ganesh Posted December 20, 2006 Posted December 20, 2006 Aaron Schobel makes the pro bowl and Dwight Freeney Doesn't? LOL...........This is another clear sign of the apocalypse. Wow! Hmmmm, I feel bad that Lee Evans didnt make it though. I would take him over Andre Johnson any day. And how does A-Johnson start over Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne? 872799[/snapback] I am sure that is how every one in Indy is talking about Schoebel...Like how we are bitching about Wilson getting the nod over Fletcher
MDH Posted December 20, 2006 Posted December 20, 2006 I am sure that is how every one in Indy is talking about Schoebel...Like how we are bitching about Wilson getting the nod over Fletcher 872807[/snapback] Why, Freeney hasn't had a good year at all. I know a few Colt fans and none of them are that sad that Freeney is likely gone after the year is over. He's a liability against the run and hasn't made up for it with QB pressures this year. There are lots of guys that deserve a pro bowl nod over Freeney this year.
Offside Number 76 Posted December 20, 2006 Posted December 20, 2006 All I'm sayin' is good for Schoebel and good (again) for Moorman.
ThePebble19 Posted December 20, 2006 Posted December 20, 2006 zach thomas over fletch? hellz no. 872429[/snapback] Zach Thomas deserves the Pro Bowl...his numbers speak for themselves.... Al Wilson on the other hand, does not...95 tackles and nothing else. Meanwhile, London Fletcher has over 100 tackles, 3 picks, 6 defl's, and a TD... Seems London got hosed... Still not the biggest disappointment...Anyone that says that John Lynch deserves to be there more than Kerry Rhodes is completely blind.
Hammond Posted December 20, 2006 Posted December 20, 2006 Why, Freeney hasn't had a good year at all. I know a few Colt fans and none of them are that sad that Freeney is likely gone after the year is over. He's a liability against the run and hasn't made up for it with QB pressures this year. There are lots of guys that deserve a pro bowl nod over Freeney this year. 872831[/snapback] Dude, are you for real men.......LOL.......And Schobel does exactly what against the run? Please, give the Bills a choice at Freeney or Schobel, and see how many seconds it takes for Marv and Jauron to send the Turk to make sure Aaron turns in his playbook and locker room access card
Dibs Posted December 20, 2006 Posted December 20, 2006 Dude, are you for real men.......LOL.......And Schobel does exactly what against the run? Please, give the Bills a choice at Freeney or Schobel, and see how many seconds it takes for Marv and Jauron to send the Turk to make sure Aaron turns in his playbook and locker room access card 872872[/snapback] Nah....it's obvious what the situation is here. LARRY TRIPPLETT 02-05 with Tripplett at the Colts, Freeney gets sacks numbering 13, 11, 16, 11 06 without Tripplett at the Colts, Freeney has 5.5 sacks in 14 games(averages out to 6 sacks) 02-05 without Tripplett, Schobel gets sacks numbering 8.5, 11.5, 8, 12 06 with Tripplett, Schobel has 13.5 sacks in 14 games(averages out to 15.5 sacks) How underrated is Tripplett?
Bill from NYC Posted December 20, 2006 Posted December 20, 2006 Nah....it's obvious what the situation is here.LARRY TRIPPLETT 02-05 with Tripplett at the Colts, Freeney gets sacks numbering 13, 11, 16, 11 06 without Tripplett at the Colts, Freeney has 5.5 sacks in 14 games(averages out to 6 sacks) 02-05 without Tripplett, Schobel gets sacks numbering 8.5, 11.5, 8, 12 06 with Tripplett, Schobel has 13.5 sacks in 14 games(averages out to 15.5 sacks) How underrated is Tripplett? 872881[/snapback] I don't know if you are joking or not, and it is hard for me to even say how good Tripplett is, but you might have a legit point. When was the last time the Bills had a DT with any kind of speed? Big Sam had a quick burst, but that was it. I have seen qbs run right into DEs while being chased by Tripplett. The first Miami game comes to mind. In any event, I dare say that our DEs might very well have a few less sacks if Tripplett wasn't in there, or another DT who provides is a good speed rusher.
ganesh Posted December 20, 2006 Posted December 20, 2006 Meanwhile, London Fletcher has over 100 tackles, 3 picks, 6 defl's, and a TD... 872844[/snapback] It is ok for the national media to give incorrect numbers......London Fletcher has TWO defensive Touchdowns. He returned the fumble by Brady in the season opener and then the 1st game after the bye week, he returned a Bret Favre interception for TD against Green Bay.
LabattBlue Posted December 20, 2006 Posted December 20, 2006 Pro Bowl voting is a joke. If you want to see what players are really the best in the game, wait for the AP All Pro team to be announced.
MDH Posted December 20, 2006 Posted December 20, 2006 Dude, are you for real men.......LOL.......And Schobel does exactly what against the run? Please, give the Bills a choice at Freeney or Schobel, and see how many seconds it takes for Marv and Jauron to send the Turk to make sure Aaron turns in his playbook and locker room access card 872872[/snapback] Nobody is talking about who is the better player, I'm talking about who had the better season. Freeney's season as been ass, plain and simple. Are you really going to argue the point? As for Schobel vs. the run, when compared to Freeney Schobel looks like Ted Washington. Freeney puts his head down and rushes up field on just about every play. Half the time he's not even aware of where the ball is.
Hammond Posted December 20, 2006 Posted December 20, 2006 Nobody is talking about who is the better player, I'm talking about who had the better season. Freeney's season as been ass, plain and simple. Are you really going to argue the point? As for Schobel vs. the run, when compared to Freeney Schobel looks like Ted Washington. Freeney puts his head down and rushes up field on just about every play. Half the time he's not even aware of where the ball is. 873081[/snapback] Please tell me how and why Schobel has had a better year! Does Schobel draw double teams unlike Freeney? Does he make Sacks when it counts, unlike Freeney? If you doubt it, ask JP what happened in the redzone against indy Do offensive lines slide protect towards Schobel's side unlike Freeney? Dude, I can go on and on. Freeney and Jason Taylor are the two most feared pass rushers in the game today for obvious reasons. Just because Schobel piles up inconsequential sack totals against average tackles or in garbage time does not mean he has had a better year than Freeney. Go and look at the running plays that the Colts have been gashed on and see that they are mostly up the middle and due to poor tackling by the linebacker. Take a look at Schobel's play on the run..........and I will send you a pod cast on Wgr's website on how Coach Dickerson described his poor technique----It's guaranteed to make anyone laugh until the Ball drops at Times Square! Bottomline, on his worst day, I will take Freeney over a Schobel, and I bet Marv and Jauron would do the same as well
Pyrite Gal Posted December 20, 2006 Posted December 20, 2006 I think Freeney's shot has been devastated by his team being pretty bad on D as a whole and being on a DL which can be run against. The Bills ain't perfect, but it clearly is improving at the right time with performances like they put up the last few games since the NE loss (the run D got shredded by SD, but then who hasn't gotten shredded by LT this year). If one wants to try to explain the Indy disappointing results by looking at his colleagues rather than Freeney, then it becomes legit to also consider Schobel's D teammates which include rookies at both saftey slots and at one of the DT spots (though there is a rotation). It really depends upon the D scheme I chose to run and who the players teammates are in terms of whether I choose Freeney or Schobel. Its not an accurate one on one comparison, but reality in football is that the game is not one on one it depends upon your team. In the end, the key thing about this Pro Bowl choice is entertainment rather than than some false assessment of who is a better player (as the the real answer to this question is simply it depends). I actually would more likely choose to build around Schobel rather than Freeney because what the stats reveal is how much help Freeney needs to excel at the pass rush game he is so good at. Meanwhile it seems to be the case that what Schobel brings to the table is a successful experience with the LeBeau/Gray zone blits and his loss of weight while increasing his strength that came with the switch to that scheme, Schobel brings unique ability and flexibility to pass cover in the short zone from his zone-blitz experience while now that he is given a simpler task in the Fewell/Jauron scheme to mostly blitz and to contain. The most impressive thing about his progression over time is that he has built up his strength to no longer be a target at the point of attack as the younger Schobel was. Further, given that he plays a leadership role on this very young squad with a bunch of rookies, in many of those it depends cases I choose Schobel over Freeney. Freeney is a good and often very good player. He simply is not that good though in almost every case (as shown by his stats this year) that like a Bruce Smith (or even a Jason Taylor who has the flexiblity to play LB as well as DE) that I would choose Freeney everday over Schobel.
ThePebble19 Posted December 20, 2006 Posted December 20, 2006 It is ok for the national media to give incorrect numbers......London Fletcher has TWO defensive Touchdowns. He returned the fumble by Brady in the season opener and then the 1st game after the bye week, he returned a Bret Favre interception for TD against Green Bay. 872962[/snapback] My bad, that was actually taken right from NFL.com
Dibs Posted December 20, 2006 Posted December 20, 2006 .......Schobel piles up inconsequential sack totals against average tackles or in garbage time.....873332[/snapback] You lose my interest and respect when instead of explaining how good Freeney is you attempt to irrationally besmirch Schobel. Here is a link from a week or two ago showing what you say to be a fallacy. Schobel does not have to be crap for Freeney to be a better player. Also.....and I'd think this concept might be a bit too difficult for you to grasp......Freeney does not have to have a better year, every year, to be considered the better player.
Bill from NYC Posted December 20, 2006 Posted December 20, 2006 You lose my interest and respect when instead of explaining how good Freeney is you attempt to irrationally besmirch Schobel. Here is a link from a week or two ago showing what you say to be a fallacy. Schobel does not have to be crap for Freeney to be a better player. Also.....and I'd think this concept might be a bit too difficult for you to grasp......Freeney does not have to have a better year, every year, to be considered the better player. 873618[/snapback] The sad part is, Freeney is WAY more of a "high motor" player than Schobel. I hope that this b.s. term is put to rest at some point. Imo, nobody would refer to Schobel as "high motor" if he happened to be black, and this in itself is a sad thing (however unintentional).
Hammond Posted December 21, 2006 Posted December 21, 2006 You know some of you guys here are the reason why people around the country mock Buffalo. I am a proud Bills fan, but I sure as hell dont have my head buried up the butt pipe of the players. I could argue Reggie Wayne and Lee Evans, but Dwight Freeney and Aaron Schobel is simply laughable............That is like comparing the "Titanic" to "Dude Where's My Car" for goodness sakes..... Please enough already........Schobel made the pro bowl, and we are Bills fans, so let's all be happy, but trying to compare him to Freeney is as crazy as believing we will make the playoffs this season. Guys, Reality check, puleeezeee
Dibs Posted December 21, 2006 Posted December 21, 2006 You know some of you guys here are the reason why people around the country mock Buffalo. I am a proud Bills fan, but I sure as hell dont have my head buried up the butt pipe of the players. I could argue Reggie Wayne and Lee Evans, but Dwight Freeney and Aaron Schobel is simply laughable............That is like comparing the "Titanic" to "Dude Where's My Car" for goodness sakes..... Please enough already........Schobel made the pro bowl, and we are Bills fans, so let's all be happy, but trying to compare him to Freeney is as crazy as believing we will make the playoffs this season. Guys, Reality check, puleeezeee 873775[/snapback] You know some of you guys here are the reason that people around the country mock Buffalo fans. I am a proud Bills fan, but I sure as hell dont have my head buried up my own butt pipe. I could argue, but I won't. I'll just keep on stating my opinion regardless of opposing argument. Please enough already........obviously not from me......I'm happy to again state my own opinion as if it was sooooo obviously the only one worth having. Any counter thoughts are obviously moronic & we should all just stop with this after I have had the last word. Guys, Reality check, puleeezeee
The Jokeman Posted December 21, 2006 Posted December 21, 2006 You know some of you guys here are the reason why people around the country mock Buffalo. I am a proud Bills fan, but I sure as hell dont have my head buried up the butt pipe of the players. I could argue Reggie Wayne and Lee Evans, but Dwight Freeney and Aaron Schobel is simply laughable............That is like comparing the "Titanic" to "Dude Where's My Car" for goodness sakes..... Please enough already........Schobel made the pro bowl, and we are Bills fans, so let's all be happy, but trying to compare him to Freeney is as crazy as believing we will make the playoffs this season. Guys, Reality check, puleeezeee 873775[/snapback] I'll admit that Aaron Schobel is not in the same class as Dwight Freeney but they do offer similar things in what they can and can not do. Although he hasn't registered them this year I think Freeney's a far better pass rusher yet if you look at their stats it would appear that Schobel's a far better run supporter having registered 346 tackles in his career compared to Freeney's 174. At the same time I think your comparison is too harsh. Schobel is argueably one of the top 10 - 15 DEs in the NFL where Freeny probably ranks in the top 5.
ganesh Posted December 21, 2006 Posted December 21, 2006 I'll admit that Aaron Schobel is not in the same class as Dwight Freeney but they do offer similar things in what they can and can not do. Although he hasn't registered them this year I think Freeney's a far better pass rusher yet if you look at their stats it would appear that Schobel's a far better run supporter having registered 346 in his career compared to Freeney's 174. At the same time I think your comparison is too harsh. Schobel is argueably one of the top 10 - 15 DEs in the NFL where Freeny probably ranks in the top 5. 873996[/snapback] I think Freeney came into the spotlight because he made game-changing plays that were on highlight reels. Once your are a known player, you are a known player....Period...Also, being in a team that consistently goes to the playoffs makes you known around too.....like Freeney and Bruce Smith was when he was here. Unfortunately for Schoebel, neither he made game changing plays early on in his career nor the bills not going to the playoffs in the last six years has helped him....
Hammond Posted December 21, 2006 Posted December 21, 2006 I'll admit that Aaron Schobel is not in the same class as Dwight Freeney but they do offer similar things in what they can and can not do. Although he hasn't registered them this year I think Freeney's a far better pass rusher yet if you look at their stats it would appear that Schobel's a far better run supporter having registered 346 tackles in his career compared to Freeney's 174. At the same time I think your comparison is too harsh. Schobel is argueably one of the top 10 - 15 DEs in the NFL where Freeny probably ranks in the top 5. 873996[/snapback] I cant really argue with anything you have said. Nevertheless, you can't accurately assess each players' strength based on their tackles. Because, unllike Buffalo, most of Indy's opponents dont run as much because they are usually trailing and have to play catch up. And when we are talking about tackles, I believe it is much easier to tackle someone when you are single-teamed, rather than double-teamed or have slide-protection moved towards whatever side of the field you are lined up on. Last time I checked, no team ever double teamed or slid their protection towards Schobel.........And dare I say that there have been few times in the past seasons that teams have had to abandon their run and air-it-out because they were stuck in a points-hole because of Buffalo's high-octane, high scoring offense!...........But aside from that I generally say that your assessment is fair and on-point
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