UConn James Posted November 18, 2006 Posted November 18, 2006 I have no idea why they would use excessive force on a student who was leaving the building, who wasn't posing a threat to anyone else, nor was offering up resistance. I am sure a lot of people will be asking them that question. 840089[/snapback] I also was wondering what was the need to lift him off the ground just to taser him the 3rd and 4th time. Bunch of wanna-be cops on a power trip. If they could have lifted him, which they showed they could, it would have been just as easy to toss his ass out the door. I fail to see the need to taser him 3 or 4 times. 840102[/snapback] Sorry to say that this is par for about 40% of university security/police, and it goes up during moments of tension. Granted that the guy was stupid for not picking up and leaving straight away, but that should not get you tasered several times in the USA. Not questioning the methodology is what the Blue Wall of Silence depends on when one of their own goes too far. What if this had been a diabetic situation? No difference, if you've ever seen one. They took the weaponized way out rather than actually doing police work and trying to resolve it through calming the situation down rather than ratcheting it up. It may take 10-15 minutes more, but no one needs to get tased. There's been several incidents with Tasers being used at times they shouldn't or for longer than they need to be. On the contrary to SnR's contention, I would submit that it is a classic boys with toys scenario. My brother is a city cop; he's seen it himself. As for the other students who were threatened and the comments generated here, what would you do if someone was in front of you and seeing a real-life version of what was on the video. Sadly, I think most people would have just stood there; most people stood around when the SS came, too. At what point would it have been self-defense to try to fight back? The first tase? The second, after you said you'd leave? The third?.... The fourth? As ubiquitous as the news stories are, they are not 100% safe; they can kill people. We can only hope for an independent investigation of this, and from what I saw, I hope these people find themselves on the other side of the law.
Chilly Posted November 18, 2006 Posted November 18, 2006 This was my take on it: 1.) The kid is an idiot and had no idea how to handle himself in that situation. 2.) Those cops are overzealous !@#$s. They've got plenty of police there and should have easily been able to overpower him without tasering him 30,000 times.
TheMadCap Posted November 18, 2006 Posted November 18, 2006 As for the other students who were threatened and the comments generated here, what would you do if someone was in front of you and seeing a real-life version of what was on the video. Sadly, I think most people would have just stood there; most people stood around when the SS came, too. 840380[/snapback] with all due respect, are you suggesting the people watching should have attacked the police? If I was there personally, I would have yelled, "STOP RESISTING YOU FUGGIN RETARD" to the idiot making a scene. At what point would it have been self-defense to try to fight back? The first tase? The second, after you said you'd leave? The third?.... The fourth? 840380[/snapback] I think that is EXACTLY the problem, the guy was fighting back/resisting. He said he would leave and remained on the floor. Sadly, this whole event could have been avoided by the dumbass in question just COMPLING WITH THE RULES, AND FOLLOWING THE DIRECTIONS OF THE POLICE. I am not sure how the people "outraged" by this keep avoiding this very easy solution to the problem...
Chilly Posted November 18, 2006 Posted November 18, 2006 Sadly, this whole event could have been avoided by the dumbass in question just COMPLING WITH THE RULES, AND FOLLOWING THE DIRECTIONS OF THE POLICE. I am not sure how the people "outraged" by this keep avoiding this very easy solution to the problem... 840398[/snapback] How the hell does the kid being a dumbshit excuse the police response to him? Everyone that wants to pin this completely on the kid has acted as if the police were fine.
erynthered Posted November 18, 2006 Posted November 18, 2006 How the hell does the kid being a dumbshit excuse the police response to him? 840400[/snapback] Would it have gotten escalated, had the Terrorist not complied with the police in the first place?
Nanker Posted November 18, 2006 Posted November 18, 2006 Article Community responds to Taser use in Powell By Sara Taylor An incident late Tuesday night in which a UCLA student was stunned at least four times with a Taser has left the UCLA community questioning whether the university police officers' use of force was an appropriate response to the situation. Mostafa Tabatabainejad, a UCLA student, was repeatedly stunned with a Taser and then taken into custody when he did not exit the CLICC Lab in Powell Library in a timely manner. Community Service Officers had asked Tabatabainejad to leave after he failed to produce his BruinCard during a random check at around 11:30 p.m. Tuesday. UCPD Assistant Chief of Police Jeff Young said the checks are a standard procedure in the library after 11 p.m. "Because of the safety of the students we limit the use after 11 to just students, staff and faculty," Young said. Young said the CSOs on duty in the library at the time went to get UCPD officers when Tabatabainejad did not immediately leave, and UCPD officers resorted to use of the Taser when Tabatabainejad did not do as he was told. A six-minute video showed Tabatabainejad audibly screaming in pain as he was stunned several times with a Taser, each time for three to five seconds. He was told repeatedly to stand up and stop fighting, and was told that if he did not do so he would "get Tased again." "(He was) no possible danger to any of the police," Zaragoza said. "(He was) getting shocked and Tasered as he was handcuffed." But Young said at the time the police likely had no way of knowing whether the individual was armed or that he was a student. As Tabatabainejad was being dragged through the room by two officers, he repeated in a strained scream, "I'm not fighting you" and "I said I would leave." The officers used the "drive stun" setting in the Taser, which delivers a shock to a specific part of the body with the front of the Taser, Young said. A Taser delivers volts of low-amperage energy to the body, causing a disruption of the body's electrical energy pulses and locking the muscles, according to a report by the American Civil Liberties Union. "It's an electrical shock. ... It causes pain," Young said, adding that the drive stun would not likely demobilize a person or cause residual pain after the shock was administered. Young also said a Taser is less forceful than a baton, for example. But according to a study published in the Lancet Medical Journal in 2001, a charge of three to five seconds can result in immobilization for five to 15 minutes, which would mean that Tabatabainejad could have been physically unable to stand when the officers demanded that he do so. "It is a real mistake to treat a Taser as some benign thing that painlessly brings people under control," said Peter Eliasberg, managing attorney at the ACLU of Southern California. "The Taser can be incredibly violent and result in death," Eliasberg said. According to an ACLU report, 148 people in the United States and Canada have died as a result of the use of Tasers since 1999. During the altercation between Tabatabainejad and the officers, bystanders can be heard in the video repeatedly asking the officers to stop and requesting their names and identification numbers. The video showed one officer responding to a student by threatening that the student would "get Tased too." At this point, the officer was still holding a Taser. Such a threat of the use of force by a law enforcement officer in response to a request for a badge number is an "illegal assault," Eliasberg said. "It is absolutely illegal to threaten anyone who asks for a badge â€" that's assault," he said. Tabatabainejad was released from custody after being given a citation for obstruction/delay of a peace officer in the performance of duty. Neither Tabatabainejad nor his family were giving interviews Wednesday. Police officers said they determined the use of Tasers was necessary when Tabatabainejad did not do as they asked. According to a UCPD press release, Tabatabainejad went limp and refused to exit as the officers attempted to escort him out. The release also stated Tabatabainejad "encouraged library patrons to join his resistance." At this point, the officers "deemed it necessary to use the Taser in a "drive stun' capacity." "He wasn't cooperative; he wouldn't identify himself. He resisted the officers," Young said. Neither the video footage nor eyewitness accounts of the events confirmed that Tabatabainejad encouraged resistance, and he repeatedly told the officers he was not fighting and would leave. Tabatabainejad was walking with his backpack toward the door when he was approached by two UCPD officers, one of whom grabbed the student's arm. In response, Tabatabainejad yelled at the officers to "get off me." Following this demand, Tabatabainejad was stunned with a Taser. UCPD and the UCLA administration would not comment on the specifics of the incident as it is still under investigation. In a statement released Wednesday, Interim Chancellor Norman Abrams said investigators were reviewing the situation and the officers' actions. "I can assure you that these reviews will be thorough, vigorous and fair," Abrams said. The incident, which Zaragoza described as an example of "police brutality," left many students disturbed. "I realize when looking at these kind of arrest tapes that they don't always show the full picture. ... But that six minutes that we can watch just seems like it's a ridiculous amount of force for someone being escorted because they forgot their BruinCard," said Ali Ghandour, a fourth-year anthropology student. "It certainly makes you wonder if something as small as forgetting your BruinCard can eventually lead to getting Tased several times in front of the library," he added. Edouard Tchertchian, a third-year mathematics student, said he was concerned that the student was not offered any other means of showing that he was a UCLA student. 839955[/snapback] Yeah, ok. But what did the article say? I'm too tired to click the link.
Chilly Posted November 18, 2006 Posted November 18, 2006 Would it have gotten escalated, had the Terrorist not complied with the police in the first place? 840403[/snapback] lol
UConn James Posted November 18, 2006 Posted November 18, 2006 with all due respect, are you suggesting the people watching should have attacked the police? If I was there personally, I would have yelled, "STOP RESISTING YOU FUGGIN RETARD" to the idiot making a scene. I think that is EXACTLY the problem, the guy was fighting back/resisting. He said he would leave and remained on the floor. Sadly, this whole event could have been avoided by the dumbass in question just COMPLING WITH THE RULES, AND FOLLOWING THE DIRECTIONS OF THE POLICE. I am not sure how the people "outraged" by this keep avoiding this very easy solution to the problem... 840398[/snapback] It's something to think about, at what point would it be necessary to act in self-defense against the police/gov't. I wouldn't say that we're at "V for Vendetta", but it's closer than you think. The laws allowing this, allowing that, trickle down from the federal level such that paramilitary organizations are emboldened to do as they want. And then, the tone they set is ingrained in the entire population; to wit, small-scale crime is actually down, but violent crime (rape, murder, etc) has increased exponentially in this country --- by 400% in some areas. .... So, if he stays on the ground, exhausted from the tasing, he is 'resisting' and needs to be tased again. If he gets up he is 'resisting' and needs to be tased again. WTF is this, Monty Python?
pdh1 Posted November 18, 2006 Posted November 18, 2006 Bingo. I have no pitty for people who get jacked up as a direct result of their own "righteousness". 840091[/snapback] Anybody ever think he may have been goading the guards to get some type of reaction? Then set up to a big lawsuit, and non-stop coverage on TNN (Terrorist News Network, Al Jeeezera). How do you think a Western Student caught in the same situation in the middle east ( do they have Universities there?) would be treated? Do you think they would be able to sue for millions? Do you think their heads would still be attached? http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1735519/posts "This is your Patriot act!" shut the hell up...
Chilly Posted November 18, 2006 Posted November 18, 2006 Anybody ever think he may have been goading the guards to get some type of reaction?Then set up to a big lawsuit, and non-stop coverage on TNN (Terrorist News Network, Al Jeeezera). Even if he was, how does that excuse the cops response to him/ How do you think a Western Student caught in the same situation in the middle east ( do they have Universities there?) would be treated? Do you think they would be able to sue for millions? Do you think their heads would still be attached? http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1735519/posts "This is your Patriot act!" shut the hell up... 840421[/snapback] Yeah, because after all, what would happen to someone in another country has everything to do with what happened to someone, who for all we know is a legal citizen, in this country. Unless I missed a memo, we don't enforce middle eastern laws on arabs in this country.
OGTEleven Posted November 18, 2006 Posted November 18, 2006 It's something to think about, at what point would it be necessary to act in self-defense against the police/gov't. I wouldn't say that we're at "V for Vendetta", but it's closer than you think. The laws allowing this, allowing that, trickle down from the federal level such that paramilitary organizations are emboldened to do as they want. And then, the tone they set is ingrained in the entire population; to wit, small-scale crime is actually down, but violent crime (rape, murder, etc) has increased exponentially in this country --- by 400% in some areas. .... So, if he stays on the ground, exhausted from the tasing, he is 'resisting' and needs to be tased again. If he gets up he is 'resisting' and needs to be tased again. WTF is this, Monty Python? 840412[/snapback] How about if he left when he was first asked before the police were called? How about if he when the police first arrived? How about if he left after one of the first 100 times the police asked him before he was tased? How many friggin times should they need to ask this idiot? If he does not do what they say, what should they do? Taze him or offer to take him to Friendly's for a sundae? You stated that they could have taken a little more time and calmed things down. You completely failed to take into account that before the filming even began, the moron had been asked leave, he didn't. The police came (after however long it took them to arrive) and presumably spoke with him for at least a few seconds before the filming began. When the filming began the first sound you hear is the guy screaming "Don't touch me" at the top of his lungs. Who was it that was escalating the situation? When he is tazed the first time he goes on a "Patriot Act" "Abuse of power" tirade, again at the top of his lungs. What, if any reason did the police have to believe him? He was saying he would comply, not complying and screaming political slogans at them. Do you think the police officers woke up that morning wanting that to happen? Do you think he did? Odds are neither wanted it. If one party did, which party do you think it was? Using the phrase "to wit" in a post where you type a series of dumb things does not make the post look smarter. Where did you get your 40% statistic on cops overusing force and needlessly brutalizing people? Was that one straight out of your a$$? Are all of these cops dumb because they did not go to UConn like the genious that is you? Attack the police in these situations for the benefit of society? Comparing these guys to the friggin SS? You are in real need of perspective.
TheMadCap Posted November 18, 2006 Posted November 18, 2006 It's something to think about, at what point would it be necessary to act in self-defense against the police/gov't. I wouldn't say that we're at "V for Vendetta", but it's closer than you think. The laws allowing this, allowing that, trickle down from the federal level such that paramilitary organizations are emboldened to do as they want. And then, the tone they set is ingrained in the entire population; to wit, small-scale crime is actually down, but violent crime (rape, murder, etc) has increased exponentially in this country --- by 400% in some areas. .... So, if he stays on the ground, exhausted from the tasing, he is 'resisting' and needs to be tased again. If he gets up he is 'resisting' and needs to be tased again. WTF is this, Monty Python? 840412[/snapback] A bit melodramatic don't you think? But I understand what you are trying to say. But I don't agree, if anything, we are going in the opposite direction. Which is kind of bad, I must admit, because I wouldn't mind seeing dumbasses take a beating for stepping out of line once in a while. And if he would have just gotten up, and been cool, no more tasing. Anyways, I'm done with this subject. Everyone has thier own ideas, and no one is going to convince anyone.
ieatcrayonz Posted November 18, 2006 Posted November 18, 2006 Regain themselves?? Are you an idiot? 840356[/snapback] I think it was a typo. JZ may have thought the person getting tased was bald and deserved a chance to Rogaine themsleves. It makes more sense if you read it that way.
UConn James Posted November 18, 2006 Posted November 18, 2006 A bit melodramatic don't you think? But I understand what you are trying to say. But I don't agree, if anything, we are going in the opposite direction. Which is kind of bad, I must admit, because I wouldn't mind seeing dumbasses take a beating for stepping out of line once in a while. And if he would have just gotten up, and been cool, no more tasing. 840439[/snapback] I don't think anyone is arguing with that, but the point trying to be made is they shouldn't take a free license to Taser everyone who acts irrationally. Was the 6-year in Florida acting irrationally? The elderly woman in Ohio who was sitting in a (hospital?) chair? The mentality that this is a "non-lethal" weapon directly relates to the inclination to use it for quick compliance in lieu of a peaceable resolution. Maybe I'm just suffering from the ideal that it's their duty to do their utmost to avoid this, whether it takes 10 minutes or 2 hours. That several officers collectively screamed at him "100 times" doesn't make the response correct, measured or appropriate. They did nothing to calm the situation and did a lot to agitate it.
Oneonta Buffalo Fan Posted November 18, 2006 Posted November 18, 2006 I probably was the first one to see this. Is this how the police treat people today?! I'll be so nervous once I get pulled over by a cop on my first traffic ticket. I don't think I'll be able to think straight.
Wacka Posted November 18, 2006 Posted November 18, 2006 Notice how it's the young naive college students stand up for the fuggin idiot. He started it by not having his ID card (if he really was a student). The idiot is totally at fault. Typical "the rules don't apply to me mentality".
KD in CA Posted November 18, 2006 Posted November 18, 2006 How the hell does the kid being a dumbshit excuse the police response to him? Everyone that wants to pin this completely on the kid has acted as if the police were fine. 840400[/snapback] The police were fine. Failure to respond to legitimate authorities gives them adequate reason to escalate the situation until the dumbsh*t in question responds.
sweetbaboo Posted November 18, 2006 Posted November 18, 2006 from the video, it sounds like the kid deserved it if a cop asks you to leave and puts his hands on you, you don't start yelling "get your hands off me!" and "there's your patriot act after they first tased him and asked him to leave, it looks like he's trying to be a dead weight in their arms while still trying to be a smartass by asking for their badge #'s...don't worry, when they throw your ass in a holding cell, the officers will file a report college students are morons...they all think they are sooo smart...i should know...i used to be one
Bungee Jumper Posted November 18, 2006 Posted November 18, 2006 The police were fine. Failure to respond to legitimate authorities gives them adequate reason to escalate the situation until the dumbsh*t in question responds. 840452[/snapback] Police? I thought these were campus rent-a-cops.
Chilly Posted November 18, 2006 Posted November 18, 2006 The police were fine. Failure to respond to legitimate authorities gives them adequate reason to escalate the situation until the dumbsh*t in question responds. 840452[/snapback] Why the hell didn't they just drag him out instead of tasering the guy over and over? Seems excessive to me. Police? I thought these were campus rent-a-cops. 840475[/snapback] There were both there. The guys with tasers, UCPD, are actual police officers. Lots of bigger Universities do this (like UTPD here in Austin). The timeline according to the school newspaper article that I read online went like this: 1.) The rent-a-cop performs a search of IDs, the student is found to be without his BruinCard and is asked to leave. 2.) The rent-a-cop decides that the student is not leaving quickly enough, and calls UCPD. 3.) UCPD arrives within 2-3 minutes, the student has already begun leaving. 4.) UCPD finds the student walking towards the exit of the library, and a UCPD officer grabs the student's arm. 5.) The student does not respond well to this move, starts telling the officers to let go of him and makes his body go limp. 6.) This is where the video picks up from.
Recommended Posts