Flexible school

[Stl Bills]

Suite reference. That's when you can get the Fireball.

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Might be able to get the fireball but you can't get laid.

[daquixers_is_back]

Which of us has been banned from this site in the past?  Oh, that'd be you.  That'd be reason number one to not give others advice on proper message board behavior, methinks...

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When was I banned? All of my other accounts are still active ...

[ajzepp]

When was I banned? All of my other accounts are still active ... 

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Maybe AD knows something you don't?

[daquixers_is_back]

Maybe AD knows something you don't? 

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I guess so. I was banned from !@#$ and BillsZone but who hasnt? I was pretty immature in those days anyhow .. I dont remember being banned from here though.

[stuckincincy]

Buff State, and most SUNY schools still have the general education stuff, where you need 3 credits of math, an english course, a presentation course, upper level writing, diversity, women's studies, etc... The fact of the matter is that this causes people w/ enough credits to not graduate on time because of the number of requirements (I for one), especially if they are in the education program or a double major. I have taken 50 credit hours in gen eds. with roughly 10 of them being practical to what i am going to school for. If I had to have 10-12 less gen. ed credit hours, i would have been able to graduate in 4 years no problem. but i am stuck here for the next semester plus because of the excess of gen. ed's. I understand why we have them, but it really needs to be scaled down a tad at public institutions, which are more likely to have a gen. ed program over private institutions.

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Somehow, folks were able to surmount that difficulty you mention, in years past.

 

I'm not quite clear what you mean by gen ed.

 

When I attended - chemistry, I took 43 hours of chemistry, 8 of physics, 3 in geology, and 8 of calculus. That was 62 hours of the 124 (IIRC) to graduate. That obviously fulfilled the math and science core requirement. So taking the additional 62 hours in other disciplines was easy to do. Granted, one had to dance around the scheduling, but that's life.

 

I forgot to mention, 9 hours of physical education was also required. The purpose of that was to perpetuate the jobs of the staff. I took wrestling, calisthenics and bowling.

 

3 credits of math and English won't kill anybody. I suppose, though, that it ties into what I've read and heard about for years - that many, many incoming college freshmen are far less prepared to do college work than in years past. Which is a sad thing.

 

 

If things like "diversity" and "women's studies" are now mandatory, they have added brainwashing to the curricula...

[BoondckCL]

Personally, I think this is the dumbest idea I've heard in a long time.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/11/21/an...l.ap/index.html

 

And this quote is so bogus it's not even funny:

"Others disagree, noting most adults can barely remember, or rarely use, most of what schools pounded into them."

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That is bull sh--. Some people misunderstand what people mean when they are talking about addressing school reform and what paths should be taken to do it. Those kids are not going to realize that their worthless until they're sitting in prison or at home on a couch eating potato chips and drinking beer.

 

Who ever the reporter is, is a retard. Yes, let's get quotes from 12 year olds that are told that they don't have to do anything unless they want to, and see how they feel about it. I wouldn't doubt if those 12 year olds could even spell half of the words that they use in a sentence.

 

If school's are going to be reformed you need to get political motivation out of the curriculum, you need to actively involve students in legitimate classroom activity, and you need to be flexable to every childs personality types. That's just the major three off of the top of my head. But telling kids that there are no rules and that they can play whenever they want, that is just stupidity.

[Dr. Fong]

Who ever the reporter is, is a retard. Yes, let's get quotes from 12 year olds that are told that they don't have to do anything unless they want to, and see how they feel about it. I wouldn't doubt if those 12 year olds could even spell half of the words that they use in a sentence.

 

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Well my wife is an English lecturer at a local community college and one of the classes she teaches is composition. She is constantly frustrated and saddened by how poor the writing skills of her students are. College level students that can't even write complete sentences. Obviously something is wrong with the way we are educating our children. Is this program the answer? No. It would be impossible to implement this on a large scale. However, I'm sure that things can be learned from radical approaches such as these. I take issue with your assumption that schools like this turn students into massvely self-centered dolts. I suspect if you were to visit such a school you may be surprised at how intelligent and well-behaved these children actually are. Do I know that for a certainty? No of course not, I don't know those people and I am not qualified to make an assessment of this style of education. However, I suspect I could say the same thing about you and your assertions.

[justnzane]

Somehow, folks were able to surmount that difficulty you mention, in years past. 

 

I'm not quite clear what you mean by gen ed. 

 

When I attended - chemistry, I took 43 hours of chemistry, 8 of physics, 3 in geology, and 8 of calculus.  That was 62 hours of the 124 (IIRC) to graduate.  That obviously fulfilled the math and science core requirement. So taking the additional 62 hours in other disciplines was easy to do. Granted, one had to dance around the scheduling, but that's life.

 

I forgot to mention, 9 hours of physical education was also required. The purpose of that was to perpetuate the jobs of the staff.    I took wrestling, calisthenics and bowling.

 

3 credits of math and English won't kill anybody. I suppose, though, that it ties into what I've read and heard about for years - that many, many incoming college freshmen are far less prepared to do college work than in years past. Which is a sad thing.

If things like "diversity" and "women's studies" are now mandatory, they have added brainwashing to the curricula...

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ok but I am taking 40 credits for math, another 40 for education and 21 for coaching on top of those 50 gen ed credits (some of which count in math,education, or coaching classes), it gives no open electives at all and i'll be graduating with 30 more credits than i am required to have for graduation. I think it is bull that i took a theatre class to fulfill a fine arts w/ performance requirement to only have to take another fine arts class. Diversity and women's studies classes were supposed to be more for social awareness and such. still 50 credits in college level is just too much for the average student when you factor in that those gen ed classes fill up too quick and you are lucky as a freshman to get into certain classes. Again, they do restrict how many credits you can earn in one concentration to 60, so you are forced to learn more than one thing as it is. I don't see the point of so many gen. eds especially when the average time to graduate is now around 5-5.5 years.

[BoondckCL]

Well my wife is an English lecturer at a local community college and one of the classes she teaches is composition.  She is constantly frustrated and saddened by how poor the writing skills of her students are.  College level students that can't even write complete sentences.  Obviously something is wrong with the way we are educating our children.  Is this program the answer?  No.  It would be impossible to implement this on a large scale.  However, I'm sure that things can be learned from radical approaches such as these.  I take issue with your assumption that schools like this turn students into massvely self-centered dolts.  I suspect if you were to visit such a school you may be surprised at how intelligent and well-behaved these children actually are.  Do I know that for a certainty?  No of course not, I don't know those people and I am not qualified to make an assessment of this style of education.  However, I suspect I could say the same thing about you and your assertions.

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I see what you are saying, i really do. But the idea that kids being able to make their own rules has to result in some lag in the standards of that school. I just have the feeling that it does.

[Fezmid]

She is constantly frustrated and saddened by how poor the writing skills of her students are.  College level students that can't even write complete sentences.

It's worse than just college level students.. I was taking an advanced fiction writing class in college (as an elective, since I like writing). Most people in the class were English majors and sadly, most couldn't comprehend standard grammar (let alone write interesting stories...). It's pretty sad when the professor tells the computer science major that he should be a writer, but doens't say that to the english majors.

 

Obviously something is wrong with the way we are educating our children.

I think a large part of the problem is that everyone thinks they need to go to college now. When my parents were kids, they could learn a skill in high school or go to trade school. Nowadays, that doesn't happen; high school is more like "college prep," and that hurts the students who aren't really college material. Let's face it, not everyone is good enough to get a degree, and there's nothing wrong with that, but let's not try to force everyone through the (very expensive) college system.

CW

[stuckincincy]

ok but I am taking 40 credits for math, another 40 for education and 21 for coaching on top of those 50 gen ed credits (some of which count in math,education, or coaching classes), it gives no open electives at all and i'll be graduating with 30 more credits than i am required to have for graduation. I think it is bull that i took a theatre class to fulfill a fine arts w/ performance requirement to only have to take another fine arts class. Diversity and women's studies classes were supposed to be more for social awareness and such. still 50 credits in college level is just too much for the average student when you factor in that those gen ed classes fill up too quick and you are lucky as a freshman to get into certain classes. Again, they do restrict how many credits you can earn in one concentration to 60, so you are forced to learn  more than one thing as it is. I don't see the point of so many gen. eds especially when the average time to graduate is now around 5-5.5 years.

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Well, I think you will appreciate the fine arts classes as time goes by. One of the music & arts courses I took was called "Symphonic Literature".. It was about the lives of the great classical musicians. A number of years I gained appreciation for the great works of music.

 

There is great value in learning more than one thing.

 

I'd recommend looking up and reading Alfred North Whitehead's (1861 - 1947) short essay, "Minds in a Groove". It is very profound, and and rings very true....especially so today.

 

But to the 5 years...well, adding 21 hours for coaching would do that. I wasn't aware such would even be considered a part of a college curricula.

 

I've no idea if they still have underclassmen as "Freshman Advisers". I was one my junior year - the idea (in my case) was to drum up fresh bodies for the Chem department.

 

But there were practical advantages. Advisers got to pick their class cards before the hoi polloi, and we got a free two weeks at College Camp (don't know if that still exists, either). Very nice reward for doing a bit of salesmanship.

 

Good luck to you, jzmack...you'll get through it!

[justnzane]

There is great value in learning more than one thing.

 

I agree but too much diversity in learning can shift focus away from the goal IMO, and thats what i feel my college has done.

 

But to the 5 years...well, adding 21 hours for coaching would do that. I wasn't aware such would even be considered a part of a college curricula.

 

yeah it is a minor that very few schools offer (mostly big PE schools), it covers certification to coach in NYS.

 

I've no idea if they still have underclassmen as "Freshman Advisers". I was one my junior year - the idea (in my case) was to drum up fresh bodies for the Chem department. 

 

Good luck to you, jzmack...you'll get through it!

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yeah they still exist in some shape at most schools and thank you cincy

[jimmy_from_north_buffalo]

Personally, I think this is the dumbest idea I've heard in a long time.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/11/21/an...l.ap/index.html

 

And this quote is so bogus it's not even funny:

"Others disagree, noting most adults can barely remember, or rarely use, most of what schools pounded into them."

 

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I think it's a great idea. The parents who send their kids there probably don't excpect much out of them anyway. I suppose some of the kids will learn leadership skills, but most will simply be followers. Like most people. This is not the wave of the future. What parent who wants their child to succeed would send them there? Those parents have many, many options to chose from.

 

I'm just wondering how discipline is handled. Do the kids set punishment? And I have to wonder if these students will blame their parents later in life when they don't turn out to be anything?

[jimmy_from_north_buffalo]

You mean like when an apostrophe is appropriate or the difference between your and you're?

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I hope you don't live in a glass house? 'your' or 'you're'

[/dev/null]

Good idea in theory

Bad idea in the real world

 

When I first read that I thought what a bunch of hippie nonsense. But when compared to the current educational system which is little more than a factory outputting under edumacated kids, it probably won't produce much worse results.

 

Initiatives like "No Child Left Behind" may sound like a good idea to some, but to me it just sounds like Quality Control on the factory

 

Encouraging creativity and curiousity in students is a good thing. But I fear this is just the pendulum swinging in the other direction of NCLFB.

 

It will probably just spit out kids who are creative, curious, and have no skills

[mcjeff215]

It's worse than just college level students..  I was taking an advanced fiction writing class in college (as an elective, since I like writing).  Most people in the class were English majors and sadly, most couldn't comprehend standard grammar (let alone write interesting stories...).  It's pretty sad when the professor tells the computer science major that he should be a writer, but doens't say that to the english majors.

I think a large part of the problem is that everyone thinks they need to go to college now.  When my parents were kids, they could learn a skill in high school or go to trade school.  Nowadays, that doesn't happen; high school is more like "college prep," and that hurts the students who aren't really college material.  Let's face it, not everyone is good enough to get a degree, and there's nothing wrong with that, but let's not try to force everyone through the (very expensive) college system.

CW

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Georgia has introduced the "Hope Scholarship" program. In a nutshell, the lottery pays for every (yes every) high school student to go to college as long as they can maintain a 'B' average. They must retain that B throughout the college years to keep the scholarship. It covers all tuition, most fees, and includes a book allowance.

 

This has *really* made college "grades 13 -16."

 

One of the most apparent downsides has been that students (and *parents*) see college as a right rather than a privelege. Teachers have been catching a lot of hell for giving grades less than a B.

 

As parents see that college is covered, you'd better believe that that savings goes towards more important things like BMWs and boats. When little Jimmy's butthole teacher "gives" him a C instead of a B, *someone* has hell to pay! That "Hope money" was his way through college! I have a fancy car! It's seen as something to be taken away rather than something to be earned.

 

Hell, they call the H.S. Diploma a "College Prep Diploma" 'round these parts.

 

It's a double-edged sword. Make it available to everyone and the collective benefit is going to drop. You'd damn well better believe I've been dumping into a 529 for my daughter already. She's five and can make it through Sophmore year. That said, if she lands a rockin' scholarship, *then* I buy my boat!

 

-Jeff

[Alaska Darin]

I hope you don't live in a glass house? 'your' or 'you're' 

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You made alot more sense when you were trying to kick Timmy's ass. How come you don't stutter when you type? (Note the proper use of a question mark)

 

But seriously, thanks for proving my point. Not only do you know dick about grammar/punctuation (try explaining how that first sentence should have a question mark at the end), but if I actually have to explain why "your" and "you're" sound the same but are actually different fuggin' words, then you are quite possibly the most moronic new poster of the year. That's quite an accomplishment. Congrats.

[daquixers_is_back]

You made alot more sense when you were trying to kick Timmy's ass.  How come you don't stutter when you type? (Note the proper use of a question mark)

 

But seriously, thanks for proving my point.  Not only do you know dick about grammar/punctuation (try explaining how that first sentence should have a question mark at the end), but if I actually have to explain why "your" and "you're" sound the same but are actually different fuggin' words, then you are quite possibly the most moronic new poster of the year.  That's quite an accomplishment.  Congrats.

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I dont know what his arguement was, so I wont comment on that ... but I have seen people use a question mark at the end of a sentence instead of having to create an entirely new thought. Such as ... instead of saying "I Hope you dont live in a glass house. Do you?" , you would say "I hope you dont live in a glass house?" and then just leave the question mark infering the second question.

[bartshan-83]

I dont know what his arguement was, so I wont comment on that ... but I have seen people use a question mark at the end of a sentence instead of having to create an entirely new thought. Such as ... instead of saying "I Hope you dont live in a glass house. Do you?" , you would say "I hope you dont live in a glass house?" and then just leave the question mark infering the second question.

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And I bet those people all got As in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle Cave Making.

[WVUFootball29]

LOL, nothing makes the work night more entertaining than threads like these.