Catholic Guilt Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 JP was very much overated to be selected in this first round. He is not first round material. Yes he is mobile and has a good arm but he lacks in Football intelligence. Read the scouting reports about him and you will see that were concerns about his Football intelligence i.e. processing info., looking off defenders, relying on his quickness and arm strength. 851805[/snapback] And my ignore users list continues to grow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 You mean like Losman has around him? See my above post. No offense, but Denver had a hell of alot more talent (Dennis Smith, Rulon Jones, Mecklenburg, Louis Wright, Keith Bishop, Mark Haynes, Greg Kragen, Bobby Humphrey, Michael Brooks, Shannon Sharp, Gary Zimmerman (one of the best Olineman I've ever seen), Tom Nalen, Ted Washington, Mark Schlereth, Michael Dean Perry, Romo, Tyrone Braxton, Terrell Davis, Rod Smith, Vance Johnson, Mark Jackson, Ricky Nattiel) than you're giving them credit for. Did Elway elevate the team? Absolutely. But they were a very talented football team. I was referring to the first 10 years of Elway's career, which removes most of the players above. I think that he, like Marino, didn't have as good of a team around him, but that once he did, he was able to win a SB. Marino had great receivers but no running game or defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 And my ignore users list continues to grow... 851861[/snapback] What he said about the scouting reports and stuff was right, though how it pertains to today I have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SACTOBILLSFAN Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Hopefully Marv has some sense and we draft Quinn if he is available. JP is not a good QB. 851785[/snapback] Great insight dumbass. JP was very much overated to be selected in this first round. He is not first round material. Yes he is mobile and has a good arm but he lacks in Football intelligence. Read the scouting reports about him and you will see that were concerns about his Football intelligence i.e. processing info., looking off defenders, relying on his quickness and arm strength. 851805[/snapback] And those scouting reports are now what four years old? From what i hear I am really concerned about the Bills ability to sign that Jim Kelly kid outta Miami. I heard he doesn't want to play in Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 JP was very much overated to be selected in this first round. He is not first round material. Yes he is mobile and has a good arm but he lacks in Football intelligence. Read the scouting reports about him and you will see that were concerns about his Football intelligence i.e. processing info., looking off defenders, relying on his quickness and arm strength. The concerns about JP were related to his Wonderlic score (i.e. whether he really scored a 12 the first time) and coming from a lesser program with lesser talent around him where pro skills weren't taught/developed. He was also considered too cocky and a coach killer. I think he's pretty much proven all that wrong. And I agree with AD about the Leinart comparison. Leinart was THE most NFL-ready QB to come along in awhile. Yet despite having 2 Pro Bowl WR's and a Pro Bowl RB, his performance and numbers suck and he's won just 1 game. Quinn isn't even close to Leinart's level and wouldn't have the same set of receivers, yet you're sure he's succeed where JP hasn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Leinart's a crybaby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 I was thinking Bert Jones, myself. 851824[/snapback] Since you mentioned my favorote qb that I was ever lucky enough to watch, is seems that he didn't put it all together until his 3rd season. Look at what he was doing before he was hurt, including the rushing yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 See my above post. I was referring to the first 10 years of Elway's career, which removes most of the players above. I think that he, like Marino, didn't have as good of a team around him, but that once he did, he was able to win a SB. Marino had great receivers but no running game or defense. 851870[/snapback] Dude, his third season they were 11-5 (didn't make the playoffs). He threw more interceptions than TDs. His fourth year, despite his very pedestrian numbers they went to the Super Bowl. His fifth season, they lost again in the Super Bowl. His completion percentage was 54.6. His seventh season, they lost their 3rd Super Bowl in 4 seasons. His completion percentage was 53.6 and he threw 18 TDs and 19 Interceptions. That's three Super Bowls despite having a QB who completed about 55% of his passes and had nearly as many interceptions as TDs. As far as it removing most of the above players, you're wrong. Dennis Smith, Rulon Jones, Mecklenburg, Steve Watson, Butch Johnson, Louis Wright, Keith Bishop, Mark Haynes, Greg Kragen, Gary Zimmerman, Vance Johnson, Mark Jackson, and Ricky Nattiel were all part of those teams. Shannon Sharp, Bobby Humphrey, and Michael Brooks were all around before he hit his tenth season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pBills Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Dude, his third season they were 11-5 (didn't make the playoffs). He threw more interceptions than TDs. His fourth year, despite his very pedestrian numbers they went to the Super Bowl. His fifth season, they lost again in the Super Bowl. His completion percentage was 54.6. His seventh season, they lost their 3rd Super Bowl in 4 seasons. His completion percentage was 53.6 and he threw 18 TDs and 19 Interceptions. That's three Super Bowls despite having a QB who completed about 55% of his passes and had nearly as many interceptions as TDs. As far as it removing most of the above players, you're wrong. Dennis Smith, Rulon Jones, Mecklenburg, Louis Wright, Keith Bishop, Mark Haynes, Greg Kragen, Gary Zimmerman, Vance Johnson, Mark Jackson, and Ricky Nattiel were all part of those teams. 851907[/snapback] Shouldn't this be on the Broncos board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted November 29, 2006 Author Share Posted November 29, 2006 Shouldn't this be on the Broncos board? 851911[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Dude, his third season they were 11-5 (didn't make the playoffs). He threw more interceptions than TDs. His fourth year, despite his very pedestrian numbers they went to the Super Bowl. His fifth season, they lost again in the Super Bowl. His completion percentage was 54.6. His seventh season, they lost their 3rd Super Bowl in 4 seasons. His completion percentage was 53.6 and he threw 18 TDs and 19 Interceptions. That's three Super Bowls despite having a QB who completed about 55% of his passes and had nearly as many interceptions as TDs. As far as it removing most of the above players, you're wrong. Dennis Smith, Rulon Jones, Mecklenburg, Louis Wright, Keith Bishop, Mark Haynes, Greg Kragen, Gary Zimmerman, Vance Johnson, Mark Jackson, and Ricky Nattiel were all part of those teams. Shannon Sharp, Bobby Humphrey, and Michael Brooks were all around before he hit his tenth season. 851907[/snapback] Imo, Elway was unique in that he was great at late comebacks (as you mentioned) and he could make passes that very few qbs who ever played the game could throw. The guy was a baseball centerfielder, and his arm was as powerful as one could imagine. A young Elway zipped 40 yard passes with the speed that JP puts on 20 yard passes, and this is NOT a knock on JP, who has a strong arm. Elway was just a freak in that regard. I think that he won the superbowls when his arm weakened a bit, and he started handing more to Terrell Davis. As Elway aged, he relied more on his running game and his brain (a Stanford Grad, right?). No qb, not even Elway, can do it alone. Btw, were you implying that JP has a better skill set than Young in your other post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catholic Guilt Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 As far as it removing most of the above players, you're wrong. 851907[/snapback] Sounds like someone is a little defensive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayFinkle Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 What "facts" might those be? By all means find my a guy that compares more to JP, not just stats. 851778[/snapback] FLUTIE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted November 29, 2006 Author Share Posted November 29, 2006 Btw, were you implying that JP has a better skill set than Young in your other post? 851919[/snapback] I would say he does if you don't include recognition, which I don't think you can because he's still so raw. I still don't see him ever approaching Youngs recognition level, but in terms of arm strength and athleticism I would rate JP higher then Young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 I would say he does if you don't include recognition, which I don't think you can because he's still so raw. I still don't see him ever approaching Youngs recognition level, but in terms of arm strength and athleticism I would rate JP higher then Young. 851925[/snapback] Recognition as well as touch ARE things which can improve with time, so I agree that it is too early to tell wrt those. JP does have a stronger arm but in terms of athleticism, I would rate Young as clearly superior. Once again, this is NOT a knock against JP who IS quite athletic. It is simply that Young takes a backseat perhaps only to Vick in this category. Jmo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Young had 2 years of seasoning in the USFL, 2 more years languishing in Tampa Bay, and 4 learning the system in SF before his breakout year in 1991. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted November 29, 2006 Author Share Posted November 29, 2006 Recognition as well as touch ARE things which can improve with time, so I agree that it is too early to tell wrt those. JP does have a stronger arm but in terms of athleticism, I would rate Young as clearly superior. Once again, this is NOT a knock against JP who IS quite athletic. It is simply that Young takes a backseat perhaps only to Vick in this category. Jmo. 851928[/snapback] I don't know, I mean we could sit here and debate forever because we really have no way to measure it. I see Young as a more gifted runner, but I imagine the speed is very comparable. Both are probably in the low 4.6 range. The Arm strength is no comparison in JP's favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Recognition as well as touch ARE things which can improve with time, so I agree that it is too early to tell wrt those. JP does have a stronger arm but in terms of athleticism, I would rate Young as clearly superior. Once again, this is NOT a knock against JP who IS quite athletic. It is simply that Young takes a backseat perhaps only to Vick in this category. Jmo. 851928[/snapback] I agree. It also should be noted that Steve Young was also far from an immediate success as a pro QB... to the point where the Bucs gave up on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 I don't know, I mean we could sit here and debate forever because we really have no way to measure it. I see Young as a more gifted runner, but I imagine the speed is very comparable. Both are probably in the low 4.6 range. The Arm strength is no comparison in JP's favor. 851937[/snapback] I must note that arm strength alone isn't as big a factor as many think. I think that James Harris had the strongest arm I ever saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted November 29, 2006 Author Share Posted November 29, 2006 I must note that arm strength alone isn't as big a factor as many think. I think that James Harris had the strongest arm I ever saw. 851945[/snapback] All it means is that he's capable of making some plays others can't. In no way does it mean he will be good. None of this debate of his natural skill means he will be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.png.1b7fb4086290c3afc001a7900b31fab0.png)
Recommended Posts