mike1011 Posted November 28, 2006 Posted November 28, 2006 Peterson was hurt over a year ago when he was 25 or 26 is now 28. Spikes is 30 and at 30 no matter what you aren't as good. Unless he found the fountain of youth he's in trouble. You don't bounce back at 30 in a position which requires speed.
Lurker Posted November 28, 2006 Posted November 28, 2006 As others have said, next year's training camp will decide it once and for all...
DCBongo Posted November 28, 2006 Posted November 28, 2006 I still love TKO and I think he came back a touch early. He has another year and, if the team continues on its current path, I think Buffalo will be the place to be for a chnace for a solid playoff run!
Dawgg Posted November 28, 2006 Posted November 28, 2006 The big trap might actually belong to you. Spikes is the ultimate team player and warrior. His teammates look up to him and cutting him will send a very, very bad message to this team. Nobody plays with more intensity and fire than Spikes and his teammates feed off that. His play will improve. He essentially had no training camp and then was further set back with a hamstring injury. Give him time. You mean a guy with a big trap, nothing to back it up with anymore, and a feeling that he deserves a starting role while playing like a back-up? That sounds more demoralizing that revitalizing. Can you explain what you think he would provide to the team if he was a starter and played poorly? 849900[/snapback]
mike1011 Posted November 28, 2006 Posted November 28, 2006 The big trap might actually belong to you. Spikes is the ultimate team player and warrior. His teammates look up to him and cutting him will send a very, very bad message to this team. Nobody plays with more intensity and fire than Spikes and his teammates feed off that. His play will improve. He essentially had no training camp and then was further set back with a hamstring injury. Give him time. 850464[/snapback] I'd love to give him time but will he take a pay-cut to compensate for his lack of playmaking? Enough to keep Clements? I know we will be way under the cap, but with enough money we could easily keep Clements or Assante Samuel, someone decent on the right side of the O-line, grab GOOD depth at tackle (offense and defense) and more depth at LB. The new crop of FAs will get more money with more to spend so talking about the big cap space might all go bye-bye if FAs go up significantly in a buyer's market.
Tasker Posted November 28, 2006 Posted November 28, 2006 I think this decision will have to be made with an open mind at the right time, but the right time is not now, and I think the right decision will end up being to keep him. This is an injury that will take a year to get back to his best. There is a chance that he won't be the same, but everything I've seen this year shows that physically he is progressing and will recover fully. He will be 31 when he recovers, but will have missed more than a season of hits, so has a chance to play younger than that if his ankle is fine. That is still an "if", but I think an "if" that can only be accurately evaluated next training camp. We are a league of Texans Moulds, Redskins Bruce Smith, Dolphins Thurman, so if that reality happens we will deal with it, but I think that TKO still has a very good chance of being an impact player in 2007 and finishing his career as a Bill.
mike1011 Posted November 28, 2006 Posted November 28, 2006 How many impact linebackers exist that doesn't play MLB 31 or older? None, and many aren't going over the worst possible injury to an athlete's career on a job made on quickness. So add a horrendous injury and the fact that he's going to be back at 31 with no good/great LBs at 31 and all you have is a big cap hit. If he does come back out of some freak genetic display do you really think he is going to play out his salary at his performance? I don't see anyone really believing that. TKO was great, now he's sub-par. I hope he destroys the league, I just don't see it with my reality glasses on.
RuntheDamnBall Posted November 28, 2006 Posted November 28, 2006 I'd love to give him time but will he take a pay-cut to compensate for his lack of playmaking? Enough to keep Clements? I know we will be way under the cap, but with enough money we could easily keep Clements or Assante Samuel, someone decent on the right side of the O-line, grab GOOD depth at tackle (offense and defense) and more depth at LB. The new crop of FAs will get more money with more to spend so talking about the big cap space might all go bye-bye if FAs go up significantly in a buyer's market. 850492[/snapback] You said it already, we have the cap room. No point in taking it to a proud man who has given a lot to a team that hasn't given a lot back to him. I think we owe him the chance to prove this was a year of healing and getting back up to speed. It's a gamble worth taking if you ask me. You put any other LB back there and he is not going to measure up to a healthy TKO, and a new guy will have to learn the system to a point that the benefits will not outweigh the potential costs.
Buffaloed in Pa Posted November 28, 2006 Posted November 28, 2006 I wish they would have picked somebody else up to take his place while he heal`s.Don`t we have someone that could take his place,while he heals? We are getting not much there now.
Bill from NYC Posted November 28, 2006 Posted November 28, 2006 Don`t we have someone that could take his place,while he heals? We are getting not much there now. 850634[/snapback] No, because that is asking WAY too much. A healthy TKO was (imo) a lock for Canton. You just cannot throw a guy in there and expect the same results. If he wasn't an absolutely great player with no weakness, the decision to release him wouldn't be as hard. If he can come back approaching what he once was, he would be something special. I am in no position to speculate as to how or when he come back, but he does seem to work his ass off. The whole thing is truly a shame.
stuckincincy Posted November 28, 2006 Posted November 28, 2006 How many impact linebackers exist that doesn't play MLB 31 or older? None, and many aren't going over the worst possible injury to an athlete's career on a job made on quickness. So add a horrendous injury and the fact that he's going to be back at 31 with no good/great LBs at 31 and all you have is a big cap hit. If he does come back out of some freak genetic display do you really think he is going to play out his salary at his performance? I don't see anyone really believing that. TKO was great, now he's sub-par. I hope he destroys the league, I just don't see it with my reality glasses on. 850506[/snapback] Baltimore MLB Ray Lewis is 31.
Dawgg Posted November 28, 2006 Posted November 28, 2006 Great player? Absolutely. Lock for Canton? Come on now... No, because that is asking WAY too much. A healthy TKO was (imo) a lock for Canton. 850647[/snapback]
Dan Posted November 28, 2006 Posted November 28, 2006 Baltimore MLB Ray Lewis is 31. 850831[/snapback] Stop confusing us with the facts. I much prefer unwarranted opinion.
mike1011 Posted November 29, 2006 Posted November 29, 2006 Baltimore MLB Ray Lewis is 31. 850831[/snapback] Which was my point that there are no outside linebackers outside of 30 who are any good. Fletch is decent too past 30, but not outside linebackers. Consider that Spikes and Co had 380+ yards in rushing against them the past 2 games who much more intensity equals tackles and stopping the run? If they can't stop the run eventually you just lose more than you win. It doesn't matter if you high kick, scream, dance, etc. if the teams are running all over you. Spikes is a non-factor in a game, an actual liability with no great outside LB outside of 30, and certainly no LB who was anything past 30 after a major injury in the entire history of the NFL. His career is over and Posey is a better option right now. Why not advocate Posey? Because he sucked. If TKO stays here it's for slightly over vet minimum nothing more. What does he bring to the table as far as defense is concerned other than allowing the running game to smash right through us?
Pyrite Gal Posted November 29, 2006 Posted November 29, 2006 Which was my point that there are no outside linebackers outside of 30 who are any good. Fletch is decent too past 30, but not outside linebackers. Consider that Spikes and Co had 380+ yards in rushing against them the past 2 games who much more intensity equals tackles and stopping the run? If they can't stop the run eventually you just lose more than you win. It doesn't matter if you high kick, scream, dance, etc. if the teams are running all over you. Spikes is a non-factor in a game, an actual liability with no great outside LB outside of 30, and certainly no LB who was anything past 30 after a major injury in the entire history of the NFL. His career is over and Posey is a better option right now. Why not advocate Posey? Because he sucked. If TKO stays here it's for slightly over vet minimum nothing more. What does he bring to the table as far as defense is concerned other than allowing the running game to smash right through us? 851352[/snapback] There are simply too many examples of individual players defying the conventional wisdom and rehabbing from injuries which seemed certain to end their careers (WM for example) and also older players who the conventional wisdom says they should have been done years ago, but they just keep seeming to hang around and the professional evaluators deem them to be contributors (I for one thought Seau was a done wheb Miami signed him way back when but clearly the pro evaluators see something I do not which is not surprising as I like the rest of is are rank amateurs as far as this goes). Ae any rate it is still too early to right TKO off as someone to be cut or even someone who must be forced to take a pay cut. We have too much cap room not to wait to see what reality is in this case.
mike1011 Posted November 29, 2006 Posted November 29, 2006 There are simply too many examples of individual players defying the conventional wisdom and rehabbing from injuries which seemed certain to end their careers (WM for example) and also older players who the conventional wisdom says they should have been done years ago, but they just keep seeming to hang around and the professional evaluators deem them to be contributors (I for one thought Seau was a done wheb Miami signed him way back when but clearly the pro evaluators see something I do not which is not surprising as I like the rest of is are rank amateurs as far as this goes). Ae any rate it is still too early to right TKO off as someone to be cut or even someone who must be forced to take a pay cut. We have too much cap room not to wait to see what reality is in this case. 851358[/snapback] Vilma is a good LB because he's fast. Colvin at one point was blazing fast and a great LB. Seau was fast and explosive (now older). No one gets better from the worst injury an athlete can have that relies on speed. Seeing TKO become Eddie Robinson is heart-breaking, but a reality. Can he comeback? No, he can't. Can he be 80% of what he was? Sure, but that 20% is the difference between him and all 2nd and 3rd stringers in the league. He was in the top 10% of all outside LB, and at 80% he's slightly below average. The NFL is very fast.
stuckincincy Posted November 29, 2006 Posted November 29, 2006 Which was my point that there are no outside linebackers outside of 30 who are any good. Fletch is decent too past 30, but not outside linebackers. 851352[/snapback] Well, I had trouble parsing your sentence, "How many impact linebackers exist that doesn't play MLB 31 or older?" I made no attempt at diagramming it...
34-78-83 Posted November 29, 2006 Posted November 29, 2006 This is possibly one of the most dissapointing, short-sighted, hotpocket threads that I could ever imagine a Bills fan posting. Football is a tough business at times for sure but you should always give a guy that has earned that much respect through his play, dedication and leadership a chance to recover before you dump him to the curb. Of the cases who do fully recover from this type of injury, none of them were all the way back in the first season. His dollar figure is not out of line either. I just can't believe that anyone would take this fantasy football manager approach and try to apply it to the real game.
bizell Posted November 29, 2006 Posted November 29, 2006 How many impact linebackers exist that doesn't play MLB 31 or older? None, and many aren't going over the worst possible injury to an athlete's career on a job made on quickness. So add a horrendous injury and the fact that he's going to be back at 31 with no good/great LBs at 31 and all you have is a big cap hit. If he does come back out of some freak genetic display do you really think he is going to play out his salary at his performance? I don't see anyone really believing that. TKO was great, now he's sub-par. I hope he destroys the league, I just don't see it with my reality glasses on. 850506[/snapback] Derrick Brooks has something to say about this.
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