IBTG81 Posted October 9, 2004 Posted October 9, 2004 You know, it dawned on me this afternoon... Since Kerry is so familiar with Bush's holdings, maybe what we need to do is take a look at Kerry's holdings. I'm sure his wife and he won't mind opening up their books to show how much they're like Joe America. 62832[/snapback] Yeah, like that will ever happen. We have a better chance of finding BF in Indiana a girlfriend.
IUBillsFan Posted October 9, 2004 Posted October 9, 2004 My take on that exchange was "Jesus Christ, he has so much money and so many business interests, that he doesn't even know what he owns!" "WTF!" "He doesn't identify with the average joe at all!" . He didn't deny owning a timber company, he was just surprised by it, like he wasn't sure if he does or not. And me being an average joe, that didn't sit well with me. To me it made him look like a filthy rich, pompous, ignorant man. I mean, I know what I own and what I don't own, most of working America does, right? I know Kerry is filthy rich too, but he doesn't come off as a pompous, ignorant man. Don't flame me, those were just my immediate thoughts after seeing that timber exchange, I'll refrain from saying anything about the wood between Bush's ears . 62737[/snapback] No offense but if you know EXACTLY what you own the only thing you have is a savings account. I don't think that is true.
/dev/null Posted October 9, 2004 Posted October 9, 2004 It will also prove to be one of the very reasons Americans will re-elect GW in November. Barring any catastrophic world or political events, this election is over. Dems will have 4 more years to practice their hate... This election was over before it started,Kerry didnt have a chance and he still doesnt.That should put a smile on Hillary's face :I starred in Brokeback Mountain: 62833[/snapback] thats odd, considering the economy's been bumpy the last couple years and the situation in iraq is turning into a mess, this was (and still is) kerry's election to lose
Mike in Syracuse Posted October 9, 2004 Posted October 9, 2004 The lumber royalties came from an oil and gas holding in GWs portfolio that also happens to own a timber company. GW is right on target with his comback. So yea, Factcheck.com was right, that Kerry was right, and completely misleading at the same time. It was a lame comment that set GW up to lay down the hammer of superior personability. Kerry made a wonderful straight man last night... That so many of you find it a disgrace, and not humorous, only shows the depths of your personal hatred for the man. It also shows that you are either 1) willing to ignore true humor for political motive, or 2) you do not actually have a sense of humor. Because this is the real truth: "Need some wood?" will go down as one of the funniest comebacks in presidential debate history. It will also prove to be one of the very reasons Americans will re-elect GW in November. Barring any catastrophic world or political events, this election is over. Dems will have 4 more years to practice their hate... 62819[/snapback] Thank you for pointing out our collective ignorance. I guess we're lucky to have an impartial person like yourself to explain to us what we saw and how we should interpret it. Please keep it up, I find it very entertaining.
Mike in Syracuse Posted October 9, 2004 Posted October 9, 2004 You know, it dawned on me this afternoon... Since Kerry is so familiar with Bush's holdings, maybe what we need to do is take a look at Kerry's holdings. I'm sure his wife and he won't mind opening up their books to show how much they're like Joe America. 62832[/snapback] All you'd discover is that they're both multi-millionaires pretending to common people. How many people do you know that own four or more houses? How many people do you know that have owned baseball teams? This isn't about us, hasn't been for a long time.
alg Posted October 9, 2004 Posted October 9, 2004 Thank you for pointing out our collective ignorance. I guess we're lucky to have an impartial person like yourself to explain to us what we saw and how we should interpret it. Please keep it up, I find it very entertaining. 62866[/snapback] You are most welcome, and I will continue to do my best. You must understand, however, that there is no antidote for some forms of ignorance, so success in your case is not assured.
BadDad Posted October 9, 2004 Posted October 9, 2004 That's exactly the response Kerry was hoping for, Tracy. The truth is, people who have the same kind of financial holdings as Bush and Kerry are not always aware of precisely where their holdings lie because they generally have financial advisors handling such things. They simply do not handle their day-to-day financials in such detail because it's neither a good idea nor a plausible one. I would be willing to bet my next paycheck that we could find companies that Kerry owns, of which he has no personal knowledge. I hope you're not relying on the fact that Kerry is the average Joe America as a result of this, because he and his wife are so rich it'll make you puke. They are so far removed from mainstream America that it's downright incredulous that he would pull a stunt like this. He BANKS on the fact that Joe America is a lazy-ass couch potato non-thinking moron. Unfortunately, he's more right than wrong about that. It was just a strategy on Kerry's behalf, and he got what he wanted; folks like yourself, who have no knowledge of what it's like to have tremendous wealth, to feel like people with tremendous wealth are bad. 62754[/snapback] Hola Paco, que pasa? Digame, en un P y G, que es el numero fijo de activos que Ud. determina como el numero de una persona rico?
/dev/null Posted October 9, 2004 Posted October 9, 2004 Hola Paco, que pasa? Digame, en un P y G, que es el numero fijo de activos que Ud. determina como el numero de una persona rico? 62978[/snapback] yo quero taco bell?
Paco Posted October 10, 2004 Posted October 10, 2004 Hola Paco, que pasa? Digame, en un P y G, que es el numero fijo de activos que Ud. determina como el numero de una persona rico? 62978[/snapback] Hey Baddad...I'm afraid your question looks very much like some of the language I see written at the bottom of sex spam emails I get. Care to post that in English?
BadDad Posted October 10, 2004 Posted October 10, 2004 Hey Baddad...I'm afraid your question looks very much like some of the language I see written at the bottom of sex spam emails I get. Care to post that in English? 63042[/snapback] Sorry I thought that since you use "Paco" maybe you spoke Spanish, btw according to my kids I am a BadDad hense the name in case you were wondering. What I was asking is in a P & L what is the number that you consider when determining if somebody is rich or not?
Captain America Posted October 10, 2004 Posted October 10, 2004 This election was over before it started,Kerry didnt have a chance and he still doesnt.That should put a smile on Hillary's face :I starred in Brokeback Mountain: 62833[/snapback] thats odd, considering the economy's been bumpy the last couple years and the situation in iraq is turning into a mess, this was (and still is) kerry's election to lose 62860[/snapback] When did you ever see your liberal report any good news about anything..Bush wins.
Alaska Darin Posted October 10, 2004 Posted October 10, 2004 Sorry I thought that since you use "Paco" maybe you spoke Spanish, btw according to my kids I am a BadDad hense the name in case you were wondering. What I was asking is in a P & L what is the number that you consider when determining if somebody is rich or not? 63105[/snapback] It's just not that easy to determine. I can tell you I have friends who live in the Bay Area and D.C. who have a couple of kids in college who make over $200K and are hardly rich. That's the big problem with the current tax code and "Comrade" Kerry's interpretation of it. It reminds me of how slowly the government was to index rates on other things (IRAs, etc). It's just not a good system.
John from Riverside Posted October 10, 2004 Posted October 10, 2004 My take on that exchange was "Jesus Christ, he has so much money and so many business interests, that he doesn't even know what he owns!" "WTF!" "He doesn't identify with the average joe at all!" . He didn't deny owning a timber company, he was just surprised by it, like he wasn't sure if he does or not. And me being an average joe, that didn't sit well with me. To me it made him look like a filthy rich, pompous, ignorant man. I mean, I know what I own and what I don't own, most of working America does, right? I know Kerry is filthy rich too, but he doesn't come off as a pompous, ignorant man. Don't flame me, those were just my immediate thoughts after seeing that timber exchange, I'll refrain from saying anything about the wood between Bush's ears . 62737[/snapback] Christ.....I guess you called that one right Paco....
Mickey Posted October 10, 2004 Posted October 10, 2004 This, unfortunately, is one of those soundbites that will go completely over the head of Joe America. Three years ago Bush reported an income of $84 for a timber company, in which he apparently had a very small piece. The question is: DOES HE OWN THAT TIMBER COMPANY TODAY? That's what Kerry implied. That's what the audience inferred. And when America first hears that Bush DID own have a small part of a Timber company...three freakin' years ago...they will roll their eyes at Kerry for such a childish stab at trying to make a ridiculous point. This is what scares me most about Kerry. He will say anything and bank on the fact that Joe America is only paying quasi-attention. Unfortunately, he's right. And so all America saw last night was a side of Bush they found humorous and endearing after he delivered his "Need some wood?" comment. God help us if Kerry gets in. This guy will make Clinton seem standup. 62707[/snapback] No that is not the question and that is not what Kerry implied. Do you think he was trying to score some point over the bare fact that he owned a timber company? Of course not. What would be gained by that? The issue being debated was how Kerry's economic plan would effect small businesses. The Bushies claim it would raise taxes on X amount of small businesses but that depends on how you define "small businesses". Kerry was pointing out that the way they define it, Bush himself is a "small business" because he owned a small piece of a timber company. That artificially and misleadingly inflates the numbers used by the President. Ironically, the joke the President was trying to make, that having a such a small piece of a timber company hardly means he owns the company, was exactly Kerry's point. Owning such a small piece of a company doesn't make him a small business owner but that is the only way you get the ridiculous numbers Bush is using. Even the Wall Street Journal is on record that the Bush numbers on this issue are bogus. Lies, damn lies and statistics.
TracyLee Posted October 10, 2004 Posted October 10, 2004 The issue being debated was how Kerry's economic plan would effect small businesses. The Bushies claim it would raise taxes on X amount of small businesses but that depends on how you define "small businesses". Kerry was pointing out that the way they define it, Bush himself is a "small business" because he owned a small piece of a timber company. That artificially and misleadingly inflates the numbers used by the President. Ironically, the joke the President was trying to make, that having a such a small piece of a timber company hardly means he owns the company, was exactly Kerry's point. Owning such a small piece of a company doesn't make him a small business owner but that is the only way you get the ridiculous numbers Bush is using. Even the Wall Street Journal is on record that the Bush numbers on this issue are bogus. Lies, damn lies and statistics. 63210[/snapback] Okay Mickey, thanks for clarifying this in a sensible way, without any spin. I was having a little trouble wrapping my mind around exactly what was being inferred. I guess I was having a brain cramp !
Satan Posted October 10, 2004 Posted October 10, 2004 My take on that exchange was "Jesus Christ, he has so much money and so many business interests, that he doesn't even know what he owns!" "WTF!" "He doesn't identify with the average joe at all!" . He didn't deny owning a timber company, he was just surprised by it, like he wasn't sure if he does or not. And me being an average joe, that didn't sit well with me. To me it made him look like a filthy rich, pompous, ignorant man. I mean, I know what I own and what I don't own, most of working America does, right? I know Kerry is filthy rich too, but he doesn't come off as a pompous, ignorant man. Don't flame me, those were just my immediate thoughts after seeing that timber exchange, I'll refrain from saying anything about the wood between Bush's ears . 62737[/snapback] So your "take" was based on zero understand of any facts involved at all. You simply took some implied comment by Kerry as hard fact and extrapolated that into a negative opinion about Bush. Nothing like listening with an open mind, huh Tracy
Paco Posted October 10, 2004 Posted October 10, 2004 Sorry I thought that since you use "Paco" maybe you spoke Spanish, btw according to my kids I am a BadDad hense the name in case you were wondering. What I was asking is in a P & L what is the number that you consider when determining if somebody is rich or not? 63105[/snapback] Paco is my nickname. Short for Serpico. Italian. Not that I would have been able to decipher Italian either... Anyway, as AD says, it's very difficult to determine strictly from a number-crunching standpoint because "rich" is a relative term. What is rich in, say, Asheville, NC, may not be rich in the Bay area of California. What I can tell you is this; to simply say the government is going to tax anyone making over $200K a year shows, to me, a pandering to the middle class by suggesting someone earning over $200K a year is rich. Hell, just look at someone in SoCal earning $75K. That's probably a crapload of money if you live in Erie, but if you're earning $75K in SoCal and have three kids, you're screwed. Many of my friends in Southern Cal earn somewhere in the neighborhood of $200 to $250K. But their 4bdr/2.5bth house cost them well over three quarters of a million dollars. Their state taxes are incredibly high. But they all have one thing in common; they own their own business, just like me. So any break we get almost ALWAYS goes back into the business, because that is how we expand our personal income...by growing our respective businesses. In turn, we also hire more people. There comes a time when that wealth takes on a life of its own. You hear people talk about "making your money work for you." At the moment that your assets are so high that you don't need another form of income and can live off the interest you earn your assets...THAT is wealthy, to me. And that is what I'm trying to accomplish. And when I do, I'll have put people to work...provided them health care...helped them buy houses so they can build their own assets...and kept the economy churning. The idea of taking money from the very people who keep the economy going is wreckless. And to tell the middle class that people like me are wealthy and we SHOULD give up more money is just simply irresponsible. If you have a job...are happy to keep it...are happy with your income...are building for retirement via 401Ks and IRAs etc., and that is your plan...terrific. But I hate it when someone like Kerry looks at these people and says "See the guy making $200K? He's wealthy. We should not be giving them more money in forms of tax breaks. We should be taking it AWAY from them so I can fund socialized health care." I'm successful with my business because I've managed my assets to get to this point. Maybe if Kerry would first figure out how to manage the US' assets FIRST, and then let us know if he needs more money...maybe, just maybe, we can all get along. But he doesn't. In fact, he doesn't even TRY! He's not even president yet and already he's talking about how he needs to spend more money than we have. And who does he plan to get the money from? Guys like me. And if you keep taking more and more money from guys like me, then in short order I will have to give up my business venture, take a mid-level job somewhere, and in short order become middle class. Oh, look. Now we're moving toward a socialist society. He's irresponsible, wreckless and does everything he can to pander to the middle class...particularly the people who refuse to step up in the name of "personal accountability."
alg Posted October 10, 2004 Posted October 10, 2004 No that is not the question and that is not what Kerry implied. Do you think he was trying to score some point over the bare fact that he owned a timber company? Of course not. What would be gained by that? The issue being debated was how Kerry's economic plan would effect small businesses. The Bushies claim it would raise taxes on X amount of small businesses but that depends on how you define "small businesses". Kerry was pointing out that the way they define it, Bush himself is a "small business" because he owned a small piece of a timber company. That artificially and misleadingly inflates the numbers used by the President. Ironically, the joke the President was trying to make, that having a such a small piece of a timber company hardly means he owns the company, was exactly Kerry's point. Owning such a small piece of a company doesn't make him a small business owner but that is the only way you get the ridiculous numbers Bush is using. Even the Wall Street Journal is on record that the Bush numbers on this issue are bogus. Lies, damn lies and statistics. 63210[/snapback] Perhaps the lies are Kerry's? Our investments in stocks, holdings in trusts, etc, will be handled under capital gains/loses and in other ways that DO NOT require filing as a business (small or otherwise.) My DBA pays taxes for 1099 wages, my capital gains/loses, etc are handled differently. If GW were to get 1099 salary from a business interest as part of his small business then he most likely would be filing as a (small) business - but this is not possible as President of the US. Rules would require his investments to be placed in a blind trust. What does this mean? It is more then likely that GW would not be considered a small business. I am not an expert on all matters pertaining to this subject, but as an independant consultant with a DBA, I am more then familiar with the tax implications of running a small business. If there are accountants out there that have more specific knowledge about handling taxes for a trust then I am certainly open to being wrong on this issue. Until then, I beleive Kerry was doing nothing more then waving a big, fat and stinky red herring in the faces of the voting public. Even if GW were to be classified as such, however, Kerry is still misleading you and everyone else on the matter. $200k for a small business is nothing when deducting overhead etc. There are a whole lot of people operating this way, and GWs numbers actually sound about right.
TracyLee Posted October 10, 2004 Posted October 10, 2004 So your "take" was based on zero understand of any facts involved at all. You simply took some implied comment by Kerry as hard fact and extrapolated that into a negative opinion about Bush. Nothing like listening with an open mind, huh Tracy 63373[/snapback] I didn't hear Bush deny owning a timber company, did you? Was Kerry lying? If he was lying why didn't Bush dispute it? What are the facts, Don? What I said was that those were my immediate thoughts upon seeing that exchange. My opinions of Bush have been negative for... oh, about four years now. Nothing Kerry says has any impact on my opinion of Bush. Sorry Don, Bush helped me form my opinion of him all by himself.
lawnboy1977 Posted October 10, 2004 Posted October 10, 2004 This, unfortunately, is one of those soundbites that will go completely over the head of Joe America. Three years ago Bush reported an income of $84 for a timber company, in which he apparently had a very small piece. The question is: DOES HE OWN THAT TIMBER COMPANY TODAY? That's what Kerry implied. That's what the audience inferred. And when America first hears that Bush DID own have a small part of a Timber company...three freakin' years ago...they will roll their eyes at Kerry for such a childish stab at trying to make a ridiculous point. This is what scares me most about Kerry. He will say anything and bank on the fact that Joe America is only paying quasi-attention. Unfortunately, he's right. And so all America saw last night was a side of Bush they found humorous and endearing after he delivered his "Need some wood?" comment. God help us if Kerry gets in. This guy will make Clinton seem standup. 62707[/snapback] I am more afraid of Joe America as you call us, not noticing the blatant corruption of our current Pres. The $84 might be somewhat small, but it's just a taste of what this man is all about. Come Nov 2nd, the masses will rise up and revolt and exercise their right for regime change in America and vote that DUMB SON OF A B word AND HIS CRONIES OUT OF WASHINGTON!!
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