Buftex Posted December 25, 2006 Posted December 25, 2006 I would have been pissed had he trotted Lindell out there and his kick fell 10 yards short. I knew when they started that drive that they were going to have to get inside the 20 before they had a realistic shot at a FG. I have no clue how anybody has a problem with the decision. 877080[/snapback] You see, that is the big problem. There is nothing wrong with going for it, on 4th and 5, with an unpredictable wind. Like you said, you knew the Bills would need the ball inside the 20 to have a realistic shot of converting a field goal. You know it, Rian Lindell appears to have known it, but why doesn't Dick Jauron or Steve Fairchild realize this? If they knew this, and knew it when the drive started (which you would hope they would have), why weren't they calling plays that were designed to get the Ball inside the 20? On third and 5, JP is in the shotgun, tossing the ball downfield, rather than trying to get a first down. It looked almost like the Bills coaching staff couldn't make up their minds as to what was more important: leaving too much time on the clock for the Titans to comeback, or getting into field goal range. They just seemed to lose sight as to what constituted field goal range. The play calling really left a lot to be desired on the final drive. It did not seem thought out at all. I really am a fan of Dick Jauron, and wanted him to be the Bills head coach when Gregg Williams was fired. I must say though, as great a job as he seems to be doing (and he has) his game day, pressure time decision making is really leaving me dumbfounded this year. It is almost as if he has taken the "too conservative" criticisms too personaly, and chooses the oddest times to prove his detractors wrong. One second left in the first half, going for the hail mary, that is a good time to chuck your conservative tendancies...a game winning drive, potential playoff spot on the line, he should have trusted his more conervative tendancies. It is too bad. I thought, offensively, the Bills played very well today. JP Losman has become a very good NFL QB, just when I was thinking it wasn't going to happen for him. Peerless Price played his ass off today, and is starting to look like a team leader. Lee Evans continues to impress, and Willis McGahee ran with energy today. I think the playcalling, save the final drive, was excellent today.
Stenbar Posted December 25, 2006 Posted December 25, 2006 I live in Toronto and there isn't any right now or while the game was on, but I'm not disputing that it was windy. Just not windy enough to abandon the kicking game at the end. 877136[/snapback] I was at the game and I can tell you there is not a chance in hell he makes that fieldgoal. All kicks pregame and at the half from that side of the field were falling short from 40 yards out > End of story..The problem with the game was as follows... 1: Our pathetic run defense 2:Takeo Spikes getting run over by Henry 5 times 3: Robert Royal not getting his feet in bounds in the endzone 4:Not getting the play call in quicker on the Bills final possesion on 4th down. 5: Vince Young..My God is he a freakin good qb or what...
Buftex Posted December 25, 2006 Posted December 25, 2006 5: Vince Young..My God is he a freakin good qb or what... 877452[/snapback] Watch it...that kind of talk isn't appreciated around here...
Stenbar Posted December 25, 2006 Posted December 25, 2006 Watch it...that kind of talk isn't appreciated around here... 877456[/snapback] Have you seen such poise and pocket presence from a rookie like that ever??? This is not a blame it on JP post or we shoulda drafted vince post...JP has really progressed and he looks like he is fast turning it around and looks like he will be a very good qb...Boy was I wrong..I gave him up for dead 6 weeks ago.. Watching the game you can tell that Vince has been through the I will take my team and lead then to a win mentality before. Jp is getting there
RJsackedagain Posted December 25, 2006 Posted December 25, 2006 I was at the game in section 204 - he would have had a hell of a hard time making that kick - going for it was the right freaking call.
ExWNYer Posted December 25, 2006 Posted December 25, 2006 It might have been the right decision, but I think it sits easier for everyone to have made the attempt. I mean, take Vinatieri kicking the ice ball against the Raiders for the win a few years back. Most people assumed he'd miss, but somehow it went through. I'd much rather have seen the attempted FG than a poorly designed 4th and 5. 877282[/snapback] Well....he started to make the right choice, but then he called Lindell and Moorman off the field. 877306[/snapback] Given that - why did RL run out to the field on 4th down if this was such a given? Why did JP have to hurry to get the last play off? Why the hell was it a Hail Mary when we needed 5 yards for a fresh set of downs? We can argue about what SHOULD have been called, but I can't see how anyone can disagree that what was done wasn't a cluster!@#$ of epic proportions. 877333[/snapback] I was furious at the final play choice/sequence. I thought they should have attempted the FG but I can live with going for it on 4th and 5 instead. Just not how they went about it. Either kick the !@#$ing ball or get a play in with ample time to survey the defense and audible, if necessary. That was a total cluster at the end and a sickening way to leave your season on the field. Although I advocated trying the sixth kick, I still have a problem with settling for five FGs AT HOME. Does anyone else have a problem with this? That's simply too many points left on the field and is a recipe for disaster more times than not. This was as big a part of their downfall as anything else, IMHO.
SectionC3 Posted December 25, 2006 Posted December 25, 2006 Sorry. You're wrong. The wind was blowing during warm-ups, but NOT at the time of the non-field goal. 877336[/snapback] No, I'm not. Today I sat, depending on one's viewpoint with the curviture of the stadium, between the goal line and the five yard line at that end of the stadium on the bills' sideline and was approximately 15 rows up. the wind wasn't as stiff as it had been at certain points in the game, but was blowing enough that it would have impacted the kick. Don't judge the wind only by the flags on top of the goalposts - there are plenty of times where those flags are relatively still and the "helmet" flags, as well as the US flags outside the stadium are stiff. This was one of those days. (For what it's worth, the Bills' color analyst agreed that the kick was unmakeable.) What is amusing about this debate is that similar conditions have existed at the stadium for the past four or so games. It's no secret that the wind has been particularly troublesome in that endzone this year, and that the line of demarcation for field goal range is roughly the 25 yard stripe. As an aside, too, one thing people haven't made too much of yet is the long-snapping today. I couldn't see a few snaps closer to the tunnel end zone, but I don't know that there was one good snap on either side today. Hentrich made a few outstanding holds on some of the Titans' kicks, and a pretty good grab on one of the punts that he ended up banging out of bounds for a 20 yard-ish change of field position. I'm not saying that the conditions precluded taking a whack at the kick for reasons pertaining to the snap, but the snap and hold were not "gimmies" in that situation. As a further aside, fans who sit in this end might remember these two occurrences: First, there was a game this year where the wind actually knocked that crossbar out of alignment and required the grounds crew to bring a stepladder and a level out to fix it after the first quarter. I've been going to games for a long time and had never seen anything like that. I guess, by way of example, that goes to show how unpredictable that end zone is. Second, there was a similar kick to that of Bironas (sp?) this year where the ball basically died over the crossbar and looked like it was almost blew back out. I can't remember the game - it obvioulsy wasn't Miami and was not Jacksonville - but that kick, too, was from slightly over 40 yards.
CFLstyle Posted December 25, 2006 Posted December 25, 2006 it wasn't a bad decision, 4th and 5 is not an impossible conversion to make, the worst part was it took Jauron too long to figure out what to do. If it were 4th and 15 then I would understand where people are coming at when they say kick the field goal. But 4th and 5.
SRQ_BillsFan Posted December 25, 2006 Posted December 25, 2006 Jonathon Paul, meet JArthur. Lindell said he didnt want the kick. Checkmate 877107[/snapback] What's he supposed to say, my coach is an idot, I should have kicked?
CT/Fordham Bills Fan Posted December 25, 2006 Posted December 25, 2006 I was at the game in section 204 - he would have had a hell of a hard time making that kick - going for it was the right freaking call. 877460[/snapback] Well that makes sense since you were there but we shouldve definitly handled getting the right personel out there and play as well. Had to rush because of ineffective decision making. Whose fault is that you might ask? Dick's of course!!
GottaBillieve Posted December 25, 2006 Posted December 25, 2006 Well that makes sense since you were there but we shouldve definitly handled getting the right personel out there and play as well. Had to rush because of ineffective decision making. Whose fault is that you might ask? Dick's of course!! 877538[/snapback] C'mon, if you like the bills you know that a 45 yarder in Dec is like a 55 yarder in a dome, lindell is accurate but hes no viniteri... Ive been a Bills fan for years, and i agree that the last offensive play would have been a hell of a lot more successful if they had 15 seconds or so to observe the D. But to bag on Dick Jauron and Fairchild now is absurd to me... The Bills wouldnt even be close to fighting for a playoff spot if it werent for the new coaching staff helping to bring this young group together and harness their stengths. We forget that we got 3-4 rookies starting on D and we started the season 2-5 and havent had anything near a winning streak since 01, until now... And honestly the bills wouldnt have made the playoffs anyways cuz the Ravens are too hot for them to handle right now. But next year, i have high hopes for this team if they can keep clements and draft some good d linemen... i see a real shot at the post season in 08...
fakeeyed Posted December 25, 2006 Posted December 25, 2006 C'mon, if you like the bills you know that a 45 yarder in Dec is like a 55 yarder in a dome, lindell is accurate but hes no viniteri... 877555[/snapback] what a completely asinine first post. 45 yarder in december? winds not blowing (check the flags on the reply) and the weather is the type of weather we usually get in the end of september. i stopped reading after that first line... it was a bad decision not to try the kick. but if they knew they werent going to... it was a bad decision to pass and not keep running the ball and have a 4th down play ready. either freaking way the coaches completely dropped the ball.
Koufax Posted December 25, 2006 Posted December 25, 2006 but if they knew they werent going to... it was a bad decision to pass and not keep running the ball and have a 4th down play ready. either freaking way the coaches completely dropped the ball. 877558[/snapback] Yeah, I'm more disappointed with 2nd and 5 and 3rd and five in terms of play calling (although I'm disappointed in all three for results). I think two Willis runs would have meant a first down, but if not they would have meant an easier field goal or an easier fourth down try. But had JP completed one of those three passes I wouldn't have worried about the play calling, so we are judging hindsight based on the results as well, not just the right decisions at the time. I still think this team is on the right course and in the right hands, even if not every call or play or player is perfect. I look forward to the team playing to win for 60 minutes in Baltimore, and then getting ready for a 2007 as a playoff contender.
DrDawkinstein Posted December 25, 2006 Posted December 25, 2006 didnt read everyone's back and forth about the (no) kick. but wind or no wind, what it comes down to is on 4th and 5 on the 28 with under 1 minute left you kick that ball. both lindell and jauron said in post-game that the "line" that was drawn to get to was the 25. they were 9 feet away. 9 FEET! you kick the ball. if you dont kick it, you have 0% chance of winning, if you TRY and kick it you are at least TRYING to win. and if they were soooo dead set on not kicking it outside of the 25, why was there so much confusion as to what they were going to do? EDIT: i was at the game as well, and wasnt the only person completely dumbfounded by how we handled that last play. you play to win. you have to try to kick it. IMO, it was makable, we'll never no cause we never tried and the people/teams that lose in life are those that dont try to win.
Captain Hindsight Posted December 25, 2006 Posted December 25, 2006 If lindell said he cant make it then im ok with Juarons decision to go for it. What im not ok with is that juaron asked the question at all, we have quite possibly the biggest kicker in the league, Kick the damn football if you miss blame the wind and eat your words insead of this well it was 3 yrds outta his range, bull sh-- kick the ball earn your paycheck no questions asked
BADOLBILZ Posted December 25, 2006 Posted December 25, 2006 To say we had to get inside the 20 (37 yard FG or less) is absurd. Wrong decision by all accounts. 877091[/snapback] It amazes me that there are people who follow the Bills and actually thought that they should have attempted the field goal from there. No way in hell he makes that kick into that wind. Bironas made his 39 yarder by about a yard into that wind, and that guy recently made a 60 yarder. Lindell does not have Bironas' range and you think he was going to make a kick from 5 yards further? It looks like a bad decision from Bristol Ct., but in Orchard Park the chances of converting 4th and 5 were much greater than making that kick, plain and simple. Jauron could have sent Lindell out there to be the goat, instead, he tried to win the game. The right call.
DrDawkinstein Posted December 25, 2006 Posted December 25, 2006 then why didnt they have a play ready??
BADOLBILZ Posted December 25, 2006 Posted December 25, 2006 EDIT: i was at the game as well, and wasnt the only person completely dumbfounded by how we handled that last play. you play to win. you have to try to kick it. IMO, it was makable, we'll never no cause we never tried and the people/teams that lose in life are those that dont try to win. 877728[/snapback] There were a lot of dumbfounded people, but dumbasses get that way. How little fans know about the game is something I don't understand. Based simply on Rian Lindell's past track record for distance and the wind conditions, I give him less than 10% chance of making that kick. Add in his history in pressure situations.....less than 5%. Don't forget, this guy missed a 40-45 yarder late in the Indy game. He also was a big reason they lost that Pittsburgh game in 2004. We aren't talking about Adam Viniateri here.
meazza Posted December 25, 2006 Posted December 25, 2006 There were a lot of dumbfounded people, but dumbasses get that way. How little fans know about the game is something I don't understand. Based simply on Rian Lindell's past track record for distance and the wind conditions, I give him less than 10% chance of making that kick. Add in his history in pressure situations.....less than 5%. Don't forget, this guy missed a 40-45 yarder late in the Indy game. He also was a big reason they lost that Pittsburgh game in 2004. We aren't talking about Adam Viniateri here. 877805[/snapback] Good point. So if you as a coach know this, tell me why in God's name do you call a play where all your wide receivers are near the end zone when all you need is a measly five yards and still got some time to kill. (57 seconds is an eternity if you know what you're doing.) For !@#$s sake, Losman could have ran for the five yards out of bounds. To get all the things going your way (face mask, good field position) and to waste it like that is disgusting. I'm not about to crucify Dick Jauron but this isn't the minors, mistakes like that cost you.
BADOLBILZ Posted December 25, 2006 Posted December 25, 2006 If lindell said he cant make it then im ok with Juarons decision to go for it. What im not ok with is that juaron asked the question at all, we have quite possibly the biggest kicker in the league, Kick the damn football if you miss blame the wind and eat your words insead of this well it was 3 yrds outta his range, bull sh-- kick the ball earn your paycheck no questions asked 877734[/snapback] Yeah right, that's what we want, a coach who is more interested in self preservation than winning. While you guys are wringing your hands about Jauron not kicking, the team no doubt gained another degree of appreciation for Jauron. I wasn't in favor of hiring the guy, but I'm glad he's more interested in winning than excuses. Wade, Greggo and Mularkey would have sent out the kicker, and been halfway up the runway before the kick missed badly.
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