UCLA 'taser' scandal...

[slothrop]

"Resisting the cops"?

 

According to a study published in the Lancet Medical Journal in 2001, a charge of three to five seconds can result in immobilization for five to 15 minutes, which would mean that Tabatabainejad could have been physically unable to stand when the officers demanded that he do so.

840695[/snapback]

 

 

Exactly

[SilverNRed]

"Resisting the cops"?

 

According to a study published in the Lancet Medical Journal in 2001, a charge of three to five seconds can result in immobilization for five to 15 minutes, which would mean that Tabatabainejad could have been physically unable to stand when the officers demanded that he do so.

840695[/snapback]

Fantastic. And is there any way of knowing how long he was zapped with the taser from the video (audio) clip?

 

Three seconds is a long time to be holding a taser to someone. It's more likely he was zapped for less than 1 second each time.

[OGTEleven]

"Resisting the cops"?

 

According to a study published in the Lancet Medical Journal in 2001, a charge of three to five seconds can result in immobilization for five to 15 minutes, which would mean that Tabatabainejad could have been physically unable to stand when the officers demanded that he do so.

840695[/snapback]

Of course that would depend on the setting of the device and various other factors uncited in any report about this incident.

 

Why are you supposing that this guy was immobilized?

 

When asked to stand while immobilized, which is the more logical response?

 

A - "I would stand but I can't move"

 

or

 

B - "This is your Patriot act"

 

There is no indication whatsoever in this report, or on tape that the guy was unable to move after being tazed. It is pretty clear that he was mobile pre-tazing. He didn't leave then either.

[bartshan-83]

I'd say that being an @sshole and saying dumbass things to a bunch of cops WHILE cuffed does not consitute such excessive force.

 

What if instead of tasering him, they pulled out night sticks and started beating him? Is that okay because he mentioned "Patriot Act" in the wrong context?

 

Bottom line is that people are going to complain that he will get $$$ while cops get fired possibly. Well guess what? Blame the cops (or security officers). Just as he had a choice to walk out the first time, THEY had a choice to drag him out while he was cuffed and arrest him. Then he would be the dumbass facing multiple school and legal infractions, and they would be chilling out.

 

Multiple cops, one goofy college student? Yeah tasers were probably the best choice.

[Dr. K]

I'd say that being an @sshole and saying dumbass things to a bunch of cops WHILE cuffed does not consitute such excessive force.

 

What if instead of tasering him, they pulled out night sticks and started beating him?  Is that okay because he mentioned "Patriot Act" in the wrong context?

 

Bottom line is that people are going to complain that he will get $$$ while cops get fired possibly.  Well guess what?  Blame the cops (or security officers).  Just as he had a choice to walk out the first time, THEY had a choice to drag him out while he was cuffed and arrest him.  Then he would be the dumbass facing multiple school and legal infractions, and they would be chilling out.

 

Multiple cops, one goofy college student?  Yeah tasers were probably the best choice.

840716[/snapback]

 

Exactly. When you take on the job of being a police officer, you also take on the responsibility of acting more rationally than the people you are likely to be dealing with. You have to legal right to use force, and so you better be damned careful that the force you use is warranted.

 

This guy was an American college student of Iranian descent, born and raised in the USA. A U.S. citizen. I don't know what the circumstances were exactly before the cops arrived, but I just wonder, when the security in the library came around to check IDs, were they checking everybody in the study room or did they single him out (perhaps as one of several)? Somebody in this guy's situation has already probably been hassled for years about his descent, his name, his skin color. It's very likely he had a short fuse about being singled out, and did not react well. He probably should have reacted more calmly.

 

NONE of this justifies the cops' actions, in my opinion. Cops have a terribly hard job, but these cops reacted like a gang protecting their turf, not like representatives of the state. Not the first time this has happened, and it won't be the last. Thank God for video cameras.

[KD in CA]

I'd say that being an @sshole and saying dumbass things to a bunch of cops WHILE cuffed does not consitute such excessive force.

 

If he wasn't being an @sshole than he wouldn't have been cuffed in the first place. In fact, the cops would never have been there at all. Clearly he was being an @sshole LONG before he was in cuffs.

 

The longer and louder you are being an @sshole to the cops, the more likely they are (and have a right) to do what is necessary to force compliance.

 

 

Sympathy level for this guy = Zero or less.

[Dr. K]

If he wasn't being an @sshole than he wouldn't have been cuffed in the first place.  In fact, the cops would never have been there at all.  Clearly he was being an @sshole LONG before he was in cuffs.

 

The longer and louder you are being an @sshole to the cops, the more likely they are (and have a right) to do what is necessary to force compliance.

Sympathy level for this guy = Zero or less.

840727[/snapback]

 

 

He was cuffed because he didn't stand up after they tasered him repeatedly. Did you watch the video? You think this use of force was warranted in this situation?

 

In every confrontation between a cop and a citizen, do you side with the cop? I do in 95% of the situations. But not all of them.

[Chilly]

Considering it's a UC is a state university, it could be the same.

 

Considering it's a California state university...I wouldn't bet on it. 

840611[/snapback]

 

I googled their website real quick and they are.

 

 

And do you believe that the timeline provided by the student newspaper is actually factual?

 

Do you also have the CBS News memo's?

 

Wake up and smell the coffee, or take your lips off the bong................

840646[/snapback]

 

Reading comprehension is hard for you, isn't it?

 

I was responding to Tom's question about whether they were just rent-a-cops by explaining that both there there and then offering the timeline that the Daily Bruin had to show the difference.

 

I made absolutely NO comments other then that, and you start putting words in my mouth and then start attacking me.

 

You, sir, are a dipshit.

[KD in CA]

In every confrontation between a cop and a citizen, do you side with the cop?  I do in 95% of the situations.  But not all of them.

840730[/snapback]

 

No, not always. Only about 99%, including this one.

[bartshan-83]

If he wasn't being an @sshole than he wouldn't have been cuffed in the first place.  In fact, the cops would never have been there at all.  Clearly he was being an @sshole LONG before he was in cuffs.

 

The longer and louder you are being an @sshole to the cops, the more likely they are (and have a right) to do what is necessary to force compliance.

Sympathy level for this guy = Zero or less.

840727[/snapback]

I don't have much sympathy for him...in fact that number will reach zero if/when he gets some dough out of this mess.

 

However, my anger in that situation rests with the cops. THEY are the ones that fkced this all up. I agree with you that cops have a right to do whatever is necessary to force compliance. Where we disagree is that I don't think being tasered multiple times was in any way necessary. To me, that is saying that tasering him was the least brutal thing they could do to him to remove him from the building. And I call BS on that. They could have accomplished everything they did without the taser. I mean, like I said, beating him would also have forced compliance, but that is beyond what is needed to remedy the situation.

 

I mean people will disagree, but I think the use of a taser in that situation is completely unwarranted. Being a cuffed college student, he posed about zero threat to half a dozen cops. Acting like an @sshole does not give the cops carte blanche to go over the top, IMO.

[Dr. K]

No, not always.  Only about 99%, including this one.   

840737[/snapback]

 

So what does it take to get you NOT to side with the cops? Did you side with the cops on the Rodney King incident, for instance?

[SilverNRed]

Acting like an @sshole does not give the cops carte blanche to go over the top, IMO.

840738[/snapback]

Like I said before, the cops have no idea why this guy won't leave the library. They don't know if he's really a student because he doesn't have ID. They have no idea why he's acting so irrational when asked to leave the library. They don't know why he completely flips out when they grab his arm (most likely his upper arm) to escort him out of the building (which is pretty much exactly what you would expect the police to do when someone won't leave). For all they know he's on drugs or carrying a weapon or just plain nuts.

 

Basically this idiot student did everything he could to prolong the situation and makes things worse until the police finally did something wrong or at least something that people would latch onto to say the police were the bad guys.

 

And even if they never used the taser, you know this guy would be showing up in civil court with a neck brace talking about the racist cops who targetted him because he's Iranian. You could do just as much damage jumping on top of the guy to get him under control, maybe more. It's not easy to subdue and move a person who is struggling and fighting you every step of the way. Especially when you're surrounded by a bunch of people who immediately think he's a hero for standing up to the "rent-a-cops."

[KD in CA]

So what does it take to get you NOT to side with the cops?  Did you side with the cops on the Rodney King incident, for instance?

840742[/snapback]

 

Yup.

 

It always amazes me that people refuse to acknowledge that a perp's actions are going to have an impact on the cops. They are human beings you know. Rodney King put those guys' lives in danger. And for what? Where is the justification for his actions? And why do people get so worked up on behalf of a complete scumbag like that? He deserved worse than he got.

[Dr. K]

Like I said before, the cops have no idea why this guy won't leave the library.  They don't know if he's really a student because he doesn't have ID.  They have no idea why he's acting so irrational when asked to leave the library.  They don't know why he completely flips out when they grab his arm (most likely his upper arm) to escort him out of the building (which is pretty much exactly what you would expect the police to do when someone won't leave).  For all they know he's on drugs or carrying a weapon or just plain nuts.

 

Basically this idiot student did everything he could to prolong the situation and makes things worse until the police finally did something wrong or at least something that people would latch onto to say the police were the bad guys.

 

And even if they never used the taser, you know this guy would be showing up in civil court with a neck brace talking about the racist cops who targetted him because he's Iranian.  You could do just as much damage jumping on top of the guy to get him under control, maybe more.  It's not easy to subdue and move a person who is struggling and fighting you every step of the way.  Especially when you're surrounded by a bunch of people who immediately think he's a hero for standing up to the "rent-a-cops."

840746[/snapback]

 

Witnesses said the guy was already leaving when the cops grabbed him. He repeatedly screams that he's leaving and they keep tasing him, even after the have him in handcuffs.

 

Did you watch the video? The people watching did not think he was a hero for standing up to the cops. They were astonished at the unnecessary force the cops used on a guy writhing in pain on the floor. He was completely "under control." The cops were the ones who were out of control.

[Dr. K]

Yup.

 

It always amazes me that people refuse to acknowledge that a perp's actions are going to have an impact on the cops.  They are human beings you know.  Rodney King put those guys' lives in danger.  And for what?  Where is the justification for his actions?  And why do people get so worked up on behalf of a complete scumbag like that?  He deserved worse than he got.

840753[/snapback]

 

I begin to suspect your 99% support for the police should be 100%. Can you give me an example of an incident where you DID NOT side with the cops? How about the Dialo incident in NYC?

[SilverNRed]

Witnesses said the guy was already leaving when the cops grabbed him. He repeatedly screams that he's leaving and they keep tasing him, even after the have him in handcuffs.

840754[/snapback]

So you really think he was leaving and the cops just decided to tackle and taser him?

 

If by "leaving" he was taking a step towards the door and then stopping to make a scene for a few minutes before considering taking another step, then that's not leaving. That's pretty much just seeing what you can get away with. It should take 10 seconds to leave. I can understand the cops taking him by the arm at that point (does anyone have a problem with that?) and then him flipping out took the situation up another couple notches.

 

Do you really think the cops wanted this? Hell no. I'm sure every cop knows that there's always a chance they're going to do their job and get fired for it if people don't like it. I feel bad for the cops for even being put in this situation.

[Dr. K]

So you really think he was leaving and the cops just decided to tackle and taser him?

 

If by "leaving" he was taking a step towards the door and then stopping to make a scene for a few minutes before considering taking another step, then that's not leaving.  That's pretty much just seeing what you can get away with.  It should take 10 seconds to leave.  I can understand the cops taking him by the arm at that point (does anyone have a problem with that?) and then him flipping out took the situation up another couple notches.

 

Do you really think the cops wanted this?  Hell no.  I'm sure every cop knows that there's always a chance they're going to do their job and get fired for it if people don't like it.  I feel bad for the cops for even being put in this situation.

840760[/snapback]

 

 

So why do they keep tasing him while he's on the ground and helpless? In handcuffs? This is the definition of unwarranted force.

 

I don't care if the cops felt provoked. I don't care if they got mad. The job of a cop in this situation is not to GET mad. He's supposed to keep his wits about him and be a PEACE KEEPER. These guys should be fired, and I hope they are.

[bartshan-83]

Like I said before, the cops have no idea why this guy won't leave the library.  They don't know if he's really a student because he doesn't have ID.  They have no idea why he's acting so irrational when asked to leave the library.  They don't know why he completely flips out when they grab his arm (most likely his upper arm) to escort him out of the building (which is pretty much exactly what you would expect the police to do when someone won't leave).  For all they know he's on drugs or carrying a weapon or just plain nuts.

840746[/snapback]

Well I mean, I think that is reading into it too much. You could say in almost any arrest that the cop has no idea what is going on with the guy and why he is resisting. But I'll sum it up...He is an @sshole college student who thought "the man" was trampling on him by following library protocol.

 

I can't possibly believe that the reason the cops tasered him WHILE he was cuffed was because they thought he posed a threat. No way! They were punishing him for not following their orders.

 

Basically this idiot student did everything he could to prolong the situation and makes things worse until the police finally did something wrong or at least something that people would latch onto to say the police were the bad guys.

840746[/snapback]

Yeah, I have no idea why he didn't get up and leave while he was saying "I said I would leave." That was retarded. But to me, that doesn't matter. If he doesn't stand up, then the cops drag his ass out.

And even if they never used the taser, you know this guy would be showing up in civil court with a neck brace talking about the racist cops who targetted him because he's Iranian.  You could do just as much damage jumping on top of the guy to get him under control, maybe more.  It's not easy to subdue and move a person who is struggling and fighting you every step of the way.  Especially when you're surrounded by a bunch of people who immediately think he's a hero for standing up to the "rent-a-cops."

840746[/snapback]

I have no doubt it is extremely more difficult to do than it looks. It's probably a huge B word to move someone who doesn't want to be moved. But tough sht. Just because it is difficult, doesn't mean they should do something that is unnecessary. They could have shot him, that would make it easier (I kid, I kid...).

 

And also no doubt that he would have sued with or without the taser. The big difference is now he most likely will win. Which sucks, because he is dickhead, but I put that blame on the cops.

 

And feeling bad for the cops being "put in this situation" doesn't jive with me. They put themselves in this situation. This never had to happen.

[KD in CA]

I begin to suspect your 99% support for the police should be 100%. Can you give me an example of an incident where you DID NOT side with the cops?  How about the Dialo incident in NYC?

840756[/snapback]

 

Was that the bathroom incident? Obviously those guys were horribly out of line. I was pleased to see them go to prison.

[SilverNRed]

So why do they keep tasing him while he's on the ground and helpless?  In handcuffs? This is the definition of unwarranted force.

840762[/snapback]

You can still do some damage if you're on the ground and in handcuffs. I don't think they tased (sp?) him because they thought he was just an a-hole who deserved it.

 

And feeling bad for the cops being "put in this situation" doesn't jive with me.  They put themselves in this situation.  This never had to happen.

840763[/snapback]

How? By becoming cops? Part of being a cop is dealing with people who hate you and can't be made to do anything except by force.

 

You're right. This didn't have to happen. The stupid little boy could have just left when asked to leave. Over and over. He wouldn't and the police were called to remove him. He ended up getting hurt. Boo hoo.