molson_golden2002 Posted November 15, 2006 Posted November 15, 2006 Who are you kidding? Like the "New Deal" is some kind of "Holy Script" that only the Belgian Monks can translate. Newsflash, bush_fumbles: Lots of us went to school. Oh, I understand the need for balance between the needs of the individual and the furthering of community. Which is why I also understand how you and those like you are screwing the next 10 generations with your "Progressive" thinking. 837319[/snapback] So just answer my question then, what Progressive era and New Deal programs would you eliminate?
KurtGodel77 Posted November 16, 2006 Posted November 16, 2006 I wondered the same thing about IRAQ. We've spent $400 billion minimum to date (most of the expenditures have been hidden in additional appropriations). Is this investment worth it? Was invading Iraq worth spending hundreds of billions of $s on the so called war on terror? Or is the $865 thousand question more important? 837276[/snapback] The $865,000 question is just for one township. If this was the sole example of a town wasting its taxpayers' money, the event would have the relative lack of importance you seem to ascribe. Instead, it's a symptom of a general disease--government waste at the local, state, and federal levels. Allocations for the Iraq War may be another symptom. If you look at the history of the Roman Empire, government money was allocated better during the days of the Empire's strength than it was in the days of decline. Corruption, graft, etc. inevitably lead to weakness and decay.
KurtGodel77 Posted November 16, 2006 Posted November 16, 2006 So just answer my question then, what Progressive era and New Deal programs would you eliminate? 838149[/snapback] The Tennessee Valley Authority would be a good start. There are a number of messed-up and expensive agricultural programs. And that's just off the top of my head. I'm sure if you really started digging, you could find a lot of stuff that needs to go.
Alaska Darin Posted November 16, 2006 Author Posted November 16, 2006 The $865,000 question is just for one township. If this was the sole example of a town wasting its taxpayers' money, the event would have the relative lack of importance you seem to ascribe. Instead, it's a symptom of a general disease--government waste at the local, state, and federal levels. Allocations for the Iraq War may be another symptom. If you look at the history of the Roman Empire, government money was allocated better during the days of the Empire's strength than it was in the days of decline. Corruption, graft, etc. inevitably lead to weakness and decay. 838501[/snapback] I hate that I actually agree with you on something. It makes me keep looking for a meteor.
molson_golden2002 Posted November 17, 2006 Posted November 17, 2006 The Tennessee Valley Authority would be a good start. There are a number of messed-up and expensive agricultural programs. And that's just off the top of my head. I'm sure if you really started digging, you could find a lot of stuff that needs to go. 838508[/snapback] LOL, Yes, I see they are 'off the top of your head.' The TVA is still running after all these years, provided flood control and electric power to Tennessee and several other states for the first time ever. Millions of people could own refigerators, electric lights and radios for first time ever. Look at the South's economic development before and after the TVA. Night and day literally. The Federal government and the New Deal laid the ground work for the economic development of the post WW2 south. That sure was a real disaster! Interesting you picked two programs that mainly help red states, you know, the 'states rights' rugged individualist states, lol. They hate the federal government alright, except for all the good thigs it does for them. Would be funny in a way to see the farmers cut off the federal tit.
molson_golden2002 Posted November 17, 2006 Posted November 17, 2006 The $865,000 question is just for one township. If this was the sole example of a town wasting its taxpayers' money, the event would have the relative lack of importance you seem to ascribe. Instead, it's a symptom of a general disease--government waste at the local, state, and federal levels. Allocations for the Iraq War may be another symptom. If you look at the history of the Roman Empire, government money was allocated better during the days of the Empire's strength than it was in the days of decline. Corruption, graft, etc. inevitably lead to weakness and decay. 838501[/snapback] You are wrong. Corruption and graft do not lead inevitably to decay, it can also lead to reform. Hell, the Roman Republic was horribly corrupt and lasted for hundreds of more years as the Empire. And the fall of Rome can hardley be called simply a result of corruption, if that's what you think you need to read up more on Roman history. The original complaint I had about this thread still stands. You can't simply say corruption is simply typical of today, its always been around. The Northern war effort in the Civil War was riddled was corruption but we still crushed the slaveholding states. I've already pointed out Boss Tweed and the other machine politicians who stole millions.
Alaska Darin Posted November 17, 2006 Author Posted November 17, 2006 The Northern war effort in the Civil War was riddled was corruption but we still crushed the slaveholding states. I've already pointed out Boss Tweed and the other machine politicians who stole millions. 839450[/snapback] "We?" Are you taking credit for something that happened over 140 years ago? I like the fact that you think corruption is going to lead to reform. It's that very ideal that feeds the burgeoning beast. I've stated before and I'll say it again here: "EVERY government program starts as a noble idea and eventually morphs into something that bears little resemblence to the original intent. Virtually every "New Deal" program currently fits that mantra, from Farm Subsidies (limosine liberals like Teddy Turner are laughing all the way to the bank with the money they steal from the middle class they supposedly care so much about) to the greatest off the book money grab in governmental history, Social Security. The fact that Democrats went from "Lockbox" to "there's not a single problem with it" in the course of a single two year election cycle should tell anyone with half a clue that something just ain't right. BTW, corruption was absolutely the reason the Roman Empire fell. Every great society in the history of the world has had it, and when those in power perfect it while keeping the ignorant occupied with empty sloganeering, ruin is not far off. But you'll surely let us know when those "Progressives" fix all the things they've been in charge of for over 80% of the last 50 years.
molson_golden2002 Posted November 17, 2006 Posted November 17, 2006 "We?" Are you taking credit for something that happened over 140 years ago? I like the fact that you think corruption is going to lead to reform. It's that very ideal that feeds the burgeoning beast. I've stated before and I'll say it again here: "EVERY government program starts as a noble idea and eventually morphs into something that bears little resemblence to the original intent. Virtually every "New Deal" program currently fits that mantra, from Farm Subsidies (limosine liberals like Teddy Turner are laughing all the way to the bank with the money they steal from the middle class they supposedly care so much about) to the greatest off the book money grab in governmental history, Social Security. The fact that Democrats went from "Lockbox" to "there's not a single problem with it" in the course of a single two year election cycle should tell anyone with half a clue that something just ain't right. BTW, corruption was absolutely the reason the Roman Empire fell. Every great society in the history of the world has had it, and when those in power perfect it while keeping the ignorant occupied with empty sloganeering, ruin is not far off. But you'll surely let us know when those "Progressives" fix all the things they've been in charge of for over 80% of the last 50 years. 839481[/snapback] Virtually every New Deal program? FDIC, SEC, TVA are all lasting reforms that survive and been very successful. Some of the temporary programs helped a lot to, giving the unemployed jobs until the depression was over. The Agricultural programs, say what you will, help rural residents inspite of the flaws of the system, nothing works perfectly, not even capitalism. Rome fell because of corruption? Please prove this if you are so sure. I'll do something you seem incapable of, explain myself. Rome simply overstretched its lines of communication. The Empire was simply too big to hold together, communication and travel being what it was in those day. The different sections of the Empire simply grew culturally apart, the army became barbarized as there wasn't enogh Romans to man the farthest reachest of the Empire. Also, the coming of greater use of cavalry made the Classic Roman legion obsolete, which is why cavalry dominated the battlefield for the thousand years after the fall of Rome. And the Progressive movement of the early 20th century--and before it really--did clean up many of the very worst abuses of government. Hell, welfare for all its negatives does make government more honest. Bet you don't know why. Just a guess.
Alaska Darin Posted November 17, 2006 Author Posted November 17, 2006 Virtually every New Deal program? FDIC, SEC, TVA are all lasting reforms that survive and been very successful. Some of the temporary programs helped a lot to, giving the unemployed jobs until the depression was over. The Agricultural programs, say what you will, help rural residents inspite of the flaws of the system, nothing works perfectly, not even capitalism. Typical liberalspeak. You clowns can always find a peanut in a pile of manure to prove wasting trillions of dollars is a good idea. Rome fell because of corruption? Please prove this if you are so sure. I'll do something you seem incapable of, explain myself. Rome simply overstretched its lines of communication. The Empire was simply too big to hold together, communication and travel being what it was in those day. The different sections of the Empire simply grew culturally apart, the army became barbarized as there wasn't enogh Romans to man the farthest reachest of the Empire. Also, the coming of greater use of cavalry made the Classic Roman legion obsolete, which is why cavalry dominated the battlefield for the thousand years after the fall of Rome. And why exactly did they have to continue expanding the empire there, Norman Einstein? You gave us examples the end result of systematic corruption and you aren't even smart enough to realize it. And the Progressive movement of the early 20th century--and before it really--did clean up many of the very worst abuses of government. Until they morph into the very thing they're supposed be correcting, which historically happens IN EVERY CASE. Don't let that little tidbit get in the way of your torch carrying, though. Hell, welfare for all its negatives does make government more honest. Bet you don't know why. Just a guess. 839502[/snapback] Gee, can't wait for this pearl of wisdom. You're right, I can't imagine what tidbit of the last wash cycle stuck in the folds of your cerebellum.
IDBillzFan Posted November 17, 2006 Posted November 17, 2006 Darin, I appreciate your concern, but I've done some quick math, and with a population of around 400,000, this only cost the citizens of St. Louis a little over $2 a piece. It's only two bucks, man. Between that and the $11 they each spent giving free healthcare to illegal immigrants, it's clear the fine people of St. Louis are getting real value for their money.
IDBillzFan Posted November 17, 2006 Posted November 17, 2006 Here's another good use of local funds. Black firefighter, 20-year vet, has joke played on him when coworkers sneak some dog food in his spaghetti. The prank was based on the fact that during pickup volleyball games, the guy urged his teammates to "feed the big dog." Story here. He sues the city for racial harrassment and is awarded $2.7M. The good news: that's just under a buck per person for the fine folks of Los Angeles. More value. Until, of course, the next guy has a trick played on him.
X. Benedict Posted November 17, 2006 Posted November 17, 2006 Here's another good use of local funds. Black firefighter, 20-year vet, has joke played on him when coworkers sneak some dog food in his spaghetti. The prank was based on the fact that during pickup volleyball games, the guy urged his teammates to "feed the big dog." Story here. He sues the city for racial harrassment and is awarded $2.7M. The good news: that's just under a buck per person for the fine folks of Los Angeles. More value. Until, of course, the next guy has a trick played on him. 839998[/snapback] LA ironically, must be one of the funniest unhumorous cities in America.
molson_golden2002 Posted November 18, 2006 Posted November 18, 2006 Typical liberalspeak. You clowns can always find a peanut in a pile of manure to prove wasting trillions of dollars is a good idea.And why exactly did they have to continue expanding the empire there, Norman Einstein? You gave us examples the end result of systematic corruption and you aren't even smart enough to realize it. Until they morph into the very thing they're supposed be correcting, which historically happens IN EVERY CASE. Don't let that little tidbit get in the way of your torch carrying, though. Gee, can't wait for this pearl of wisdom. You're right, I can't imagine what tidbit of the last wash cycle stuck in the folds of your cerebellum. 839557[/snapback] You know, if you wanted to say nothing, you simply could have resisted the urge to post this mindless drivle. The only loose connection to a set of ideas or thoughts I got out of this was that you think all government bad, which I disagree with strongly, government is a positive force in this society. I also see you know nothing about Roman history and probably history in general if the title of this thread is any indication.
Alaska Darin Posted November 18, 2006 Author Posted November 18, 2006 You know, if you wanted to say nothing, you simply could have resisted the urge to post this mindless drivle. Uh, thanks hypocrite. The only loose connection to a set of ideas or thoughts I got out of this was that you think all government bad, which I disagree with strongly, government is a positive force in this society. Sure, the more of it you liberals can get the better. Right? Government is a necessary evil and that's EXACTLY what it is. Because of that, a very tight leash should be kept on the size and scope of it. I know this is mindboggling for you because you see it as something it isn't and will never be. That's OK, your kind has been ruining societies since the dawn of man while trumpeting their efforts as "progressive." I also see you know nothing about Roman history and probably history in general if the title of this thread is any indication. 840596[/snapback] I'm crushed that I won't ever make it into your little circle of intellectuals.
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