some reason lost confidence in the A-Train, he stopped getting carries even though Willis was fighting through injuries and flu blugs. Also, makes me question the decision to drop Lionel Gates..I really liked how that kid ran the ball.
deep2evans Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 Adrian Peterson from Oklahoma! hes a beast that runs with a purpose! 878447[/snapback] he's goin top 5
LabattBlue Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 Before you judge Willis, Id like to see him run behind a good line.... I think Willis is a very good RB. Our O line is crap.... 877825[/snapback] This is the same crap we heard about DB during his stay here. The bottom line is that the Bills have a straight ahead style runner who can't make anyone miss and doesn't have the beef or the willingness to run through tacklers.
marauderswr80 Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 he's goin top 5 878464[/snapback] Top 5? I dont know....I guess he could....Maybe the Lions....
deep2evans Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 Top 5? I dont know....I guess he could....Maybe the Lions.... 878469[/snapback] regardless of where he goes, hes going to be unbelievable. injury prone guy in college who didnt quite prove how good he is and will into the pros. think a better frank gore. no way he gets out of the top 10. I'll say #5 to Houston
billrooter Posted December 27, 2006 Posted December 27, 2006 I have been thinking all year that i want a running back in the 5"9 to 5"10 range that is a quick guy (great speed a bonus) 210-220. Remind you of anyone, like maybe all the great backs in league history bar a few. Someone who can catch it out of the backfield and is a master at screen passes it would help out jp so much not too mention the abillity to split him out occassionally like thurman was used. I guess i want a slasher or a guy that can actually read blocks, i say like most keep Mcgahee for his contract year and if a rb is available 3rd round or later in the upcoming draft they think might be a good bargain jump on it!
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