IDBillzFan Posted November 28, 2006 Posted November 28, 2006 Doomed.... doomed... doomed. Our entire fat, lazy, stupid society. And we try to act as though it doesn't matter. 851085[/snapback] Nothing matters to our fat, lazy stupid society except what we think matters to us: a fast burger, a movie based on a TV show, the hot chick flavor of the month, the next season of "Survivor" and "24", the next video game, an all-in-one cellphone, online porn and whatever else the media wants us to think and/or worry about.
CircleTheWagons Posted November 28, 2006 Posted November 28, 2006 No, that is where I do not follow you. How does it help communication if one uses the wrong words, or misspells them? Unless you are consciously playing it for laughs, it makes no sense to ignore the guidelines for clear writing. Unless you just don't care, which in turn is something that the objects of your communication will always notice. 850924[/snapback] I'll try again. You said the goal is correct spelling and usage. The only place where that should be a goal is in a Back-to-Basics English class. The goal is to share a thought, an idea, or argue a point. It's like saying the goal this weekend is for the Bills to stop LT. It's incorrect - the goal this weekend is to win the football game. Part of our strategy for winning may be to stop LT but it's irrelevant if we win the game. Similarly, if you can communicate your idea effectively, poor spelling or grammar doesn't matter.
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted November 28, 2006 Posted November 28, 2006 I'll try again. You said the goal is correct spelling and usage. The only place where that should be a goal is in a Back-to-Basics English class. The goal is to share a thought, an idea, or argue a point. It's like saying the goal this weekend is for the Bills to stop LT. It's incorrect - the goal this weekend is to win the football game. Part of our strategy for winning may be to stop LT but it's irrelevant if we win the game. Similarly, if you can communicate your idea effectively, poor spelling or grammar doesn't matter. 851105[/snapback] I think the problem here is that I cannot imagine how improper usage and grammar can communicate an idea better than proper usage. Certainly, it is possible to communicate well with improper usage, but I stand by my contention that clear communication is easier and more preferable with proper usage. To use a football metaphor, it is possible to complete a lot of passes throwing off the wrong foot, with bad mechanics and the like, but one is more likely to have success more often if one pays attention to footwork, mechanics, crisp patterns, etc. The notion that correct usage only belongs in "Back to Basics English class" is deeply problematic. I would not want to see everyone turn into grammatical versions of Michael Vick. As the Germans say over here, "nichts für ungut,"—I respect your right to an opinion that I do not happen to share.
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted November 28, 2006 Posted November 28, 2006 Nothing matters to our fat, lazy stupid society except what we think matters to us: a fast burger, a movie based on a TV show, the hot chick flavor of the month, the next season of "Survivor" and "24", the next video game, an all-in-one cellphone, online porn and whatever else the media wants us to think and/or worry about. 851090[/snapback] Hey, it is nice to meet a kindred spirit, but I have a question. I was chalking up my gloom to the fact that I am sitting in cold, damp Germany.... Shouldn't living in sunny LA contribute to an optimisitc outlook?
MikeSpeed Posted November 28, 2006 Posted November 28, 2006 Spelling is not a test of intelligence. Einstein couldn't spell to save his life. I'm sure 99% of the IQ's on this board don't measure up to his.
HBSS151 Posted November 28, 2006 Posted November 28, 2006 Spelling is not a test of intelligence.Einstein couldn't spell to save his life. I'm sure 99% of the IQ's on this board don't measure up to his. 851127[/snapback] You must have missed Logic class.
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted November 28, 2006 Posted November 28, 2006 Spelling is not a test of intelligence.Einstein couldn't spell to save his life. I'm sure 99% of the IQ's on this board don't measure up to his. 851127[/snapback] Of course it is not a test of intelligence.... It is a test of respect for your readers. And Einstein never published a word that was not clearly written and elegant. He was smart enough to make sure that he proofread his papers. The argument that somehow being a bad speller makes one closer to genius is an excuse for sloppiness, and has no basis in reality. That said, I promise that if a Nobel Prize Winner posts to TSW, he or she can spell any damn way he or she likes.
IDBillzFan Posted November 29, 2006 Posted November 29, 2006 Hey, it is nice to meet a kindred spirit, but I have a question. I was chalking up my gloom to the fact that I am sitting in cold, damp Germany.... Shouldn't living in sunny LA contribute to an optimisitc outlook? 851117[/snapback] It should, but my father-in-law, who lives in Aachen, is visiting for the holiday so it's a bit cold and damp around here.
runner Posted November 29, 2006 Posted November 29, 2006 My pet peeve is people putting apostrophes in their plurals....It just irritates me that they don't know when to put them in. It's not the Bill's.....It's the Bills. It's not chicken wing's, it's chicken wings. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!
McGill Bill Posted November 29, 2006 Author Posted November 29, 2006 It's "their"Their, There, or They're? Their is a possessive pronoun. It always describes a noun. Note the spelling of their. It comes from the word they, so the e comes before the i. There is an adverb meaning "that location." It is sometimes used with the verb to be as an idiom. It is spelled like here which means "this location." They're is a contraction of they are. Note the spelling: The a from are is replaced by an apostrophe. Examples: Their dog has fleas. (possessive of they) I put the collar right there. (that location) There are five prime numbers less than ten. (with to be) They're 1, 2, 3, 5, and 7. (contraction of they are) 851068[/snapback] Oy.
McGill Bill Posted November 29, 2006 Author Posted November 29, 2006 Ah, but you could make the case that the decline in the ability to spell caused by the internet and messaging lingo is only the first step in progressing to a world wherein even treatises on statistics are riddled with typos. Or I just need to remove the English cucumber from my hindquarters. So does RJ.
keepthefaith Posted November 29, 2006 Posted November 29, 2006 I'll try again. You said the goal is correct spelling and usage. The only place where that should be a goal is in a Back-to-Basics English class. The goal is to share a thought, an idea, or argue a point. It's like saying the goal this weekend is for the Bills to stop LT. It's incorrect - the goal this weekend is to win the football game. Part of our strategy for winning may be to stop LT but it's irrelevant if we win the game. Similarly, if you can communicate your idea effectively, poor spelling or grammar doesn't matter. 851105[/snapback] Any form of written communication is a reflection on the writer. Since few of us meet face to face, we gain an impression of each other from what is written here. If people don't care how they are perceived by others, then continue writing garbage. For many of you, based on what and how you write, I have a mental picture that looks something like this..... http://www.geocities.com/msavad/my_bum.jpg
keepthefaith Posted November 29, 2006 Posted November 29, 2006 Any form of written communication is a reflection on the writer. Since few of us meet face to face, we gain an impression of each other from what is written here. If people don't care how they are perceived by others, then continue writing garbage. For many of you, based on what and how you write, I have a mental picture that looks something like this..... http://www.geocities.com/msavad/my_bum.jpg 851294[/snapback] Or maybe this..... http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...6lr%3D%26sa%3DN
Swift Sylvan Posted November 29, 2006 Posted November 29, 2006 The fcat is, you can stlil undrestnad waht I'm tpying
Swift Sylvan Posted November 29, 2006 Posted November 29, 2006 It's "their"Their, There, or They're? Their is a possessive pronoun. It always describes a noun. Note the spelling of their. It comes from the word they, so the e comes before the i. There is an adverb meaning "that location." It is sometimes used with the verb to be as an idiom. It is spelled like here which means "this location." They're is a contraction of they are. Note the spelling: The a from are is replaced by an apostrophe. Examples: Their dog has fleas. (possessive of they) I put the collar right there. (that location) There are five prime numbers less than ten. (with to be) They're 1, 2, 3, 5, and 7. (contraction of they are) 851068[/snapback] 1 isn't a prime number.
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted November 29, 2006 Posted November 29, 2006 It should, but my father-in-law, who lives in Aachen, is visiting for the holiday so it's a bit cold and damp around here. 851162[/snapback] Ah.... the combination of Father-in-law and German is pretty heavy.... Of course, the upside there is that you are married to a German woman.
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted November 29, 2006 Posted November 29, 2006 Ah, but you could make the case that the decline in the ability to spell caused by the internet and messaging lingo is only the first step in progressing to a world wherein even treatises on statistics are riddled with typos. Or I just need to remove the English cucumber from my hindquarters. So does RJ. 851192[/snapback] Bill, I appreciate your sense of humor, but I also think you have put your... um... cucumber on the problem. If we treat caring about things like grammar and spelling as the problem (killjoy, biddy, cucumber-toting), then the lazy will win. The problem is flabby thinking and writing, not that some people criticize flabby thinking and writing. If no one points out the problem, then things will not improve. Things may not improve anyway, but the struggle against decline gives our pathetic existence on earth whatever nobility it may possess. Speaking of hopeless struggles against decline, I will end my crusade after this post, at least for the time being, and return to football discussion. Go Bills!
CircleTheWagons Posted November 29, 2006 Posted November 29, 2006 I think the problem here is that I cannot imagine how improper usage and grammar can communicate an idea better than proper usage. Certainly, it is possible to communicate well with improper usage, but I stand by my contention that clear communication is easier and more preferable with proper usage.851116[/snapback] Well, even if you can't imagine it, at least you seem to acknowledge that communicating your idea effectively is the GOAL and spelling and grammar are tools to assist in the goal - which is the point. If you honestly believe that "breaking the rules" never helps communication, then I think you have been beaten up by too many message board posts. Here is a quote from the introduction to The Elements of Style: It is an old observation that the best writers sometimes disregard the rules of rhetoric. When they do so, however, the reader will usually find in the sentence some compensating merit, attained at the cost of the violation. Unless he is certain of doing as well, he will probably do best to follow the rules. After he has learned, by their guidance, to write plain English adequate for everyday uses, let him look, for the secrets of style, to the study of the masters of literature. For me, that book is the definitive guide to the basics. It's available online here
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted November 29, 2006 Posted November 29, 2006 I think we may agree here more than disagree, based on your use of the E.B. White quote--a book I also take to heart, by the way. That quote, as I read it, says that the first impulse should be to get it right, which has been my point all along. (Just because I advocate clarity does not mean I always live up to my own goals... such is the nature of fallible humanity.) Too many people think there is a special virtue is flouting the rules, or being ignorant of them. That is not what Strunk and White are advocating at all. They think that, once you know them, you can learn whether to flout them for effect, but the first impulse should be to get it right. And, of course, nowhere in that book do they endorse misspelling, or the incorrect use of apostrophes. That book is a gold mine for proper usage--such as the difference between that and which. I wish more people viewed getting it right as a virtue, rather than dismissing it as old-fashioned, but I am not advocating putting people in grammatical shackles. Instead, allow me to repeat my metaphor about proper mechanics when throwing a football--you can do it a lot of ways, but it is best to make sure you have a firm command of the basics before you think you can start freelancing at will. Have a great day, and Go Bills! Well, even if you can't imagine it, at least you seem to acknowledge that communicating your idea effectively is the GOAL and spelling and grammar are tools to assist in the goal - which is the point. If you honestly believe that "breaking the rules" never helps communication, then I think you have been beaten up by too many message board posts. Here is a quote from the introduction to The Elements of Style: It is an old observation that the best writers sometimes disregard the rules of rhetoric. When they do so, however, the reader will usually find in the sentence some compensating merit, attained at the cost of the violation. Unless he is certain of doing as well, he will probably do best to follow the rules. After he has learned, by their guidance, to write plain English adequate for everyday uses, let him look, for the secrets of style, to the study of the masters of literature. For me, that book is the definitive guide to the basics. It's available online here 851405[/snapback]
McGill Bill Posted November 29, 2006 Author Posted November 29, 2006 Bill, I appreciate your sense of humor, but I also think you have put your... um... cucumber on the problem. If we treat caring about things like grammar and spelling as the problem (killjoy, biddy, cucumber-toting), then the lazy will win. The problem is flabby thinking and writing, not that some people criticize flabby thinking and writing. If no one points out the problem, then things will not improve. Things may not improve anyway, but the struggle against decline gives our pathetic existence on earth whatever nobility it may possess. Speaking of hopeless struggles against decline, I will end my crusade after this post, at least for the time being, and return to football discussion. Go Bills! 851370[/snapback] What? They talk about football here? I thought it was the Dean & Deluca complaints department. Well. I guess I'll have to take my expired cheese elsewhere.
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