PFW - Clements is as good as gone

[Robert Paulson]

i would love to keep nate but what motivation does he have after he hits the big one- we saw last year what a un motivated nate looks like

 

i would be happy with k thomas/ a yabouty fighting for the starter postion with the other as the nickel

 

k thomas has impressed me- he is a vet and should be resigned cheaply

[Ozymandius]

i would love to keep nate but what motivation does he have after he hits the big one- we saw last year what a un motivated nate looks like

871315[/snapback]

Don't underestimate the impact of poor coaching and team morale.

[HudsonValleyBillsFan]

I wonder about this too. Could they have given him a contract that didn't include the no franchise clause? If the answer is yes, then Marv Levy has made his first fatal error as a GM.

You always protect ur value and don't put any credence into "promises".

Marv is a good guy and i know he is smart, and i don't care about his age.

I do question whether or not he has the balls to be an NFL gm.

 

 

 

You got that right.  If it is written into his contract, can anyone explain why the Bills would give away the only leverage they had to keep the premiere free agent from just walking out the door? 

 

They did not have to do this when they tagged him last year.  It makes absolutely no business sense to just let one of your best assets get away for nothing, when you had the tools to prevent that from occuring in the first place.  That is just a dumb move if that ends up being the case, which no one knows for sure if it is. 

 

If Nate is dead set on hitting the open market to test his true worth, we have nothing to stop him, no matter how much we offer him.  He could always come back to the Bills offer if that's what he wanted, but once he hits the open market he is gone.  Reading the tea leaves from some recent commments Ralph has made indicate that no matter the cap space available, there is not going to be a spending spree this offseason.  He practically came out and said it yesterday with his comments about the team being one good draft away from being in the playoff mix.  I think he's setting us up to lower our expectations.

871022[/snapback]

[Fla Bills Fan]

What college players fit the Tampa-2?

870834[/snapback]

Ashton Youboty - 2006 Draft projection 1st-2nd round

[PatPatPatSack]

likely hinder our ability to get FAs.

 

870874[/snapback]

 

That might be true if indeed it wasn't just about the money. However it is just about the money.

 

Or better said, it's about the money. And the amount of it.

 

Money. Biggest pile, soonest wins. Everything else is the nice stuff you say after you get the biggest pile.

 

 

Ever go to a garage sale and see 2 guys making over 50k dickering over a quarter? Ever buy something on sale? Would you move to make 3 million dollars more?

 

I would and so would you. So just sit back and see if we can put the biggest pile of money in front of Nate. If we can't or don't want to - We just put the money back in Ralph's pocket. Remember, he didnt spend to the cap this year. No reason to assume that he will next year. So many unknowns. but simple rules. Most money wins.

 

Don't spoil this great fun by obsessing over someone else's pile of money.

 

The 53 man roster we have next year? Them's my bills.

[Koufax]

Or we simply use some of the 40+mil in cap space we have, and make Nate the highest paid CB in football.  Then he doesn't even have to test the open market, we just made him the most expensive CB in football.  Done.

 

Here's why that is a very good strategy...Nate is top 3 in the NFL this year.  He's 26 years old.  A 20 mil signing bonus (50 mil total contract) over 5 years + base salaries approximates to 10 mil per year (This can be adjusted with roster bonuses etc.).  Given the expected rise in the salary cap over the next 5 years,  and Nate's pure talent, I can live with that deal.

 

Nate is a star, and the reason we have won a few games this year.  He ought to be rewarded with the richest contract for a CB in the NFL.  It sends a great message to the team.

871202[/snapback]

 

Only if what we by having Nate instead of Ashton - McGee is worth more than what else we could get for that money. Spending "whatever it takes" because "we gotta keep him" (not your words, just a general sentiment) is something Marv is smart enough to avoid, and make each decision based on pros and cons.

 

Because Nate is better than Ashton and McGee and KT (also a free agent) he adds value to our team. But he adds value based on how much better than Ashton/McGee he is since both of those players are signed and one sits if Nate is back.

 

I don't think the value of that difference is worth as much as 50 mil would get us as a guard upgrade over Preston or Gandy, or what 25 mil each would get us at two upgraded positions, etc. Spend smart, draft smart, and play hard and smart.

 

I'd love to have Nate back if it works, and think we should make a pretty big offer to try to keep him. But I think it is very likey that Dan Snyder will offer Nate more than he is WORTH to the Bills. In that case thank him for his service and move on to building a Super Bowl winner without him.

[Pyrite Gal]

That might be true if indeed it wasn't just about the money. However it is just about the money.

 

Or better said, it's about the money. And the amount of it.

 

Money. Biggest pile, soonest wins. Everything else is the nice stuff you say after you get the biggest pile.

Ever go to a garage sale and see 2 guys making over 50k dickering over a quarter? Ever buy something on sale? Would you move to make 3 million dollars more?

 

I would and so would you. So just sit back and see if we can put the biggest pile of money in front of Nate. If we can't or don't want to - We just put the money back in Ralph's pocket. Remember, he didnt spend to the cap this year. No reason to assume that he will next year. So many unknowns. but simple rules. Most money wins.

 

Don't spoil this great fun by obsessing over someone else's pile of money.

 

The 53 man roster we have next year? Them's my bills.

871676[/snapback]

 

Actually its not ALL about the money, its actually mostly about the money.

 

This relatively small distinction can be very important when the amount of money offered is relatively the same (which they often are in NFL contracts as eveyone ia operating under the same slary cap).

 

There often can be real differences in the amount of money offered as different teams assess players differently, may be more risk averse particularly given injury history and concerns, or simply have different team building strategies/

 

However these gross differences usually cut 90% or more of teams out of the race for a particular player and of the few teams that are left they are really offering about the same amount of money for a player.

 

It is in the consideration between these few viable options (and it only takes one offer for a player to make more money than he thought was possible( where most things are equal financially and it comes down to decisions like whether a city seems to be a good place to live, the seeming quality of the organization and simply whether the player gets a good vibe or not.

 

It is because of this equation that the Bills have been able to fairly recently sign sought after FAs like TKO or a player like Triplett who has several teams publicly interested in him can visit Buffalo first and then simply decide not to do anymore visits.

 

People often theorize that Buffalo is at some great disadvantage in the FA pool because players do not want to come to our small town. However, it is the fact that Ralph's money is as green as anyone else's that in fact we can get into the game to bid for just about any FA we can afford. Once it gets to that point, there are variations on which teams and their owners are liquid enough to make a cpmtractual bid for a player though it is the same amount of money in total they are comfortable upfronting the money and the layer likes that advantage.

 

Hpwever, with the new CBA giving teams much more latitude in how they use their money and the revenues behind the new CBA giving the economic machines more cash to play with, even this advantage is now diminished in the new economics of the NFL.

 

Particularly since the Bills are looking for players they deem to be of a reasonable or high moral character, playing the game as straight-shooters is of real value to this team in getting good FAs.

[daquixers_is_back]

Something that I havent seen anyone mention yet (sorry if I overlooked it) ... but by letting Clements go just because we dont want to pay him big money, sends a message to all Free Agents that Buffalo is not a place to go if you want money. Especially now that we have let Winfield, Williams, Washington, and Cowart all go ... mostly due to money.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

But the rules have changed since Jones was being franchised. Now, if I am correct, one can only be tagged two years in a row, and then if tagged a third time must be paid the average of the top 5 PLAYERs, not just at his position. May not be exact, but something like that.

 

And this clause was absolutely put in writing, as was Alexanders last year.

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And you know this HOW? The Bills never release contract terms.

[Bill from NYC]

And you know this HOW? The Bills never release contract terms.

871776[/snapback]

 

Joe, there HAS been a rule change wrt the franchise tag. It MIGHT be that after the 1st year franchised, the player gets the top 5 QB pay instead of his regular position. Someone will know the exact rule.

[Phil Indablanc]

I hope we get him back, and am hopeful that with the team surge he will wan to stay.  But if we get into an irrational spending contest with Dan Snyder we are going to lose (whether we win the contest or not).

 

Just like when A-Rod left the Mariners for the Rangers for $252 million, it was unfortunate for the Mariners, but it would have been worse to pay him $253 and keep him.

 

I really really want Nate back, and think we are in a position to offer him a LOT of money.  But if the Redskins get crazy, I think we can find a way to move on, and think putting Ashton in for Nate is not a big enough downgrade to merit completely breaking the bank and having our hands tied for being able to make other moves.

 

I don't view this as a Pat Williams moment at all.  We will definitely court Nate, treat him right, and make him a big offer, and hope he accepts it.  If he doesn't take it we will pencil in Ashton and Terrance as our corners, and then look for other places to improve our team to compensate for the downgrade at corner.

870891[/snapback]

 

"But if the Redskins get crazy"

 

Your a funny guy.

[plenzmd1]

And you know this HOW? The Bills never release contract terms.

871776[/snapback]

 

Joe, there is no way to KNOW with 100% certainty i guess(unless we see the actual contract) that thi sclause is in writing, but I would give just about any odds that it is. No agent worth his salt would have taken the word of 87 yr old owner and an 81 yr old GM as to promices for next season, better chance both of em not here the next Feb. than both of em being here.

 

And just to play devils advocate. Marv talks about character all the time, really thing he would go back on his word?? Really? Would you even suggest that he should? I mean crimminy, he gave his WORD(which I am sure is in writing). Remember, Marv is part of the greatest generation, when everything didn't have to be written down, when it was good enough for a man to look it you in the eye and say heres the deal.

[PatPatPatSack]

Actually its not ALL about the money, its actually mostly about the money.

 

 

 

It is in the consideration between these few viable options (and it only takes one offer for a player to make more money than he thought was possible( where most things are equal financially and it comes down to decisions like whether a city seems to be a good place to live, the seeming quality of the organization and simply whether the player gets  a good vibe or not.

 

It is because of this equation that the  Bills have been able to fairly recently sign sought after FAs like TKO or a player like Triplett who has several teams publicly interested in him can visit Buffalo first and then simply decide not to do anymore visits.

 

871684[/snapback]

 

 

Bills sign players like Triplett based on pile o' green. They just say, "offer lasts until midnight". That's what makes them stop looking. And don't think the agents are not at the same time out making calls to other stops that say, "don't waste my time, but are you willing to top this?" If no, then I won't bother you, you don't bother me.

 

Quality of life, schools and etc. have 0 implication. We wish to think they do. There are no intangilbles, just straight up money.

 

Now, what about the patriots you say? It IS possible for a player to take less guarenteed money (pile o' green) to play in a situation that they think will make them ultimately more successful. However, I submit, that is just looking for a payoff later on down the line - a bigger pile of green.

 

Like a backup getting a starting slot. It's not the pride thing. It's the fact that becoming a starter means starter money. Maybe even superstar money. Can't make plays if your'e on the bench etc.

 

I still say that is all about money. The only subtlety is the schedule of payments/incentives.

 

Last point. Since the agents structure the deal. Agents get paid % out of the take. Agents don't take payments in % of quality of life. Money man, it's the only thing.