What is your guess

[plenzmd1]

Haven't seen this posted before, if it has I apolgize in advance.

 

Disclaimer first: did not think Juaron was a good hire, but he has really won me over. I am solidly in his corner no matter what happens last two games. I am truly excited bout this team and the leadership.

 

My question is this: Where would the Bills be right now if Mularkey didn't quit?

 

I think Juaron had an advantage as he was given the reins with the expectation this would be a rebuilding year.

Mularkey I do not believe would of had that luxuary, as third year in he would have been expected to produce, even with Marv and Ralph saying he had a gimme. So, in an effort to win at all costs this year, I think some things may have progressed differently. Such as:

 

1) Holcomb or Nail would be starting at QB, with JP destined to be traded or released in the offseason. There is no doubt in my mind JP has advanced by leaps and bounds, especially after the bye week. But I think he never would have started a game after the bye week, as MM would have been focused on wins now.

 

2) Subset of the above. I do not think the line would have changed, as MM would have been hesitant to go a rookie and second year player on the right side. Again, I think this move was made cause DJ had the comfort to know no matter what happened, he was building for next year, and getting these young guys experience would help in the long term building of the team. MM , agian, would have had to be focused on winning this year.

 

3) TV would still be here, with Ko sitting on the bench. MM would have never had the balls to cut TV, worrying about the reaction the vets would have and how that could affect team chemistry. Juaron , again, had the ability to say screw it, if it divides the locker room, we will know who the real character guys are, and who will show up to play no matter what. Almost had that that division with TKO's comments about "rebuilding" but I think DJ is such a staright shooter and viewed as such a players coach, never became an issue.

 

In summation, I am not sure about the differance in record, but I am pretty sure the makeup of the team next year would be dramitically differant, and the future no where near as rosy. We got young guys now with a year under their belt that I think would not have gotten that playing time under MM. And I emphasize that is onlu cause of a differant set of expectations, not actual coaching abilities.

 

What say ye?

[MadBuffaloDisease]

If Mularkey were still the HC, we'd all be saying "I'd have even taken Jauron over another year of this."

[/dev/null]

if mularkey was still coach, we would all be wondering:

1. if we'd get a 3rd or 4th rounder for JP (3rd string QB)

2. when leinhart would start

3. what could we have drafted with that 2nd and 3rd round pick we traded to move up to take leinhart

[Dan]

I'd agree with much of what you've said. Although I don't think we'd have the same record. Perhaps 5 wins. I doubt Willis would have played with broken ribs and we'd probably not have A-train on the roster backing him up. Mularkey did not inspire his players to play.

 

Most importantly, I think we'd have a continuation of last year's aura. That is a team that's spinning its wheels trying anything - gimmicks, trick plays, rash player substitutions, etc. - to get a few wins.

 

The single biggest thing Jauron has done is provide a sense of direction, a sense of progress, a sense of stability to this team. That, along with Marv's emphasis on character and team, finally have this team thinking positively. We were dwelling in a repeating cycle of losing and Marv along with Jauron have managed to turn that around in a single season. Not only do the fans think we'll win or at least can win; but the players think they can win. And that is not to be underestimated or undevalued.

[Tcali]

Haven't seen this posted before, if it has I apolgize in advance.

 

Disclaimer first: did not  think Juaron was a good hire, but he has really won me over. I am solidly in his corner no matter what happens last two games. I am truly excited bout this team and the leadership.

 

My question is this: Where would the Bills be right now if Mularkey didn't quit?

 

I think Juaron had an advantage as he was given the reins with the expectation this would be a rebuilding year.

Mularkey I do not believe would of had that luxuary, as third year in he would have been expected to produce, even with Marv and Ralph saying he had a gimme. So, in an effort to win at all costs this year, I think some things may have progressed differently. Such as:

 

1) Holcomb or Nail would be starting at QB, with JP destined to be traded or released in the offseason. There is no doubt in my mind JP has advanced by leaps and bounds, especially after the bye week. But I think he never would have started a game after the bye week, as MM would have been focused on wins now.

 

2) Subset of the above. I do not think the line would have changed, as MM would have been hesitant to go a rookie and second year player on the right side. Again, I think this move was made cause DJ had the comfort to know no matter what happened, he was building for next year, and getting these young guys experience would help in the long term building of the team. MM , agian, would have had to be focused on winning this year.

 

3) TV would still be here, with Ko sitting on the bench. MM would have never had the balls to cut TV, worrying about the reaction the vets would have and how that could affect team chemistry. Juaron , again, had the ability to say screw it, if it divides the locker room, we will know who the real character guys are, and who will show up to play no matter what. Almost had that that division with TKO's comments about "rebuilding" but I think DJ is such a staright shooter and viewed as such a players coach, never became an issue.

 

In summation, I am not sure about the differance in record, but I am pretty sure the makeup of the team next year would be dramitically differant, and the future no where near as rosy. We got young guys now with a year under their belt that I think would not have gotten that playing time under MM.  And I emphasize that is onlu cause of a differant set of expectations, not actual coaching abilities.

 

What say ye?

875257[/snapback]

I would say we'd be 3-11 or 4-12...Holcomb at QB.--Completely demoralized and unorganized team.

GW and Mularkey---good work TD!!!!!!lol

[ConradDobler]

If meathead had stayed, we may very well have been saddled with another year of Jerry Gray's "Smoke and Mirrors" defense (shudder).

[East Brady]

We are so far ahead of where we were last year. I don't even want to consider what would have happened, that is a nightmare........

 

Lovin Big Dickey J. regardless of the outcome next 2 weeks. I know the team will play balls to the wall for him. Dickball is fun again.

[Dibs]

I imagine we'd have a lot worse record. I cannot see JP being developed as he has been under a MM regime.....blah, blah....all the obvious stuff....

 

I would think however that many around here would have been far less stressed & generally happier with MM as HC......until we started losing without hope of improvement again. What I'm getting at is we certainly wouldn't have gone with the Tampa 2 Defence under MM. This means the draft would have been vastly different and I'd be fairly sure we'd have at least 2 wide bodied DTs sitting on the roster.....probably not doing much on the field but.....we'd still have a couple of big DTs.

[Pyrite Gal]

Haven't seen this posted before, if it has I apolgize in advance.

 

Disclaimer first: did not  think Juaron was a good hire, but he has really won me over. I am solidly in his corner no matter what happens last two games. I am truly excited bout this team and the leadership.

 

My question is this: Where would the Bills be right now if Mularkey didn't quit?

 

I think Juaron had an advantage as he was given the reins with the expectation this would be a rebuilding year.

Mularkey I do not believe would of had that luxuary, as third year in he would have been expected to produce, even with Marv and Ralph saying he had a gimme. So, in an effort to win at all costs this year, I think some things may have progressed differently. Such as:

 

1) Holcomb or Nail would be starting at QB, with JP destined to be traded or released in the offseason. There is no doubt in my mind JP has advanced by leaps and bounds, especially after the bye week. But I think he never would have started a game after the bye week, as MM would have been focused on wins now.

 

2) Subset of the above. I do not think the line would have changed, as MM would have been hesitant to go a rookie and second year player on the right side. Again, I think this move was made cause DJ had the comfort to know no matter what happened, he was building for next year, and getting these young guys experience would help in the long term building of the team. MM , agian, would have had to be focused on winning this year.

 

3) TV would still be here, with Ko sitting on the bench. MM would have never had the balls to cut TV, worrying about the reaction the vets would have and how that could affect team chemistry. Juaron , again, had the ability to say screw it, if it divides the locker room, we will know who the real character guys are, and who will show up to play no matter what. Almost had that that division with TKO's comments about "rebuilding" but I think DJ is such a staright shooter and viewed as such a players coach, never became an issue.

 

In summation, I am not sure about the differance in record, but I am pretty sure the makeup of the team next year would be dramitically differant, and the future no where near as rosy. We got young guys now with a year under their belt that I think would not have gotten that playing time under MM.  And I emphasize that is onlu cause of a differant set of expectations, not actual coaching abilities.

 

What say ye?

875257[/snapback]

 

Its hard to say as this is so theoretical and hypothetical but this is my incorrect guess to go with everyon else's:

 

1. Just as was the case with the situation which led to MM\s throwing in the towel and running out on this team, a lot depends on who MM ha above and below him. TD was damaged goods as I think his ultimate motivation was not to get run out of town by an HC he hired as he was in Pitt. Thus his relationship with MM proved to be almost as toxic as it was when MM hired GW (an HC he should not have hired when he had a shot at both Fox and Lewis. My lead assumption in this case was that it would not have worked if TD had stayed and that assuming YD was gone, MM would have been on pins and needles as a guy Marv inherited and Ralph only kept because it galls him to pay a guy to sit at home (see Wade P.)

 

However, Marv has demonstrated in his earlier go round with the Bills and now as GM that even with his failings, he really is a good delegator and orchestrator of a team. Thus, I am fairly sure that though it was a bad situation, Marv would have gotten all he could have gotten out of MM and really in making this situation the best it could be would have made it more like the 04 season where MM was coaching well than the 05 season where he coached poorly.

 

2. The other factor is the variable of who MMs assts would have been. If the poor performance of the O which led to Clements getting canned was essentially his fault them it is a question of who MM attracts to be the new OC. If on the other hand the poor performance was the result of TD stupidly extending Bledsoe and then adding insult to this injury by cutting him and TC was mostly a scapegoat for carrying out TD's bizarre actions then perhaps there is a way in which some very good OC work by TC in 04 could be replicated. Who knows.

 

Add to this if the pretend theory is that MM stays, then perhaps Gray also stays and the question is whether you get the 04 Gray performance in which I think he demonstrated that the D could produce separate from its creator LeBeau being there (Gray had called the plays on his own the year before and in 04 LeBeau had no role whatsoever in constructing the D strategy for each game and making the halftiome adjustments and though LeBeau still gets nod because the basic scheme was his, Gray deserves full praise for an improved D performance over the year before with LeBeau around) or whether you get the 05 Gray whose D simply did not do the job.

 

My sense is that Gray probably stays and there is a reasonable chance that the Bills D improves this year under him and that though TC does not stay that Mm is an offensive guy who under Marv's guidance could well have done a far better job with this year's Bills crew without the TD idiocy ovelaying the situation/

 

Overal, if MM was here then my guess is the result is about the same as in essence I think that this year's creation is a tribute to Marv in many ways and though I think he was able to do it more easily and with less psychosis with Jauron rather than MM, I think he likely would have gotten similar results under MM.

[generaLee83]

If meathead had stayed, we may very well have been saddled with another year of Jerry Gray's "Smoke and Mirrors" defense (shudder).

875332[/snapback]

 

 

So true, Gray was handed tons of talent and when he had less talent (or old talent) he didn't accomplish sh)t.

 

His stupid blitzes on 3rd downs cost this team so freaking much.

[Pyrite Gal]

So true, Gray was handed tons of talent and when he had less talent (or old talent) he didn't accomplish sh)t.

 

His stupid blitzes on 3rd downs cost this team so freaking much.

875472[/snapback]

 

He was pretty bad working with the talent he had in 2005, but also I think that it would simply be the truth to recognize that he did accomplish a lot with virtually the same players in the 2004 season and a lor of this was both in big ways his own work and not really expected.

 

Specifically:

 

1. The results of his D were not very good when he got the DC job with GW in the 2001 season. The talent was goshawful as the Bills were forced by the cap to strip players and reload, but his first season saw the D actually do what little the team did that year, but Gray simply could not get them to play more than 3/4 of a game well and they ended 3-13.

 

His second season saw the team get better behind improved production of a Bledsoe led offense, but the decision to slot Jenkins who was washed up into the SS slot and Robinson who was washed up at OLB made this D bad.

 

LeBeau came on board and installed his zone-blitz scheme in 04 and with Bledsoe crashing and burning this bad team flip-flopped in unit production. However, Gray actually kept the DC title and role as he seemed to quickly master the LeBeau scheme and there was good D playcalling that year.

 

2. The '04 season showed us alot as the team came within a hair of the playoffs utilizing the streak which called upon all 3 teams to take turns and combine in producing the streak (it was ironic that our ultimate loss was to a LeBeau D-led Pitt teams which beat us in three phases of the game to cost us even a shot at the playoffs). However, against weaker competition than the year before (admittedly) the D performance improved statistically and subjectively under Gray from a 5th in the league performance to 2nd in the league (behind LeBeau's Pitts team which had better talent.

 

Gray deserves credit for his own work in addition to LeBeau getting credit for his scheme as:

 

A. The playcalling Gray did the year before showed he mastered the scheme though their remained a question of how much LeBeau as AHC had to do with the success.

B. In '04 LeBeau was off to another town and he had no role in: 1). preparing a successful D strategy for each game and 2). making adjustments at half time (for example Sammy Morris shredded the Bills D in the first half for about 80 yards, but adjustments and a game situation behind a nice surprise onside kick to start and nice Bledsoe led O work behind WM held him below 100 yards rushing for the game).

Gray demonstrated through this and other work which LeBeau had nothing to do with such as the nice job he did retraining and reconfiguring the D during bye week that he could master and then run an improved D at a high level of production.

 

3. Granted you are correct that Gray sucked in output in 05 and the Bills did the right thing in moving on to a different DC under Jauron in 06 (Gray was given a look for staying though I suspect much of this was done in order to give him some props as he had a lot of respect among team leaders as we rebuilt a team where members of the Bills had lost respect and allegiance to each other amidst the Moulds/TD/MM/Ralph meltdowns) and also in response to the NFL's years of discrimination and failure to give African-Americans an opportunity and fair shot at HC jobs,

 

However, overall I think that a fair assessment recognizes that like most other human beings Gray has some failings but also that he does a number of things fairly well as a DC.

[Rubes]

Just a guess, but I think Shelton would have more catches than Evans.

 

ANd we wouldn't have swept Miami, that's for sure!

[BADOLBILZ]

Haven't seen this posted before, if it has I apolgize in advance.

 

Disclaimer first: did not  think Juaron was a good hire, but he has really won me over. I am solidly in his corner no matter what happens last two games. I am truly excited bout this team and the leadership.

 

My question is this: Where would the Bills be right now if Mularkey didn't quit?

 

I think Juaron had an advantage as he was given the reins with the expectation this would be a rebuilding year.

Mularkey I do not believe would of had that luxuary, as third year in he would have been expected to produce, even with Marv and Ralph saying he had a gimme. So, in an effort to win at all costs this year, I think some things may have progressed differently. Such as:

 

1) Holcomb or Nail would be starting at QB, with JP destined to be traded or released in the offseason. There is no doubt in my mind JP has advanced by leaps and bounds, especially after the bye week. But I think he never would have started a game after the bye week, as MM would have been focused on wins now.

 

2) Subset of the above. I do not think the line would have changed, as MM would have been hesitant to go a rookie and second year player on the right side. Again, I think this move was made cause DJ had the comfort to know no matter what happened, he was building for next year, and getting these young guys experience would help in the long term building of the team. MM , agian, would have had to be focused on winning this year.

 

3) TV would still be here, with Ko sitting on the bench. MM would have never had the balls to cut TV, worrying about the reaction the vets would have and how that could affect team chemistry. Juaron , again, had the ability to say screw it, if it divides the locker room, we will know who the real character guys are, and who will show up to play no matter what. Almost had that that division with TKO's comments about "rebuilding" but I think DJ is such a staright shooter and viewed as such a players coach, never became an issue.

 

In summation, I am not sure about the differance in record, but I am pretty sure the makeup of the team next year would be dramitically differant, and the future no where near as rosy. We got young guys now with a year under their belt that I think would not have gotten that playing time under MM.  And I emphasize that is onlu cause of a differant set of expectations, not actual coaching abilities.

 

What say ye?

875257[/snapback]

 

Assuming the personnel were the same, and it likely would be because guys like Sam Adams and Eric Moulds are not here because of what transpired with Mularkey, the team would probably be 2-12 right now, on our way to 2-14.

 

I've said it before, the combination of lesser talent and inexperience on this team made it a very bad team coming into the season. Jauron has recognized that his schedule has been full of teams with wannabe genius coaching staffs that insist on throwing the football even if they are getting 6-8 yards per carry, and when they do so, they turn the ball over. The Bills simply try not to turn the football over, and play good special teams.

 

The Bills have been a soundly coached football team. I was very much against Jauron's hiring, but he has been the right coach for this football team right now. I can't remember the Bills ever having a coaching staff that knew it's teams capability and it's limitations like Jauron and staff has shown they do since the bye week. Not Donahoe's clowns, not Wade or Marv either. Probably the best coaching job I've seen by any Bills coaching staff. Now maybe that's been part luck, because when you don't have a lot of talent, logic would dictate you play conservative football. We'll probably find that out next season as the talent level improves along with added experience. If they evolve into a team that can win even on bad days, and beat well coached teams on the road, then we'll know we have something in Jauron and staff.