stuckincincy Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 All it means is that he's capable of making some plays others can't. In no way does it mean he will be good. None of this debate of his natural skill means he will be good. 851963[/snapback] Sounds like Garrett Wolfe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted November 29, 2006 Author Share Posted November 29, 2006 Sounds like Garrett Wolfe... 851977[/snapback] Always gotta pick on the little guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Sounds like someone is a little defensive? 851923[/snapback] Shutup, ya trailertrash redneck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneonta Buffalo Fan Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 So, does this mean we wont be drafting Quinn?? 851721[/snapback] maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Imo, Elway was unique in that he was great at late comebacks (as you mentioned) and he could make passes that very few qbs who ever played the game could throw. The guy was a baseball centerfielder, and his arm was as powerful as one could imagine. A young Elway zipped 40 yard passes with the speed that JP puts on 20 yard passes, and this is NOT a knock on JP, who has a strong arm. Elway was just a freak in that regard. I don't know that Elway's arm is measurably better than JPs. That pass he threw to beat the Texans was an absolute rope that traveled about 35 yards from the spot he released it. I think that he won the superbowls when his arm weakened a bit, and he started handing more to Terrell Davis. As Elway aged, he relied more on his running game and his brain (a Stanford Grad, right?). No qb, not even Elway, can do it alone. That's a given, though I don't think he became a better player because his arm weakened. The game simply slowed down and the Broncos became a more balanced team on both sides of the football. I think losing his mobility helped him more than the couple feet he lost off his fastball. Btw, were you implying that JP has a better skill set than Young in your other post? 851919[/snapback] Nope. Just that some of the things he can do remind me of those guys - and he obviously has a long way to go to reach the lofty heights. I think Young was a far superior runner in the open field and throwing stuff underneath but Losman is far better throwing down the field. We'll likely never know how close the two are talent wise because Losman will never have the helm of a team as stacked as those Young played on, simply because of the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Hopefully Marv has some sense and we draft Quinn if he is available. JP is not a good QB. 851785[/snapback] I had the pleasure of watching Brady Quinn when he played USC last week and I have no problem saying that whomever thinks we should draft him has no idea what the !@#$ they're talking about. He had no poise...no confidence...and when the team needed him most to make the big plays, he let them down. To be sure, I doubt he will even MAKE IT in the NFL. ND clearly has some serious issues on offense, and it starts with Quinn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willis990 Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 I don't know that Elway's arm is measurably better than JPs. That pass he threw to beat the Texans was an absolute rope that traveled about 35 yards from the spot he released it. That's a given, though I don't think he became a better player because his arm weakened. The game simply slowed down and the Broncos became a more balanced team on both sides of the football. I think losing his mobility helped him more than the couple feet he lost off his fastball. Nope. Just that some of the things he can do remind me of those guys - and he obviously has a long way to go to reach the lofty heights. I think Young was a far superior runner in the open field and throwing stuff underneath but Losman is far better throwing down the field. We'll likely never know how close the two are talent wise because Losman will never have the helm of a team as stacked as those Young played on, simply because of the cap. 851997[/snapback] Elways arm was legendary. He through the ball so fast that his receivers had to practice with the JUGS machines. Elway did (mentioned above) with equal distance (make throws 60 yards across his body). His receivers often complained of jammed/broken fingers both at the HS and collegiate level. JP's arm is not that strong. Vick is said to have the strongest arm in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Hopefully Marv has some sense and we draft Quinn if he is available. JP is not a good QB. 851785[/snapback] Brady Quinn should be wearing a dress, ferchrissakes! You will feel shame when JP finishes very strong this season, and becomes one of the top QBs in the league over the next two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Elways arm was legendary. He through the ball so fast that his receivers had to practice with the JUGS machines. Elway did (mentioned above) with equal distance (make throws 60 yards across his body). His receivers often complained of jammed/broken fingers both at the HS and collegiate level. JP's arm is not that strong. Vick is said to have the strongest arm in the NFL. 852014[/snapback] The same things have been said about Bradshaw, Farve, and other QBs. Whoopie. Like I said, some of the passes I've seen JP throw are as hard as any from the past, to include the throw to Price. Mike Shanahan was mic'd during the preseason game last season and was quite complementary of Losman's arm after he threw a 20 yard out. I think Shanahan may know a little something about that subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 I think Shanahan may know a little something about that subject.852021[/snapback] I think we'll really find out this weekend. I'm eager to see Cutler play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 I think we'll really find out this weekend. I'm eager to see Cutler play. 852026[/snapback] Me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartshan-83 Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 I had the pleasure of watching Brady Quinn when he played USC last week and I have no problem saying that whomever thinks we should draft him has no idea what the !@#$ they're talking about. He had no poise...no confidence...and when the team needed him most to make the big plays, he let them down. To be sure, I doubt he will even MAKE IT in the NFL. ND clearly has some serious issues on offense, and it starts with Quinn. 852008[/snapback] Disclaimer: Despite the ND in my username, I have no great love for Brady Quinn. He has faults, and Weis has had much to do with his performance. Additionally, I am 100% against drafting him. Having said that, I gots a couple beefs... 1. If you are basing your knowledge of Quinn (or anyone) off of one game, then your opinion of him is about as worthwhile as Willis990's. 2. If you have in fact seen more of Quinn than last week, then I have trouble seeing how you could possibly say he lacks poise and confidence. I'm not sure what big plays he let his team down on in the USC game (he can't catch the balls he throws and he can't block pass rushers). If you want to see what kind of poise he has "when his team needs him the most," I suggest you check out the MSU game when he rallied the team from 19 down in the fourth. Or the UCLA game when he made a great play to get Samardzija the ball for the winning TD with 1:00 left. He has weaknesses, but lack of confidence and poise ain't on that list. 3. He will "make it" in the NFL. He's the most 'pro-ready' QB in the draft and he will have a career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Disclaimer: Despite the ND in my username, I have no great love for Brady Quinn. He has faults, and Weis has had much to do with his performance. Additionally, I am 100% against drafting him. Having said that, I gots a couple beefs... 1. If you are basing your knowledge of Quinn (or anyone) off of one game, then your opinion of him is about as worthwhile as Willis990's. 2. If you have in fact seen more of Quinn than last week, then I have trouble seeing how you could possibly say he lacks poise and confidence. I'm not sure what big plays he let his team down on in the USC game (he can't catch the balls he throws and he can't block pass rushers). If you want to see what kind of poise he has "when his team needs him the most," I suggest you check out the MSU game when he rallied the team from 19 down in the fourth. Or the UCLA game when he made a great play to get Samardzija the ball for the winning TD with 1:00 left. He has weaknesses, but lack of confidence and poise ain't on that list. 3. He will "make it" in the NFL. He's the most 'pro-ready' QB in the draft and he will have a career. 852064[/snapback] I was mostly just busting nuts, but I like your response nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartshan-83 Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 I was mostly just busting nuts, but I like your response nonetheless. 852073[/snapback] Well, alright then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cåblelady Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 I think he looks like #16 - Shane Falco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 One major difference is that Elway was always great beforehand, from high school on. Everyone loved the guy and everyone expected greatness. He was a stud in college. He was the top pick of the draft. Everyone everywhere thought he was going to be great coming out of Stanford. His first several years he didn't put up good numbers but good numbers are not a great and often not even a good indication of how well a player and especially a quarterback is playing. For the most part, people never really thought Elway was a bust even though his numbers sucked because they could see his play. After awhile the knock on him was that he couldn't win the big one, kind of like Manning now. But no one ever believed Elway was not a top quarterback in the league, just like Manning. JP has a long way to go for even that, let alone a serious Elway comparison, which I know no one is making here. But JP was never a surefire pro. He was a player with all the tools but very raw. The knocks against him weren't necessarily that he couldn't read defenses but that he has never shown that he could because most everything on that team was ragtag. he never did it before because he never had to. Again, most of the knocks against him were that he hadn't had to do it, and it would take some serious time, not that he was incapable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SACTOBILLSFAN Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Elways arm was legendary. He through the ball so fast that his receivers had to practice with the JUGS machines. Elway did (mentioned above) with equal distance (make throws 60 yards across his body). His receivers often complained of jammed/broken fingers both at the HS and collegiate level. JP's arm is not that strong. Vick is said to have the strongest arm in the NFL. 852014[/snapback] All receivers practice with JUGS machines hell even some RBs do. And when I hear of Vick's strong arm I only think of one movie quote and its from Bull Durham: [LaLoosh challenged Davis to a fight] Ebby Calvin LaLoosh: I don't hit no man first. Crash Davis: All right, then... [throws him a baseball] Crash Davis: ... hit me in the chest with that. Ebby Calvin LaLoosh: I'd kill you! Crash Davis: Yeah? From what I hear, you couldn't hit water if you fell out of a f'ing boat. Laloosh then throws the ball through the window behind Crash. I would challenge Vick to throw something at me. And 60 yards across your body is a hell of a throw. I lived in Denver and even went to a few games in his prime and I really doubt he made a pass that went 60 yards in the air across his body. You may be thinking of Tecmo Super Bowl where you could just keep dropping back and back and back and chuck the ball 94 yards downfield. The fact that fingers get jammed by passes is nothing new. Elway had a tremendous arm but please lets not just state random numbers as facts and lets not talk as if you and Elway's WRs from college and HS are your boys that you kick it with just to trade war stories about how hard ol' john could throw the football. The same things have been said about Bradshaw, Farve, and other QBs. Whoopie. Like I said, some of the passes I've seen JP throw are as hard as any from the past, to include the throw to Price. Mike Shanahan was mic'd during the preseason game last season and was quite complementary of Losman's arm after he threw a 20 yard out. I think Shanahan may know a little something about that subject. 852021[/snapback] Amen. That pass to peerless was a laser, and the pass he threw to roscoe was against his body and right on the money. It was insane and only a few QBs in the league could make that pass. It was sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLflutie7 Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Elway completed over 60% of his passes in only 3 of his 16 seasons. The first TEN YEARS of his career, he threw 158 TDs and 157 interceptions. The last six years he had 132 TDs and 69 INTs. Elway was one of the 2 or 3 best QBs I've ever seen, but only if we're talking about when the game is on the line. One of the reasons he had so many great comebacks is he tended to suck much of the first 3 quarters of games. 851765[/snapback] Since I'm a Broncos fan, that saw most games Elway played in I can really back this up. The truth is, Elway was often terrible in the first 3 quarters and it was frustrating at times watching him. I think that's why Reeves and Elway didn't get along. Elway wanted a more wide-open play book but I think Reeves didn't trust him enough in the early years. And it wasn't until Wade (son of Bum) came along that things changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.png.1b7fb4086290c3afc001a7900b31fab0.png)
Recommended Posts