X. Benedict Posted November 28, 2006 Posted November 28, 2006 Sharks vs Jets 850216[/snapback] I never really found that battle very believable. Guys with switchblades and Bob Fosse moves should be able to get along just fine.
Orton's Arm Posted December 1, 2006 Posted December 1, 2006 In regards to myself, i would not say that i am racist, but i would say some discrimination exists in me. For example i do categorize certain people into groups based on their appearence, but does that mean i am a racist? No. I am involved with people of all ethnicity's at HVCC and i am friends with a lot of people of other races. I think the thing that really bothers me though in today's world is that there is such a villanization of Caucasian males. It seems as though they/we are regarded as simple minded fools that are the root of all evil. Now personally i don't think that is fair to blame one kind of person for a problem that is disintegrating with every day in this country, but still this villanization grows. 846385[/snapback] Unfortunately, there were a few extremists who did what they could to stir up a lot of hate against white males. According to these people, white males were responsible for all the world's woes--environmental problems, all genocides whatsoever, etc. It sounds like you've recognized this view for what it is: venomous, ignorant hate.
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 2, 2006 Posted December 2, 2006 No. Racists are a favorite straw-man argument of the left. The last true racists are either dead or so close to death that they are inconsequential. We're just living in their shadow to even still discuss it. 845721[/snapback] I think there is blantant/overt rascism as you suggest in history... And then there is another kind that gets pushed "underground" when the overt doesn't float anymore... I am surprised nobody brought up how a person looks or what certain groups "perceive" to be beauty...
Bill from NYC Posted December 2, 2006 Posted December 2, 2006 I think there is blantant/overt rascism as you suggest in history... And then there is another kind that gets pushed "underground" when the overt doesn't float anymore... 854306[/snapback] Do you mean like making jokes about Ghandi working in a gas station?
RunTheBall Posted December 3, 2006 Posted December 3, 2006 You can't stop racism. You can only try and contain it.
ieatcrayonz Posted December 3, 2006 Posted December 3, 2006 I think there is blantant/overt rascism as you suggest in history... And then there is another kind that gets pushed "underground" when the overt doesn't float anymore... I am surprised nobody brought up how a person looks or what certain groups "perceive" to be beauty... 854306[/snapback] Some Canadains actually think some other Canadians aren't dumb and ugly.
Bungee Jumper Posted December 3, 2006 Posted December 3, 2006 You can't stop racism. You can only try and contain it. 854605[/snapback] It's a high-motor discrimination.
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 3, 2006 Posted December 3, 2006 Do you mean like making jokes about Ghandi working in a gas station? 854351[/snapback] Are you a Hindu advocate? All I can say for this is in as little words as possible... It isn't for YOU to decide Bill... You have no say in this matter. It doesn't matter what you think. Now if you are Hindu (or find someone that is Hindu) and were offended, I might begin to see your point... I really hope you can so as to shut me up... Lets use some sense here... You are making a mountain out of a mole hill. I never claimed to be on either extreme with regards to racism... There is a lot of gray areas... A lot of "tasteless" areas...
X. Benedict Posted December 3, 2006 Posted December 3, 2006 It's a high-motor discrimination. 854621[/snapback] How does it clock in the 40?
Bill from NYC Posted December 4, 2006 Posted December 4, 2006 It's a high-motor discrimination. 854621[/snapback]
Bill from NYC Posted December 4, 2006 Posted December 4, 2006 Are you a Hindu advocate? All I can say for this is in as little words as possible... It isn't for YOU to decide Bill... You have no say in this matter. It doesn't matter what you think. Now if you are Hindu (or find someone that is Hindu) and were offended, I might begin to see your point... I really hope you can so as to shut me up... Lets use some sense here... You are making a mountain out of a mole hill. I never claimed to be on either extreme with regards to racism... There is a lot of gray areas... A lot of "tasteless" areas... 854650[/snapback] You do know how much I enjoy your posts, but this one is just so full of nonsense and hypocrisy, I am sitting here bewildered. You are telling me that I can only be offended by Hillary's racial slur if I am a Hindu? If I was sitting here typing things in the manner of a Klansman; things againt blacks and jews, would you not have the right to be offended because you don't fit (to my knowledge) into either category? Face it...you are excusing the racial slur (joke or not) uttered by Hillary because she is a leftist. How did you like the stupid remarks by Trent Lott, or his patronizing, degrading effort to clean them up? Look, I am all for freedom of speech. Hillary SHOULD be allowed to make racial slurs as she chooses. She will probably continue to do so, as long as she has loyal leftist foot soldiers to back her up. People like, I don't know.......you.
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 4, 2006 Posted December 4, 2006 You do know how much I enjoy your posts, but this one is just so full of nonsense and hypocrisy, I am sitting here bewildered. You are telling me that I can only be offended by Hillary's racial slur if I am a Hindu? If I was sitting here typing things in the manner of a Klansman; things againt blacks and jews, would you not have the right to be offended because you don't fit (to my knowledge) into either category? Face it...you are excusing the racial slur (joke or not) uttered by Hillary because she is a leftist. How did you like the stupid remarks by Trent Lott, or his patronizing, degrading effort to clean them up? Look, I am all for freedom of speech. Hillary SHOULD be allowed to make racial slurs as she chooses. She will probably continue to do so, as long as she has loyal leftist foot soldiers to back her up. People like, I don't know.......you. 856405[/snapback] I would normally agree with you Bill... But, IMO I don't feel you are being sincere... I think you "cherry pick" some of your "heart felt" offendedness (if this is actually a word). Now, don't you feel offended... Just as you feel that I do the same... I just don't know you outside this forum... The way you hold on to baggage and then trot them out is beyond me. Oh... I have no opinion on Trent Lott, never did... What he said, I can't judge... I didn't really follow that... If he did try and clean up anything he said, I think that is great... He would have obviously have felt that he was taken out of context. As with anything (rascism included) how you are precceived and your credibility is everything. One can't unring a bell... But one can alleviate the act with their credibility, other's perception and/or past acts... In other words... Hillary wasn't a threat to the ones she was speaking (unless you can find a Hindu that believes different) to... Lott, I don't know about... Past transgressions may prove otherwise but, that is just my partisan bias showing. I know you were hurt or offended by Hillary's comment, that I will respect... Is Hillary a threat to you? Now if your feelings are in respect to the "one side can get away with it, how come the other can't" argument... I say get over it. Things aren't necessarily fair and more importantly you are not in control of what people do and say... Words become just words. Peace.
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 4, 2006 Posted December 4, 2006 You do know how much I enjoy your posts, but this one is just so full of nonsense and hypocrisy, I am sitting here bewildered. You are telling me that I can only be offended by Hillary's racial slur if I am a Hindu? If I was sitting here typing things in the manner of a Klansman; things againt blacks and jews, would you not have the right to be offended because you don't fit (to my knowledge) into either category? Face it...you are excusing the racial slur (joke or not) uttered by Hillary because she is a leftist. How did you like the stupid remarks by Trent Lott, or his patronizing, degrading effort to clean them up? Look, I am all for freedom of speech. Hillary SHOULD be allowed to make racial slurs as she chooses. She will probably continue to do so, as long as she has loyal leftist foot soldiers to back her up. People like, I don't know.......you. 856405[/snapback] I really should have answered your question(s)... Instead of going off... You are telling me that I can only be offended by Hillary's racial slur if I am a Hindu? No. If I was sitting here typing things in the manner of a Klansman; things againt blacks and jews, would you not have the right to be offended because you don't fit (to my knowledge) into either category? Yes. I never thought of it in terms of MY "right to be offended"... I just don't think of it that way. I could only think how wrong you may be for your beliefs... I would be hard pressed to actually be offended... And if in some rare instance I was, it would be out of the norm for me to type a reponse when I am in this state. Look back and see how I post Bill.
Bill from NYC Posted December 5, 2006 Posted December 5, 2006 I would normally agree with you Bill... But, IMO I don't feel you are being sincere... I think you "cherry pick" some of your "heart felt" offendedness (if this is actually a word). Now, don't you feel offended... Just as you feel that I do the same... I just don't know you outside this forum... The way you hold on to baggage and then trot them out is beyond me. Oh... I have no opinion on Trent Lott, never did... What he said, I can't judge... I didn't really follow that... If he did try and clean up anything he said, I think that is great... He would have obviously have felt that he was taken out of context. As with anything (rascism included) how you are precceived and your credibility is everything. One can't unring a bell... But one can alleviate the act with their credibility, other's perception and/or past acts... In other words... Hillary wasn't a threat to the ones she was speaking (unless you can find a Hindu that believes different) to... Lott, I don't know about... Past transgressions may prove otherwise but, that is just my partisan bias showing. I know you were hurt or offended by Hillary's comment, that I will respect... Is Hillary a threat to you? Now if your feelings are in respect to the "one side can get away with it, how come the other can't" argument... I say get over it. Things aren't necessarily fair and more importantly you are not in control of what people do and say... Words become just words. Peace. 856801[/snapback] Funny, you state that things don't bother you, yet I perceive you to be very sensitive. Because of this, I will tell you that I am sorry, and I sincerely mean this. I guess the post came off more mean and or angry than I was feeling, which was no anger at all. It probably looked like I was sandbagging you as well, but I truly was not. To me, you and I had never quite finished our debate on her racial slur. My issue is simple. Hillary is the type of leftist who actually poses as a civil rights champion, yet thinks it is OK to make a racial slur about a person who is exalted by millions of people. This sickens me. It has nothing to do with you, other than I feel you are too smart to justify this. Only one other thing.....the issue of Hindus feeling "threatened" by her remarks. India and Pakistan are seemingly always in a near state of war. When such a prominent person (senator and presidential candidate) feels free to make such a remark, a reasonable person could feel some concern, or so I think. That said, I will never bring this subject up to you again. If you think that I am looking for some sort of idiotic feud, or to embarrass you, you are quite mistaken. Sorry once again for the misunderstanding, OK?
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 5, 2006 Posted December 5, 2006 Funny, you state that things don't bother you, yet I perceive you to be very sensitive. Because of this, I will tell you that I am sorry, and I sincerely mean this. I guess the post came off more mean and or angry than I was feeling, which was no anger at all. It probably looked like I was sandbagging you as well, but I truly was not. To me, you and I had never quite finished our debate on her racial slur. My issue is simple. Hillary is the type of leftist who actually poses as a civil rights champion, yet thinks it is OK to make a racial slur about a person who is exalted by millions of people. This sickens me. It has nothing to do with you, other than I feel you are too smart to justify this. Only one other thing.....the issue of Hindus feeling "threatened" by her remarks. India and Pakistan are seemingly always in a near state of war. When such a prominent person (senator and presidential candidate) feels free to make such a remark, a reasonable person could feel some concern, or so I think. That said, I will never bring this subject up to you again. If you think that I am looking for some sort of idiotic feud, or to embarrass you, you are quite mistaken. Sorry once again for the misunderstanding, OK? 857270[/snapback] Your points are taken. Ok, lets finish the debate. I am gonna try and play "devil's advocate" again... Sorry, I got to ask many questions first to see where you stand... Why is her remark a racial slur?... I just want to hear why you think the actual remark: "Ghandi working at a gas station" is a slur? I think you might have explained it with your "exhaulted leader" remark?... Is it bad to be working, maybe even owning that gas station? Yes, Ghandi did great work... Would Ghandi himself feel dissed? Was he above such a "lowly" stature? Everybody has their life work... You could meet the next Jesus on the subway and not even know it... Would it be beneath Jesus to be riding on the subway? Where did Ghandi get his start? He was born to priviledge YET, he fought for labor and against poverty. Maybe our next civil rights champion will rise form the drive-through at McDonalds? So maybe "Ghandi" is working at a gas station?... Thanks in part to Ghandi. Why do you feel dissed? Do you think it is a bad thing to work in a gas station? It is a true fact that lots of Indians own and work gas stations, convienence stores, etc... How is this a bad thing for them? In what way did Hillary degrade them? Feel free to include the workings of the caste system if you may... With the umbrage you take, I see you propograting the very workings of the oppressive Indian caste system... Thanks to M. Ghandi, today "Ghandi" CAN work at a gas station... And that is NOT a bad thing... See that is the thing... You hear Hillary speak, all you hear is your "Ghandi=Exalted leader"... Blah, blah, blah... This is no bullsh*t Bill, true I am not Hindu ... I just don't FIRST think of the term Ghandi being "exhalted leader"... True he was. Now if she would have used "towel head", "dot head"... I would see your point.
Bill from NYC Posted December 5, 2006 Posted December 5, 2006 It is a true fact that lots of Indians own and work gas stations, convienence stores, etc... How is this a bad thing for them? In what way did Hillary degrade them? Now if she would have used "towel head", "dot head"... I would see your point. 857831[/snapback] It is also true that many black people like to eat chicken. Is it OK for Trent Lott, or some other idiot senator to make a joke which describes Martin Luther King as "chicken-eater?" These are men that are known for the good things that they did, not for the alleged habits of their people. I have heard convenience store/Indian jokes before. This one was mad about a man who was far removed from this type of employment. Again, we are talking about a sitting senator from NYS making a racial joke about a hero to tens of millions. As for gas stations, I worked in one when I was a kid. Then again, I am not Ghandi.
Orton's Arm Posted December 5, 2006 Posted December 5, 2006 It is also true that many black people like to eat chicken. Is it OK for Trent Lott, or some other idiot senator to make a joke which describes Martin Luther King as "chicken-eater?" These are men that are known for the good things that they did, not for the alleged habits of their people. I have heard convenience store/Indian jokes before. This one was mad about a man who was far removed from this type of employment. Again, we are talking about a sitting senator from NYS making a racial joke about a hero to tens of millions. As for gas stations, I worked in one when I was a kid. Then again, I am not Ghandi. 857898[/snapback] I'm absolutely no fan of Hillary at all. That said, we've become far too PC in this country, and I'm tired of it. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to bash Hillary. This isn't one of them.
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 5, 2006 Posted December 5, 2006 It is also true that many black people like to eat chicken. Is it OK for Trent Lott, or some other idiot senator to make a joke which describes Martin Luther King as "chicken-eater?" These are men that are known for the good things that they did, not for the alleged habits of their people. I have heard convenience store/Indian jokes before. This one was mad about a man who was far removed from this type of employment. Again, we are talking about a sitting senator from NYS making a racial joke about a hero to tens of millions. As for gas stations, I worked in one when I was a kid. Then again, I am not Ghandi. 857898[/snapback] You are missing the point Bill... "Ghandi" symbolizes more than just the man... I am not sure how she phrased it? Did she mean M. Ghandi HIMSELF working in a gas station? I didn't really follow it. I am not trying to defend her out of blind following either. Big difference in calling MLK a "chicken eater" than saying "Ghandi working in a gas station"... To me, there is nothing demeaning about gainful employment... As should be with everybody else... We do value gainful employment, working hard and pulling one's self up by the perverbial "boot straps"... Don't we? Eating chicken, is a PERSONAL attack... It portrays a very PERSONAL activity, eating. Like these cases: Martin Luther King is a "chicken eater." M. Ghandi is a "bean eater." Did she say: "M. Ghandi IS a cash station worker." ?? That MAY be offensive... Me personally... I could care less if someone said Jesus shoveled sh*t... Because he probably personally did... He was a man... But, tell my grandmother that he did or was a short, dark and curly haired, dark skinned middle eastern looking man (not the blond, blue-eyed Scandanavian... "Jesus Christ SuperStar" figure)... She would call you the devil and go ballistic on your arse... Yet, I regress... Now again, saying something about Ghandi and his vegetarian lifestyle is a racist, personal attack. Same goes here in the forum... Read the terms of service... By what I HAVE HEARD by no means did HC personally attack Ghandi, Indians, Hindu, or anybody else. She commented on GAINFUL employment (true held by lots of Indians) that we in this country and the world (outside the one's who support caste society etc...) hold to be honorable. Why would anybody get indignant about that? Except her ememies? Or do you think she was PERSONALLY mocking all these people and Ghandi himself?... Does she (HC) look down on GAINFUL employment?... Maybe you think so, I don't. Of course she may have apologized... One is never gonna put into context your past words... Apology is the best answer.
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 5, 2006 Posted December 5, 2006 So Bill, I am I to understand that Hillary Clinton WHILE SPEAKING TO A GROUP OF INDIAN LEADERS was so brazen as to openly mock them? That is how you make it sound... Lott's comments? Were they the same (in the same setting/dynamics)? I think Mario Cuomo had a good point on rascism... It is the comments around your dinner table that are the most insidious... The comments that are confined within you own group. No, by no means am I calling open, brazen comments better... That isn't the point... Because in this day and age it doesn't really happen... Yet, again... I am to believe that the "Hill Bill" is breaking new ground in this area!
ieatcrayonz Posted December 5, 2006 Posted December 5, 2006 You are missing the point Bill... "Ghandi" symbolizes more than just the man... I am not sure how she phrased it? Did she mean M. Ghandi HIMSELF working in a gas station? I didn't really follow it. I am not trying to defend her out of blind following either. Big difference in calling MLK a "chicken eater" than saying "Ghandi working in a gas station"... To me, there is nothing demeaning about gainful employment... As should be with everybody else... We do value gainful employment, working hard and pulling one's self up by the perverbial "boot straps"... Don't we? Eating chicken, is a PERSONAL attack... It portrays a very PERSONAL activity, eating. Like these cases: Martin Luther King is a "chicken eater." M. Ghandi is a "bean eater." Did she say: "M. Ghandi IS a cash station worker." ?? That MAY be offensive... Me personally... I could care less if someone said Jesus shoveled sh*t... Because he probably personally did... He was a man... But, tell my grandmother that he did or was a short, dark and curly haired, dark skinned middle eastern looking man (not the blond, blue-eyed Scandanavian... "Jesus Christ SuperStar" figure)... She would call you the devil and go ballistic on your arse... Yet, I regress... Now again, saying something about Ghandi and his vegetarian lifestyle is a racist, personal attack. Same goes here in the forum... Read the terms of service... By what I HAVE HEARD by no means did HC personally attack Ghandi, Indians, Hindu, or anybody else. She commented on GAINFUL employment (true held by lots of Indians) that we in this country and the world (outside the one's who support caste society etc...) hold to be honorable. Why would anybody get indignant about that? Except her ememies? Or do you think she was PERSONALLY mocking all these people and Ghandi himself?... Does she (HC) look down on GAINFUL employment?... Maybe you think so, I don't. Of course she may have apologized... One is never gonna put into context your past words... Apology is the best answer. 857937[/snapback] Illinois via Canada?
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