jimmy_from_north_buffalo Posted December 8, 2006 Author Share Posted December 8, 2006 Really? I've got two different books on my desk right now, both of which give a reasonably accurate outline of the different parties in conflict in Iraq, their methods (political or military...or both), their goals, and their backing. So is that "Impossible to count"? Or "Impossible for you to count"? 860403[/snapback] Then go read your books if that will make you feel better. I would just wonder what "political or military" goals the common criminals have who are running amoke everywhere in Iraq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicot Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 Really? I've got two different books on my desk right now, both of which give a reasonably accurate outline of the different parties in conflict in Iraq, their methods (political or military...or both), their goals, and their backing. So is that "Impossible to count"? Or "Impossible for you to count"? 860403[/snapback] How exactly are you judging that their version is "reasonably accurate"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 What a perfect rant about nothing Do you read your own posts? , concluding with a criticism of liberalism, of all things. I'm sorry you can't see the correlation between attempting to fix every problem by throwing massive amounts of money at it. You know, like you don't have to be an economist to know what a doller is. I do agree this venture was doomed before it even started, that's why I always opposed it. And the reasons were not very coplicated as you seem to profess. 860408[/snapback] Really? Why don't you tell me the un"coplicated" reasons. I'm sure it'll be a learning experience for all of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 How exactly are you judging that their version is "reasonably accurate"? 860439[/snapback] Well, to start he's not using yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy_from_north_buffalo Posted December 8, 2006 Author Share Posted December 8, 2006 Do you read your own posts? I'm sorry you can't see the correlation between attempting to fix every problem by throwing massive amounts of money at it. You know, like you don't have to be an economist to know what a doller is. Really? Why don't you tell me the un"coplicated" reasons. I'm sure it'll be a learning experience for all of us. 860441[/snapback] I'd like to congradulate you. You have now created the perfect pretzel of logic. Twists and turns everywhere lead us to liberals as the villians in the Iraq affair. We can blame them for the whole idea and we can blame them for cutting and running, too. I guess George W. Bush is the leader of the Liberals. Everything that costs lots of money and fails is infact liberalism. It must be nice living inside such a simple world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungee Jumper Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 Then go read your books if that will make you feel better. I would just wonder what "political or military" goals the common criminals have who are running amoke everywhere in Iraq. 860414[/snapback] And how many "common criminals" are running amoke (sic) everywhere in Iraq? Do you know, or are you just pulling sh-- out of your ass? Again...it's the difference between understanding Iraq, and understanding the media reports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 I'd like to congradulate you. You have now created the perfect pretzel of logic. Twists and turns everywhere lead us to liberals as the villians in the Iraq affair. We can blame them for the whole idea and we can blame them for cutting and running, too. I guess George W. Bush is the leader of the Liberals. Everything that costs lots of money and fails is infact liberalism. It must be nice living inside such a simple world 860456[/snapback] Does this mean you can't answer the simple question I asked? As far as the rest of the post, the current Republican Party is in no way conservative. Campaign like Libertarians, Govern like Liberals. I'm sorry you can't see the parallel, but I'm not at all surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicot Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 Well, to start he's not using yours. 860443[/snapback] Brilliant reply If someone is claiming that this or that book is accurate I think it's entirely legitimate to ask exactly how they can make that claim. Unless you have some other source of information that you know is accurate you haven't got much of a chance of deciding which book is accurate and which is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungee Jumper Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 How exactly are you judging that their version is "reasonably accurate"? 860439[/snapback] Based on the eighteen months the authors' spent talking to the members of upwards of forty different insurgent groups and/or Iraqi political parties, and the fact that, unlike such garbage as "Fiasco" or any of Bob Woodward's narcissistic prattle, the books are extensively cross-referenced with other publicly available primary sources and easily fact-checked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy_from_north_buffalo Posted December 8, 2006 Author Share Posted December 8, 2006 And how many "common criminals" are running amoke (sic) everywhere in Iraq? Do you know, or are you just pulling sh-- out of your ass? Again...it's the difference between understanding Iraq, and understanding the media reports. 860461[/snapback] What is your point? It seems to me you are trying to make your point the hard way. If you want to tell me Iraq is going better than the media says it is, say it. If you are trying to say something else, say it. And I have already pointed out to you that the media is hardly the only source of information on Iraq. The Iraq Study Group that just released its study clearly says Iraq is deterioriting quickly and Bush's policies have been a failure. They are not the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungee Jumper Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 What is your point? It seems to me you are trying to make your point the hard way. If you want to tell me Iraq is going better than the media says it is, say it. If you are trying to say something else, say it. And I have already pointed out to you that the media is hardly the only source of information on Iraq. The Iraq Study Group that just released its study clearly says Iraq is deterioriting quickly and Bush's policies have been a failure. They are not the media. 860485[/snapback] I'm trying to say that you'd be far better off just admitting you don't know sh--, rather than pretending you do and offerring shallow, silly, half-assed "solutions" to something you don't actually understand. I thought I was being clear on that. I apologize for not dumbing it down even more for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 Gee, I wonder why I initially thought your take was simplistic and silly? Horsehockey. It's not a failed military venture. The military part of it was quite successful. It's been the typical lesson in how little politicians can actually accomplish, despite what amounts to pretty much a blank check - take note of this, liberals. Iraq is a terrific example of why your idea of Motherment WILL NEVER WORK. He didn't use it as "his number" or as a solution. It was an example in comparison to a completely different type of conflict in virtually ever way. I wouldn't call anything else he has stated as hard to fathom, as academia has little practical world experience and prefers to overanalyze things using hindsight as their guide. The Iraq situation was doomed to failure for a variety of reasons. Most of which I doubt you or any of the other lefty parrots could come close to stating with anything other than blind luck. Of course, I pretty much called this from the initial mustering - to a "T". Anyone care to dispute that? 860346[/snapback] I think this is absolutely right. (and nice use of Horsehockey. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy_from_north_buffalo Posted December 8, 2006 Author Share Posted December 8, 2006 Does this mean you can't answer the simple question I asked? As far as the rest of the post, the current Republican Party is in no way conservative. Campaign like Libertarians, Govern like Liberals. I'm sorry you can't see the parallel, but I'm not at all surprised. 860465[/snapback] I agree the Republican Party is built upon the great lie of limited government, state's rights and such other nonsense. Stilldoesn't make Iraq a "liberal" adventure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 I agree the Republican Party is built upon the great lie of limited government, state's rights and such other nonsense. Stilldoesn't make Iraq a "liberal" adventure. 860553[/snapback] It is probably the most classically liberal program ever. The belief that an entire region could be democratized, and it would spread with a democratizing domino theory to other regions is probably the most stunning case of liberal optimism ever. Darin is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy_from_north_buffalo Posted December 8, 2006 Author Share Posted December 8, 2006 I'm trying to say that you'd be far better off just admitting you don't know sh--, rather than pretending you do and offerring shallow, silly, half-assed "solutions" to something you don't actually understand. I thought I was being clear on that. I apologize for not dumbing it down even more for you. 860536[/snapback] I didn't offer solutions, I said the 'solutions' out there won't work or are unpracticable. Do I know anything about Iraq? I know enough to see it's a total failure as to its original objectives. I'd be interested to know what your two books are that you place so much faith in that you can dismiss 'Fiasco' so confidently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy_from_north_buffalo Posted December 8, 2006 Author Share Posted December 8, 2006 It is probably the most classically liberal program ever. The belief that an entire region could be democratized, and it would spread with a democratizing domino theory to other regions is probably the most stunning case of liberal optimism ever. Darin is right. 860560[/snapback] I surrender. He was right. I guess we should not let people who call themselves Conservatives carry out basically Liberal ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 I surrender. He was right. I guess we should not let people who call themselves Conservatives carry out basically Liberal ideas. 860578[/snapback] Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 I agree the Republican Party is built upon the great lie of limited government, state's rights and such other nonsense. Yeah, I hate the very reasons America was founded too. Stilldoesn't make Iraq a "liberal" adventure. 860553[/snapback] No, the initial military part had nothing liberal to it. That's why it worked. The aftermath of it is pretty much liberal doctrine to the letter. Still having a tough time with that question, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 I surrender. He was right. I guess we should not let people who call themselves Conservatives carry out basically Liberal ideas. 860578[/snapback] Nor should we allow liberals to attempt same. The consequences are ALWAYS disasterous given enough time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 It is probably the most classically liberal program ever. The belief that an entire region could be democratized, and it would spread with a democratizing domino theory to other regions is probably the most stunning case of liberal optimism ever. Darin is right. 860560[/snapback] I have to admit... You guys are on target! I just wish there was some way to pull the archives up from when I joined here, exactly 4 years ago... I was still unregistered... Guests could post... I think DCTom was away for the weekend... "Trolls" like me were "stirring the pot" while everybody here was beating the drums of war... Talk about lemmings, the puke and false info people bit into... To your defense Darin... I don't ever recall you going along... But, you appeared to be in tacit approval... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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