jimmy_from_north_buffalo Posted December 21, 2006 Posted December 21, 2006 Sort of an interesting story. I'm sure he will go to jail for 8 years. I wonder if we will still be in Iraq when he gets out of jail? Here is the Wikipedia article on him: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehren_Watada
SD Jarhead Posted December 21, 2006 Posted December 21, 2006 What an effin kitty! I hope they give him more than eight years. He is supposed to be a leader of men, not just his own sorry ass. What's interesting about a man who voluntarily takes an oath and choses to ignore it when it suits him? Thankfully, this guy is an exception to the rule and not the norm. Screw him.
Bungee Jumper Posted December 21, 2006 Posted December 21, 2006 What an effin kitty! I hope they give him more than eight years. He is supposed to be a leader of men, not just his own sorry ass. What's interesting about a man who voluntarily takes an oath and choses to ignore it when it suits him? Thankfully, this guy is an exception to the rule and not the norm. Screw him. 874361[/snapback] I know that some militaries (like the West German Army) "allow" for soldiers to decline to follow orders that are illegal (e.g. "Go kill those Jews", which is why the West Germans made that little rule up). I don't know if the US military has the same policy...but I certainly support it, if they do. And this guy seems to think his orders are illegal...so I can certainly see his point... ...however: he only thinks that. If he proves it in a court of law (or a court martial), fine and dandy, he should be acquitted. Good luck doing that, though: I know that no domestic laws have been broken, and off the top of my head I can't think of a single international law that's been broken either.
Oneonta Buffalo Fan Posted December 21, 2006 Posted December 21, 2006 I don't blame him. It's really dangerous there.
Tux of Borg Posted December 21, 2006 Posted December 21, 2006 Give him 20 years in an Egyptian run prison.
SD Jarhead Posted December 21, 2006 Posted December 21, 2006 A few questions that remain unanswered in the article... Did he receive any scholarship money from the Army? Why didn't he resign before being assigned to duty in Iraq? Was the war less objectionable to him when his butt wasn't in jeapordy? Things that make me go Hmmm.
Bungee Jumper Posted December 21, 2006 Posted December 21, 2006 Why didn't he resign before being assigned to duty in Iraq? Was the war less objectionable to him when his butt wasn't in jeapordy? 874462[/snapback] Of course it wasn't.
D_House Posted December 21, 2006 Posted December 21, 2006 Why didn't he resign before being assigned to duty in Iraq? Was the war less objectionable to him when his butt wasn't in jeapordy? Things that make me go Hmmm. 874462[/snapback] This is addressed in the Wiki article: Watada has said he is not a conscientious objector because he is not opposed to war as a principle, only the war in Iraq, and so offered to serve in Afghanistan,[7] which he regarded as "an unambiguous war linked to the Sept. 11 attacks." This was also refused. Watada, in turn, refused an offer for a desk job in Iraq without direct combat involvement.[4] Lt. Watada's initial term of service ends on December 3, 2006. However, the US Army may choose to extend its officers' tours of duty at its discretion. So he's not a pacifist and would voluntarily go to Afghanistan and serve there. And he didn't accept a job in Iraq that put him out of harm's way. It seems pretty clear that he is not being motivated by cowardice, although of course he is opening himself up to accusations of cowardice.
Alaska Darin Posted December 21, 2006 Posted December 21, 2006 I don't blame him. It's really dangerous there. 874451[/snapback] Dangerous warzones? How odd.
erynthered Posted December 22, 2006 Posted December 22, 2006 Wouldn't that be great to be in the Military, and be able to pick the war zones that you wanted to go to. I see a new recruiting slogan.... "Fight where you want to fight, you pick it"
Bungee Jumper Posted December 22, 2006 Posted December 22, 2006 This is addressed in the Wiki article: So he's not a pacifist and would voluntarily go to Afghanistan and serve there. And he didn't accept a job in Iraq that put him out of harm's way. It seems pretty clear that he is not being motivated by cowardice, although of course he is opening himself up to accusations of cowardice. 874478[/snapback] What is he being motivated by, then? "I think the war's illegal, so I'll go there if I don't have to shoot." Frankly, I think he IS a coward. Not because he doesn't want to fight, but because he conditionally doesn't want to serve in a war he thinks is unjust. Not a hell of a lot of conviction behind that belief, it seems...
yall Posted December 22, 2006 Posted December 22, 2006 What is he being motivated by, then? "I think the war's illegal, so I'll go there if I don't have to shoot." Frankly, I think he IS a coward. Not because he doesn't want to fight, but because he conditionally doesn't want to serve in a war he thinks is unjust. Not a hell of a lot of conviction behind that belief, it seems... 874595[/snapback] For the record, I think he is wrong too... but I'm not sure I understand your logic here... He declined a safe job in Iraq, sort of proving that it isn't his personal safety that is his main concern. He is against that particular conflict so by refusing a presumably safe job there, he kinda stood by his convictions. Either way though, his CIC is saying "go do this" and he "thinks" it's an illegal order. At that level you aren't paid to make those decisions. He isn't being asked to do anything illegal or immoral as far as I can tell, so yeah, they should throw the book at him. Kinda embarrassing to me, as he is 2nd ID, of which I was once a member.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 22, 2006 Posted December 22, 2006 Another one who deserves the firing squad. WTF is with today's military? You can't disobey an order unless it violates the laws of war.
jimmy_from_north_buffalo Posted December 22, 2006 Author Posted December 22, 2006 Things that make me go Hmmm. 874462[/snapback] I thought you said nothing was interesting about the story? Anyway, you called him a pvssy but he isn't. He has concluded what many people have, that this war is wrong on many different levels. He has said he will go to Afganistan, and it would have been rather sporting if the army had allowed him to do so. When I was in the military they actually taught us to disobey immoral orders. That's basically what he is doing. He really is braver than the average soldier or marine. He is willing to fight and also willing to go to jail for what he believes is right.
jimmy_from_north_buffalo Posted December 22, 2006 Author Posted December 22, 2006 Another one who deserves the firing squad. WTF is with today's military? You can't disobey an order unless it violates the laws of war. 874824[/snapback] Would you get a rush out of shooting him yourself?
jimmy_from_north_buffalo Posted December 22, 2006 Author Posted December 22, 2006 Wouldn't that be great to be in the Military, and be able to pick the war zones that you wanted to go to. I see a new recruiting slogan...."Fight where you want to fight, you pick it" 874560[/snapback] It would be even better if we felt like our military was being used to defend our nation instead of being thrown into some far out quagmire with no real mission.
Alaska Darin Posted December 22, 2006 Posted December 22, 2006 Another one who deserves the firing squad. WTF is with today's military? You can't disobey an order unless it violates the laws of war. 874824[/snapback] How the fug do you point the finger at "today's military" over a couple of clowns among over a million that pull this crap? Like this stuff hasn't been happening forever?
Alaska Darin Posted December 22, 2006 Posted December 22, 2006 It would be even better if we felt like our military was being used to defend our nation instead of being thrown into some far out quagmire with no real mission. 874865[/snapback] So now it's about your feelings?
Bungee Jumper Posted December 22, 2006 Posted December 22, 2006 For the record, I think he is wrong too... but I'm not sure I understand your logic here... He declined a safe job in Iraq, sort of proving that it isn't his personal safety that is his main concern. He is against that particular conflict so by refusing a presumably safe job there, he kinda stood by his convictions. Either way though, his CIC is saying "go do this" and he "thinks" it's an illegal order. At that level you aren't paid to make those decisions. He isn't being asked to do anything illegal or immoral as far as I can tell, so yeah, they should throw the book at him. Kinda embarrassing to me, as he is 2nd ID, of which I was once a member. 874818[/snapback] My point is: if he's convinced his orders are illegal, he's trying to weasel out of responsibility for avoiding them. Basically, he's trying to avoid taking a stand. Either it's an illegal war, or it's legal. Seems to me he's trying to say "Well...it's illegal...but I don't believe that strongly enough to completely not support it....so can I just sort-of not support it?" That's cowardly, not having conviction in his beliefs.
Bungee Jumper Posted December 22, 2006 Posted December 22, 2006 So now it's about your feelings? 874922[/snapback] No. It's about what the press told him to feel. Didn't you read his post?
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