bluv Posted December 13, 2006 Posted December 13, 2006 I will wager that JP is in the top 5 next season - not on some ESPN asswipe's website, but in actual yardage, TDs, completion %, efficiency rating, etc. The naysayers & JP-bashers will look stupid, and will all feel shame. 865380[/snapback] Then they will jump on his bandwagon and act like he should have been given more serious consideration in his draft class being that he had the strongest arm and the fastest legs but played at a smaller school. Has anyone noticed how the whispers regarding the Bills should have taken Leinart or Cutler have died down quite a bit...the haters are hoping JP struggles for a game or 2 so they can bring those names up. I hope JP comes out and have a bust out year like Drew Brees has and then he can come back like Mike Jones: BACK THEN YOU DIDN'T WANT ME, NOW I'M HOT YOU'RE ALL ON ME!!
Bungee Jumper Posted December 13, 2006 Posted December 13, 2006 Still behind Leinart, Roethlisberger, Vince Young, Grossman, Eli Manning, Michael Vick. I believe he's played better, and more consistently than all of these other qbs THIS YEAR. I have to respectfully disagree with ESPN's rankings. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2695034 865304[/snapback] Ranked...by Gary !@#$ing Horton. Who cares?
bills4bowl21 Posted December 13, 2006 Posted December 13, 2006 This site had Jay Cutler ranked 23rd before he ever threw a pass in a regulation game. Enough said. 865718[/snapback] its clear that ESPN never gives any admiration to the bills..so why even get worked up about all this? we all know he is better than jay cutler i mean come on cutler has only played 2 games so far and didnt do all that great to be ahead of JP
1billsfan Posted December 13, 2006 Posted December 13, 2006 And Losman has not given me the impression of a true field general, 865651[/snapback] You can't get an impression looking at numbers. Losman has looked every bit the field general during these past 6 games. Period end of story.
syhuang Posted December 13, 2006 Posted December 13, 2006 Brady bombs a game and he's moved back 1 position... freakiin sports analysts... 865618[/snapback] Tom Brady ???....... move back 1 position ..... ??? Say it ain't so!!! This should not be allowed. They can not move Brady back. Don't they know who Brady is? Sky is falling.
stuckincincy Posted December 13, 2006 Posted December 13, 2006 You can't get an impression looking at numbers. Losman has looked every bit the field general during these past 6 games. Period end of story. 865756[/snapback] Re-read my commentary, 1bills...
MDH Posted December 13, 2006 Posted December 13, 2006 But those numbers, stats, however useful, subordinate to a feeling of the flow of the contest. 865651[/snapback] Again, without having seen the Bills play even once this year how are you getting a "feeling for the flow of the contest." I must be missing something here because this makes no sense, whatsoever, to me.
The Senator Posted December 13, 2006 Posted December 13, 2006 That would be nice, but 14 tds, 10 ints in 13 games, with a number of those touchdown passes being a bomb or a receiver's nifty YAC moves does not a dominant top-5 qb portend. To me so far - he's a good long-arm guy, and he's consistent enough to not be a particular liability, but a field general that can force a win - not yet. He hasn't shown any notable red-zone moxie. Sorry...but I don't think I am bashing him or are being a naysayer...and there is no reason that he won't have a better season next year. The Bills offense just yet doesn't have the powerful line or the gritty save-the-qb's-fanny receivers to get JP into a top 5 spot, IMO. 865591[/snapback] You really don't feel that JP was the "field general" that forced the last-second wins against Houston & Jacksonville, or agree that his game is vastly improved behind the revamped O-Line? Then you will still feel shame. I think he'll be one of the best in the league next season, if not the best!
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 13, 2006 Posted December 13, 2006 Again, without having seen the Bills play even once this year how are you getting a "feeling for the flow of the contest." I must be missing something here because this makes no sense, whatsoever, to me. 865821[/snapback] You don't have to "see" them... I can probably get a grasp just by listening to the game and then backing it up with the actual stats... Take hockey for example, true this isn't hockey... It doesn't take a fool to understand that a "fire drill" is going on when you see the shots are going 18-3...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 13, 2006 Posted December 13, 2006 You really don't feel that JP was the "field general" that forced the last-second wins against Houston & Jacksonville, or agree that his game is vastly improved behind the revamped O-Line? Then you will still feel shame. I think he'll be one of the best in the league next season, if not the best! 865843[/snapback] For what it is worth... The HOU and JAX game is at least one more than Rex Grossman ever did!
stuckincincy Posted December 13, 2006 Posted December 13, 2006 Again, without having seen the Bills play even once this year how are you getting a "feeling for the flow of the contest." I must be missing something here because this makes no sense, whatsoever, to me. 865821[/snapback] Just a thing acquired over time. Many resources exist - nfl.com's play-by-play for example. After years of seeing football, one gets and idea how the offensive (and defensive) trends are starting to play out. Tip: Watch the stance of an OL, gauge it throughout a game...pass? Run? Setting their weight on their heels or toes? Close or wide legs? See if the TE has an ear cocked to the Center's line calling. Closer or wider to the tackle? Watch the stance of the rbs, or a angle of a motion man's helmet. Lots of stuff. One can glean changes depending on score differential and the time elapsed in a game. Believe it or not, after watching it for so long, I'm pretty good at predicting what the next offensive play is, or if a defense is gonna blitz or close on a particular offensive player or whatever. Ask my wife...she shakes her head at my correct predictions of the offensive play that is executed. I hope you don't think me boastful. There is really not much new in the game...everything that need be said was written down on two 5 x 7 cards 50 years ago.. Football has its surprises - the chess moves - for sure, and the moves made at a moment sure do matter. That seasoned coaching staffs year after year blow the control of the time clock - and we all have seen this- keeps it interesting, among other goofs. Football is a well-diagnosed, incessantly studied thing - that's why teams make their offensive plan cards for a quarter or so plays, or more in advance. And they know the business better than you or I. There is a fair degree of reliable predictability. NFL football, much as we enjoy is, is not "rocket surgery"...and it can be pontificated upon from afar.
BuffaloBob Posted December 13, 2006 Posted December 13, 2006 Just a thing acquired over time. Many resources exist - nfl.com's play-by-play for example. After years of seeing football, one gets and idea how the offensive (and defensive) trends are starting to play out. Tip: Watch the stance of an OL, gauge it throughout a game...pass? Run? Setting their weight on their heels or toes? Close or wide legs? See if the TE has an ear cocked to the Center's line calling. Closer or wider to the tackle? Watch the stance of the rbs, or a angle of a motion man's helmet. Lots of stuff. One can glean changes depending on score differential and the time elapsed in a game. Believe it or not, after watching it for so long, I'm pretty good at predicting what the next offensive play is, or if a defense is gonna blitz or close on a particular offensive player or whatever. Ask my wife...she shakes her head at my correct predictions of the offensive play that is executed. I hope you don't think me boastful. NFL football, much as we enjoy is, is not "rocket surgery"...and it can be pontificated upon from afar. 865873[/snapback] With all do respect, NOTHING that those stats told you demonstrated the calm, cool demeanor of JP when he went out and led the team to victory in those two games, and nearly pulled it off again against San Diego notwithstanding some not so great clock management exhibited by our head coach and another poor performance against the run by our defense. It was a thing of beauty to watch. The kid came out for those two final drives, and willed the Bills to victory against Jax and Houston. I was sure the Bills would fold or Frig things up. He made amazing throws and his touch in the short game was perfect. He never panicked, took what they gave him until the right time to go for the strike, and gave that team exactly what it needed. Pontificating from afar is all well and good, but assessing the demeanor of a young and developing QB based on stats and NFL.com play-by-play just ain't gonna cut it. The kid has what it takes, and as they continue to expand the offense and give him more leash, he is going to be great. You can see this team starting to believe in him. It's a beautiful thing.
eball Posted December 13, 2006 Posted December 13, 2006 That would be nice, but 14 tds, 10 ints in 13 games, with a number of those touchdown passes being a bomb or a receiver's nifty YAC moves does not a dominant top-5 qb portend. To me so far - he's a good long-arm guy, and he's consistent enough to not be a particular liability, but a field general that can force a win - not yet. He hasn't shown any notable red-zone moxie. Sorry...but I don't think I am bashing him or are being a naysayer...and there is no reason that he won't have a better season next year. The Bills offense just yet doesn't have the powerful line or the gritty save-the-qb's-fanny receivers to get JP into a top 5 spot, IMO. 865591[/snapback] I realize you're not bashing, and I'm not (hopefully) being overly defensive, but I would suggest that JP's red zone "moxie" has been pretty impressive of late. I'd venture a guess that the Bills have walked away with TDs in an above-average number of red zone possessions over the past six weeks, and JP has yet to throw a red zone INT this season. I don't know that I'll predict top 5 for the kid, but a solid spot in the top 10 is a definite possibility.
stuckincincy Posted December 13, 2006 Posted December 13, 2006 With all do respect, NOTHING that those stats told you demonstrated the calm, cool demeanor of JP when he went out and led the team to victory in those two games, and nearly pulled it off again against San Diego notwithstanding some not so great clock management exhibited by our head coach and another poor performance against the run by our defense. It was a thing of beauty to watch. The kid came out for those two final drives, and willed the Bills to victory against Jax and Houston. I was sure the Bills would fold or Frig things up. He made amazing throws and his touch in the short game was perfect. He never panicked, took what they gave him until the right time to go for the strike, and gave that team exactly what it needed. Pontificating from afar is all well and good, but assessing the demeanor of a young and developing QB based on stats and NFL.com play-by-play just ain't gonna cut it. The kid has what it takes, and as they continue to expand the offense and give him more leash, he is going to be great. You can see this team starting to believe in him. It's a beautiful thing. 865889[/snapback] I've previously voiced my observational limitations, Bob. But given the tools available to me, and years of watching this stuff, I remain firm in not agreeing with this thread's main assertion - that JP is going to tear up the league next year. What would you have me, and we other expatriates do? Turn our back on the club and dismiss them from interest because we not are not able to see every snap they execute? Take for gospel the new crowd that watches every game but wouldn't recognize a trap play unless one of their grandparents knocked them in the head?
MDH Posted December 13, 2006 Posted December 13, 2006 Tip: Watch the stance of an OL, gauge it throughout a game...pass? Run? Setting their weight on their heels or toes? Close or wide legs? See if the TE has an ear cocked to the Center's line calling. Closer or wider to the tackle? Watch the stance of the rbs, or a angle of a motion man's helmet. Lots of stuff. 865873[/snapback] You're not telling me anything new here, like many here I played football and have watched it my entire life. But take a look at all the stuff above. Guess what, it's all visual. It can't be gleaned from stats, play by play on NFL.com or by listening to the radio (which I don't think you do anyway). This is exactly why your opinion on the mater really isn't valid (even if I do happen to agree with it). I hope you don't think me boastful. 865873[/snapback] I’m not trying to bash you. I think you’re a bright enough guy but your opinion on all things pertaining to what happens on the field when the Buffalo Bills play means exactly zero to me. Watch the games, formulate an opinion based off of first hand analysis and then I’ll be more than happy to think your opinion is a valid one.
MDH Posted December 13, 2006 Posted December 13, 2006 I've previously voiced my observational limitations, Bob. But given the tools available to me, and years of watching this stuff, I remain firm in not agreeing with this thread's main assertion - that JP is going to tear up the league next year. 865909[/snapback] Anybody who reads the paper, reads these boards and watches highlights can safely claim the above. But it doesn't substitute for actually watching the kid play and then forming an opinion. Hell, my wife, who hasn’t watched a down of football this year could say the same thing just based off what she overhears me say from the other room. Would her opinion really be a valid one on this matter?
Dibs Posted December 14, 2006 Posted December 14, 2006 Anybody who reads the paper, reads these boards and watches highlights can safely claim the above. But it doesn't substitute for actually watching the kid play and then forming an opinion. Hell, my wife, who hasn’t watched a down of football this year could say the same thing just based off what she overhears me say from the other room. Would her opinion really be a valid one on this matter? 865998[/snapback] You seem to associate watching the game to being able to logically analyse, assess & impartially dissect what is happening on the field. Re-wording your point...... A moronic idiot who watches the game can have a valid opinion.....A genius who doesn't watch the game cannot have a valid opinion. I know you weren't stating things in such a polarized manner bet basically that is your premise. I totally disagree with that concept. I get to listen to the games(& watch on very odd occasions).....I watch the highlights.....& I piece together the opinions of others(rationally using logic etc to accept some opinions over others). Most people who watch a game have no real idea of the intricacies anyway. I personally am only just learning to analyse the OL performances....basically if I watch a game, my opinion on the OL could not realistically go any deeper than...."They played well"....based on the QB having time to throw. If I wanted to give an opinion on how Preston played.....I'd defer to the opinions of others.....& if those opinions were all pretty much in unison on the matter, I'd adopt the opinion as my own. Simply......I do not EVER need to see footage of the great RB Jim Brown to have the valid opinion that he was the greatest RB of all time.
MDH Posted December 14, 2006 Posted December 14, 2006 You seem to associate watching the game to being able to logically analyse, assess & impartially dissect what is happening on the field. Re-wording your point...... A moronic idiot who watches the game can have a valid opinion.....A genius who doesn't watch the game cannot have a valid opinion. I know you weren't stating things in such a polarized manner bet basically that is your premise. 866055[/snapback] That's not what I'm saying at all. Obviously, everybody who watches the games doesn't see the same thing and doesn't form the same opinion. In addition, everybody who watches the games also has a different knowledge base from which to form these opinions. Forming an opinion that I would consider as valid requires two things: A solid base of football knowledge and careful analysis (or in the casual fans case, careful viewing) of the football game. Obviously the degree in which these two things occur determines how much I value an opinion. If someone like Jaws breaks down game footage I’ll value his opinion more than someone who has watched football all his life and watches all the games a single time (although the latter could certainly still have a valid opinion). If someone doesn’t have much knowledge or doesn’t see the game I’ll just throw their opinion in the garbage.
Dibs Posted December 14, 2006 Posted December 14, 2006 If someone doesn’t have much knowledge or doesn’t see the game I’ll just throw their opinion in the garbage. 866101[/snapback] It's this bit I take issue with though. I like to think that even though I may not see a game, I can formulate an educated and informed opinion based on listening to the radio, analysing the stats(both of the game & historical), seeing some highlights and carefully listening to other's opinions & analysis. Hell, that's probably a damned sight more than what most TV analysts do to formulate their 'expert' opinions which then get regurgitated by thousands.
MDH Posted December 14, 2006 Posted December 14, 2006 It's this bit I take issue with though.I like to think that even though I may not see a game, I can formulate an educated and informed opinion based on listening to the radio, analysing the stats(both of the game & historical), seeing some highlights and carefully listening to other's opinions & analysis. Hell, that's probably a damned sight more than what most TV analysts do to formulate their 'expert' opinions which then get regurgitated by thousands. 866225[/snapback] To me, this is akin to saying that you liked a book when you only read the reviews. Sure, you'll be informed about the book and will know the story and some of the themeatic value, but that doesn't mean that you would have agreed with the reviewer's opinion of the book (or perhaps gotten something else entirely out of it.) There are things you just can't get from reading someone else's opinion about a subject. That first hand experience is essential in formulating your own, informed, opinion.
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